@Tom

By now, through feedback from myself and other users you should be aware you can create and [STORE] (save) a Performance that will respond to general MIDI files the way you would want (and see other keyboards at Guitar Center doing). When you turn on your keyboard, this Performance is likely not going to load by default. However, you can also program system settings (which are saved) to recall this Performance. I believe the current firmware (1.6) will not load a specific Performance by default - the best you can do currently is set your Montage to power-on default to the Live Set and also assign your new Performance to a slot in the first page of your Live Set - then you would have just "one click" required before playing the general MIDI file.

From the announcements, my understanding is the version 2.0 firmware allows for loading a specific Performance on power-on. Therefore, as of this posting, there are two days to wait to realize Montage functioning identical to other keyboards with respect to the power-on ability to play your general MIDI files correctly.

Sladjan wrote:

Stefan wrote:
That’s really easy. Just put the Montage in the single channel mode and everything is playing from the other keyboard as from the Montage. I do the same using a Nord Piano as a controller.

With my fullest respect to whatever you try to achieve with this, I don't see why would anybody buy an additional keyboard to control the same sounds which he could already play on the Montage.

My understanding is that this is what Tom wanted to achieve: use a second keyboard to not wear down his Montage while practicing. That's what I was trying to address. In my case it's different: I have the Montage 6 because it is more compact and it has synth action. That's what I need. However I also like to play the Montage from a Piano action. That's what I can do when using my Nord as a controller. So I have the best of both worlds. Synth action for synth sounds, Piano action for Piano sounds. And I did not buy the Nord for that purpose. I had it long before the Montage.

Sladjan wrote:

Stefan wrote:The problem only arises when you try to do more complex things like controlling a piano with 2 or more parts from a remote keyboard and another sound with two or more parts from the Montage. And similar things...

That's exactly the problem here. 30 years after the multitimbral Korg M1 (and all others following) we suddenly have a flagship keyboard from a company with fixed midi channels and an almost impossible integration for midi controlling purposes without a computer. That's sad.

It should be clear from what I wrote above that I fully agree. However there is a difference between something which is sad and something which violates some spec. I was just pointing out that it is not violating the spec.

Sladjan wrote:

Stefan wrote:Because who knows maybe you are right? Then I can hopefully return my 3 year old Nord Piano and get a full refund? That would be cool!

What's the point in comparing apples to oranges here? You are comparing a bicycle to a spaceship. I don't see the point in doing that. Yes, Tom has some facts wrong. But these topic is about fixed midi channels an absolute innovation in this price and keyboard category with absolutely no benefit for the end user.

I am reasonably sure that the MIDI spec does not have a special chapter for spaceship (or flagship) synthesizers and other synthesizers. Again, I agree that I would like to see configurable MIDI in channels. However not having them is no grounds for legal action. That's what I try to point out. And this is argument is supported by the fact that if that was the case many other MIDI instruments would then also have the same problem. Like my Nord and Ensoniq keyboards. And when I bought it 30 years ago the Ensoniq was really of the spaceship class. Both from the point of view of sound and the point of view of price. Still is in some aspects 😉 ...

My point is: the Nord Piano is a simple bitimbral stage piano. Its midi is limited and absolutely not comparable to a high class/top level (if flagship is confusing as a term) 16 part timbral synth. Sure, nobody and nothing prevents you to connect the Nord Piano to the Montage 6, but I personally don't see a point in doing that. I'd rather play piano on the nord piano and play other parts on the Montage 6 instead of mirroring the performances from a 61 keyboard to a 88 one, but that's just me.
And sure, I'm not talking about legal actions here nor do I think that we need to take every single word spoken here to serious. The point is very clear: Montage has a hard to understand limitation regarding midi and this is clearly and vocal communicated on every forum out there as soon as somebody ask for a buying advice.

Well, I have lot of reasons for using the Nord as the controller:

• By now I prefer the Montage Piano over the Nord so the Nord is only a controller by now for me (and that's totally personal taste!).
• The Nord has a lot of limitations in terms of performance control (yes the Montage is not the only board with annoying limitations. For example I cannot have independent transpose for Piano and Synth parts).
• In many cases I layer more sounds on top of the Piano. That would require switching the Nord and Montage together and require me to do more programming. Also I can use the Superknob for controlling the relative volumes etc.
• I can switch Montage performances from the Ipad Songbook+, but I cannot easily switch the Nord together with the Montage sounds (I can but it requires going through some hoops).
• Using sounds from both the Montage and the Nord requires a mixer. Or requires to go from the Nord into the Montage through the analog in. With OS 2.0 that might be a viable option, before it was working only so so because there was no global setting for the analog in. So the sound of the Nord changed sometimes with the performance selected on the Montage.
• I can use the Montage alone or in combination with the Nord as a controller without any difference in sounds and functionality. So for band rehearsals I only take the Montage because it is less carrying and less time for setup, for gigs I sometimes use both, when space permits etc.

Apart from that, yes, I think we both agree.

Hello.

From the announcements, my understanding is the version 2.0 firmware allows for loading a specific Performance on power-on. Therefore, as of this posting, there are two days to wait to realize Montage functioning identical to other keyboards with respect to the power-on ability to play your general MIDI files correctly.

To be clear OS 2.00 alow you to select a Live set slot when you power up your Montage.
You do not select a performance, you select a Live set.
When the montage is powered on the Live set you have select, just press "Performance" button to be in performance mode 😉

You need of course to select Power on Mode "Live set".

If you select Power on Mode "Performance" the Montage will power up on CFX + FM EP. performance.

About midi channel, for my using witch is more stage using, at Montage release, it disturb me a little bit to cannot select the midi channel for each part like i was doing on Motif XF.

After two month of using and clearly understanding the benefit of using Montage like this in MIDI I/O Multi control, when it's need by my Motif XF8 too, i will not come back to the midi channel input selection.

Before i was using an impulse keyboard control 61 with my XF8, 4 FC7 pedals to control by expression the layers/split on the same midi channel to increase one part when decrease one other so using sometimes two foot in the same time, editing witch one receive FC1, the other FC2, ....when i think of this now, it's that i found crazy.

Now with the Montage 7 and XF8, i'm just using one pedal to control Super Knob, each part on he's midi channel, no problem of layers/split receiving volume or other midi message on the same midi channel, i can use Super Knob, i can use one knob unlink to Super knob, i can use faders for volume ,i can use the SSS with live set changing thru foot control, i can use scene memory .... it's clearly better to my taste.

I just need to change my workflow at the start and now i have more than 100 performances, all at 8 parts maximum (to share with other users who do not have two keyboards) and all is working fine like this for me.

Thanks for clearing up the details - pre-release information is slim so some inference is needed. Not so with the beta-testers.

Still (@Tom) you will be able to load any Performance at boot-up assuming you follow my "in the meantime" advice which included defaulting to Live Set - then, when V2.0 arrives, add the default Live Set slot value which contains your "Play GM MIDI" Performance.

Joel wrote:

I just need to change my workflow at the start and now i have more than 100 performances, all at 8 parts maximum (to share with other users who do not have two keyboards) and all is working fine like this for me.

I hope that Yamaha understands that changing the workflow is not always a solution!

My Yamaha Montage 6 is for live use, on top of a Nord Stage (2 external midi-channels available).
My Montage controls the Nord, because the Montage has user-friendly Live Sets. And it is on top of my set-up, so it is easy to reach.
So I need to use the Montage in Multi-mode.

I also need Multi-mode, because I want to create splits and/or layers on the Montage to play 'parts' (organ/synth) of my Nord Stage (or other midi equipment).

Because it still is not possible to set the receive channel of each part on the Yamaha Montage, I only can play two parts together on my Nord Stage.
But often two parts is not enough... I have to make a lot of concessions.

So Yamaha, please fix the midi implementation, so we can freely choose the receive channel of each part!

Hi Jeroen, I am most probably missing something. But it seems to me that your main purpose is to control other synths from the Montage. If I got that right, then this is much easier: The Montage is totally capable of sending on configurable MIDI channels. You just have to switch to the Zone Master mode. Once you are in that mode you can configure the send channel per zone. You have 8 zones available. For each zone you can configure the key range, the transpose, the octave, a program change and bank to be sent when the performance is selected. You can also send volume and pan messages to the connected MIDI equipment. And you can configure what controls should be sent to the connected unit. As a master keyboard Montage is very flexible... See the reference manual for details.

Hi Stefan,

I know. I use the Zone Master mode.

But I also want to play the sounds of the Montage on my other keyboard.

And if I can not change the midi channel per part, I can only play 2 parts of a performance on my other keyboard....

Okay, as I said, I was probably missing something. Just wanted to be sure you did not miss the Zone Master.

Hi, two zone it's limited control zone for a keyboard, if Nord provide 4 zones it will be better.

Joel wrote:

Hi, two zone it's limited control zone for a keyboard, if Nord provide 4 zones it will be better.

Oh come on, that's nonsense. So, other keyboards have to repair and make it up for what's the montage missing. The problem is a little more complex than just having 2, 4 or 16 zones on the midi controller. If you want to control the montage parts from an external keyboard, not only do you need freely assignable zones on a controller, you also need a lot of user memory locations to save song based settings because multiple zones on an external controller also means that you have to program the split and layer parts on that controller instead of on the montage.
I'm talking generally and not to you personally, but let us just end with this cocky attitude about how we need a better external controller. I'm playing for 25 years with all kind of keyboards. I'm open to learn new things, so tell me, what other keyboard which is 8 or 16 part multitimbral has or had fixed midi channels on its zones?

Hi sladjan, do not worry, i'm not taking for myself 😉
You explain your opinion, i explain mine.

I have work several years with layering parts on same midi channel with limitation that it bring for Motif ES/XS/XF (i have explain limitation on my other tread) and i will not come back to this, for me the benefit of keyboard control on Montage and managing parts by midi channel is better, like i use a Motif XF with 8 zone and 128 master memory that's really great.

Some users claim that they cannot use Montage like they want with their actual gear, i can understand that, they will not want to buy another keyboard control, but if Yamaha come back to midi channel selective and need to remove keyboard control for this, i will claim to come back. on actual situation.

If they can do it without removing keyboard control and Motion control managing like it work now why not on a third midi mode.

To my opinion, keyboard with less than 4 zone and 100 memory slot to manage control is not great to control one other keyboard, i have a novation impulse 61 that i was using with the Motif Xf8 before the Montage, 20 templates for memory, not enough, if i need to use it with montage i will not claim about montage, i will claim about template memory, but it's only my opinion for my using 😉

Well clearly there are many sides to this debate ........BUT many Montage owners still need this ability to freely change Midi receive channels per part as part of a Multi Keyboard Rig and although this is very clear why at Montage present state of evolution this would not be a practical option with in the current Multi Midi Mode when understanding the argumentl.....then would we not think the logical solution would be the introduction of a 3rd Midi Mode (let's call it "Midi+" for the purposes of this discussion) with the reasonable expectation and understanding that this 3rd option (Midi+) where you could freely change Midi receive channels per part would probably mean the temporary suspension of some of the functionality allowed while in the other two Midi Modes (Single & Multi)...if this could be introduced in some way (3rd Midi Mode "Midi+") with a future update I'm sure people would accept some reduced functionality when understanding the argument put forward by Yamaha....but at least this would allow another option with a more conventional method of implementing Midi receive channels per part freely in a more traditional Midi setup with a Multi Keyboard Rig... and of course when this functionality is not required we can then switch back to a Single or Multi Midi Mode accordingly any time we whish.....So let's not assassinate the thinking behind the motivation that would be required to allow a solution to this current issue by procrastinating just because we may feel we would personally never use this new needed 3rd option ... I don't see the problem for Yamaha to explore the possibility to implement this 3rd option (Midi+) considering what lies underneath the hood of Montage..... what now remains to be seen is a plausible and logical explanation why this cannot be done and so far I am struggling to understand this despite some of the other voices in this debate.
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+1 I'm a HEAVY MIDI user- Love the Montage and sounds and FM and but allow FULL as far as MIDI control of EACH part (all of them - local or remote) and by channel(s) of users choosing.