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Midi problem in complex setup over RTP

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Posts: 111
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We run ableton for backing tracks during our live performance, with program changes sent via MioXM to Montage, CP4, Virus TI, Axe FX, SPDSX over RTP network. Each instrument has it's own network. We use screen sharing and multiple Dante channels over the same network cable. Also timecode for lighting is on Dante.
Everything goes perfect until a moment in the timeline where the Montage gets set to it's initial preset, being CFX+EP. At this moment there is no program change programmed. The only thing that is happening at that moment is midi for Axe FX (which is routed to it's own RTP network), some audio tracks and Timecode. I tried Midi monitor and it's all correct. No unwanted midi messages.
Anyone got an idea why the Montage gets initialized? Or whatever is happening to it? Could it be the high frequency timecode that does something to it? Or should I try a different fixed IP adres for the MioXM? I'm out of ideas.
Tnx guys!

 
Posted : 02/05/2022 9:24 am
Jason
Posts: 8259
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Is the Montage connected via the DIN ports on the MioXM?

If you think it's the timecode - why not filter that out using MioXM's setup software? (time code quarter frame).

https://www.iconnectivity.com/auracle-x-filter-remap

It might help to share your Auracle setup of the MioXM although this starts to get, as you say in your title, "complex" due to having to run through more than just Montage-facing setup. Since something is not working right, we cannot start with an assumption that anything is correct. At least not (for me) remotely without much configuration details.

Also, your MIDI monitoring - assuming you're using one of the DIN ports - have you placed a monitor on that individual DIN port normally connected to Montage (Montage doesn't have to be plugged in) to see the traffic on that specific port? You may look for MIDI reset. This is commonly filtered out from MIDI monitoring software so you'd have to ensure your MIDI monitor itself isn't filtering this message. Be sure to monitor the MIDI OUT that would be going to Montage.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 02/05/2022 4:07 pm
Posts: 111
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Topic starter
 

Hi Jason,

Tnx for your reply. The Montage is connected via USB midi.
The timecode is audio timecode, not midi. So it does not pass through the MioXM.

Our backline is loaded in the truck so it's not easy to have access. ':-) I'll leave for the venue a little bit earlier this afternoon so I can check it. I will definitely check auracle for the midi routing. No unnecessary connections...

Tnx! Fingers crossed 🙂

 
Posted : 05/05/2022 12:45 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

I'm not too familiar with MioXM but it looked like the USB connection was intended to hook to the DAW which I assume is intended as source for the clocks. It's a USB Type B connection so I'm guessing you're connecting that to Montage's USB TO DEVICE port.

Myself, I'm just a user - knowing the development of Montage and when features were introduced I would (for myself) connect through the DIN connector the MioXM because the USB TO DEVICE MIDI implementation is new and I tend to be trailing edge in adopting updates/new features/etc.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 05/05/2022 4:17 pm
Posts: 111
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

We found the problem! Actually, our roadie did. He hands over the keytar (AX-synth) to our lead singer but with the TX button set to Off to not make any accidental sounds. When our singer wants to play, he first has to press the TX button. This action sends a Program change value "1" on ch 5. The keytar plays the MODX which is on ch 5. The Montage is on channel 4, but still it changes to CFX+EP when the TX button is pressed. I solved it by unrouting the keytar to the montage in MioXM, but is still seems weird to me why the Montage changes preset when the keytar sends on a different midi ch.

Anyway, glad it's solved!
Tnx guys!

 
Posted : 06/05/2022 9:16 am
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

As hinted at earlier, to diagnose would mean to look at a lot of things not specified. Like a keytar that has routing access to Montage when it doesn't need the routing. Glad you got that fixed.

There are PC changes that line up with the receive channel of the Part (when in Montage's Multi-Channel mode) and then there are PC changes that change the entire Performance (called "multi part" changes).

I'm not sure if your Montage is in single/hybrid or multi channel MIDI mode. That can have an impact. I'm also not sure upon power-on what the Montage is primed to do (multi vs single part changes) when just a PC is sent. I could test here but I also wonder if this can be a function of other settings or states.

Also, I'm not sure if Montage's MIDI stream prior to the PC coming in had been sent MSB/LSB messages. These can alter the "single" (one Part at a time) vs "multi" (entire Performance) story.

On the surface, everything is making sense to me even without knowing all of the details. If you really wanted to know - you could do that.

Also, a MIDI monitor as suggested previously would have picked up on the PC coming in that caused the issue and with a long enough buffer would tell you about previous MSB/LSB too.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 06/05/2022 8:43 pm
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