Does anyone have numbers? Out of curiosity I measured the keys on my XS8:

• Space between black keys*: 0.8125" (20.6375mm)
• Space around black keys**: 1.375" (34.925mm)
• Octave***: 6.5" (165.1mm)

Apologies for the funny units; I'm sure that Yamaha measures everything in millimeters but I've embarrassingly discovered that I lack a metric measurement tool. I oughtta get a nice caliper.

Being that one major reason for my purchasing this keyboard 10 years ago was to get as close an approximation to a grand piano's keybed as I could afford, this thread made me curious and I did some searching. I found here this quote from a Steinway restoration specialist:

You are correct, 100 year old piano keys will vary slightly in width. Some of that is the original tooling and cutting (piano keys are sliced like bread from one piece of material) and some of the variance can be from wear. The keys at the far ends of the keyboard will be a good bit wider on an older, heavily played instrument than the keys in the middle of the keyboard, where the most playing occurs.

No standard width. You can measure many different pianos, and while they will all be within a fairly standard range, you will see differences. Same goes for the sharps.

This also holds true for many other piano dimensions. Keytop thickness, head length (distance from the player's end of the natural key to the cutout for the sharp), tail length, height of the keytop off the floor, height of the pedals off the floor, etc.

I realize there is a great difference between the design of a piano-like keybed and a synth-action keybed (the subject of this thread), but it was earlier asserted that even the Montage 8 features a tight keybed.

Given the variation that exists from piano to piano and synth to synth, I'm surprised that exact measurements of key spacing aren't made available in technical specifications. I'd love to do, say, a six-way comparison between Montage 6 and 8, Kronos 61 and 88, Yamaha CFX, and a Steinway Model-D. Has anyone made a keyboard-centric wiki yet?

*For each of these measurements I used the topmost (narrowest) width of the black keys, which are tapered
**Measured from left edge C# to right edge of D#
***Measured from left edge of C4 to left edge of C5

Please.
Let's Not Bring any 88 key keyboard or Real piano into this.
Because. They are not relevant to the problem at all.
It is About. The EXTREME(comparatively). Tight Spacing of the Key-Bed's of the Montage 6/7.
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Answer to another 2 questions.
Yes People With Long Thin Fingers. Have a Much Easier time. With the Extremely Tight Key Spacing. But It Still Causes Them a few problems.
1. When Switching Keyboards.( 2 A Korg 4 Example. ) Muscle Memory tells you. The keys are not where You expect them to be.
2. M6/M7 For some Complex Chords. And Leads. Even people with Piano Hands. There is a Problem(s). And Besides The one poster above. I Have heard this From a number of Players. With 'Piano Hands'. Some of Who I consider Great players.(And I rarely use that word.).
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When I see something that is/appears Nonsensical. My mind. Automatically Tries and Tries. To find a Logical. Why? Answer(That is what I did 4 a Living. Solve Almost impossible problems.). To me(and we are talking Months of Thought on and off. To this exact problem). There is No Sensible or logical Reasoning Behind it. (Yes there is no. "Set in Stone" Standard 4 Keybeds. But there has always been an unwritten 1/2" Standard for Key-Beds(76 Keys). Historically. This has Always Been. With All Major Brands. Within 1/2 inch Max Diff. For the entire key-bed width.)
1 of my Conclusions. Is Aesthetics! Drove this decision/Mistake. And If so? How in the H%ll Did That overrule? All Common sense?
We are Talking about. Adding 1" to 1&1/2 inches. To the entire width of each of the M6(1/2" each end) & M7(3/4" each end) Respectively.
Not 1 player Would have Cared about That. IMHO.

Seems to me that some guys here (not all, of course) would rather waste time arguing in forums than playing and creating music.

After all that SHOULD be the most important thing to do!

So I'm out of this thread, exactly as Bad Mister has done, which is the most sensible thing to do.

Enjoy your key spacing measurements 😉

It is really sad to see how immature some react to other peoples complains. If one can't stand it, don't participate in forums. With such an attitude like "go and make some music instead of..." we can immediately close any forum which is dedicated to an instrument.

Let me say First of all.
I almost Never post on Forums. I Visit them to find answers and. Read What I was looking for.
And Leave. And I did not mean 4 this to turn into this Complaint Post.( I had Already Complained to Yamaha. As High up as I could Get)
Because I do not want to get into Deep discussions and waste Time.
And There is always the problem. Of members that are Trolls.
Except 4 this Forum. Which I find To be Excellent. In general Forums Are My last source.
And To Bad Mister
I really only wanted a photo. Of the Underside of the M6 Keybed.
So I can see. If I can make the adjustments at all. It might only give me another 1/64th per key of an inch spacing. But Where the montage 6 is concerned. That is a lot.
You can send it to my Forum account email. If You do not want it published. I just want to play the Keyboard I bought. And Not have to Use a Controller on a $3000 Keyboard.
That I consider. 1 of the .The Best Keyboards Ever made.(Except 4 the key spacing.) I would even Lose one of the end Keys. If that is what it took.
Yes That is how desperate I am. To make whatever. Small correction. I can to the Key-Bed.

Sorry, I don't have a photo of the keybed, but you can contact Yamaha Service, they should be able to help you or at least steer you in the right direction.

To Bad Mister
Thanks
I did contact Support.
BTW
And I am Just Curious.
They did not make the mistake of. Putting this same Keybed in the Genos? Did They?

So actually if you don't have large hands - a Yamaha keyboard is a plus...

Just trying to look at the positive, lol 🙂

Ignoring the customer experience, small keys have several benefits to a manufacturer.

Less material is less weight.
Less material is less cost.
Similar impact on packaging.
Less weight and size puts more keyboards in a unit area for shipping - lower shipping costs.

Bringing in the customer:

Some percentage of customers may prefer to reach a wider span of keys. Often design decisions will satisfy one group while alienating another.

I do think a synth is different than a (EDIT:) piano which opens the door for redefining the key dimensions relative to whatever is considered the standard size for an acoustic piano. However, I also see the argument for placing a keyboard in an ecosystem of others and wanting the keys to line up from tier to tier or right-hand keyboard to left-hand keyboard (same tier, 2+ boards). There is discrepancy across the board - although perhaps Yamaha is "way out" relatively - I don't have much experience in this department. Often you run into situations where the set of trade-offs would leave, say Yamaha, feeling the other keyboards should change their keybeds to match Yamaha since the research they have shows the size is optimal. Who knows.

When this is a problem to your playing - the solution (with expense) would be to find MIDI controllers that fit your dimensions better. This isn't optimal (having one keyboard for native controllers and one for just the black/whites) - but at least is an available option. I can understand not wanting to have to deal with this -- because I wouldn't -- but if you like the sound and features of a keyboard - maybe you marry a "better" keybed externally.

Bad Mister
Thank you
The Yamaha Support Head. Just replied. And Said it Was not Possible.
That what I saw were not Key adjustment slots.:(
BTW
Did They use the Montage keybed in the Genos?

If a MIDI Controller Exists. That has a Great Keybed. I have not found one. And I have owned MANY!
The old Novation SL mk I. Had a Great Fartar Keybed. They are very old and very hard to find. ( And I can not rely on a keybed that old)
There was supposed to be 1 that was Great. But it was Crowd Funded. And Really did not go anywhere. And Cost $700.
So then we get into Relying on a Non-Brand. No thanks.
These days Most of the Keybeds are just Crap. Except the Montage, Genos, PA4X and Some other smaller brand(S) I can not think of at the moment.
Roland and Korg.
Have Cheapened. Their Key-beds. To The Grade of Cheap crap. While, Korg's PA3X/PA4X Has a very good Fartar keybed.
While the Kronos($3700.00) Feels really cheap.
Most of the MIDI Controllers. Are about Control and not quality keybeds.
NI Uses the Fartar name. 4 the Kontrol II. Like it is Gold. But That Keybed. Is the Lowest grade in the Fartar line.
It is actually Getting to the point. That The top Brands. Should Offer Key-Bed options. Yes. Yamaha. Offer me a 60/74 key Correctly spaced keybed. And I would buy it over a 61/76 key. Korg Offer Your Keybed. or A Great Fartar 4 more $.
Roland. U are so into cutting corners. I do not think there is Any hope 4 You. We now call Roland. A toy company. It would make U sick. To know the Corners they cut on the JP-80 and The FA series Keybeds.
As far as the Montage 6/7 goes. Once You get past that first feeling of. Really Light.
It is the most sensitive Dynamics out there. And Once You have played it 4 a while. Feels just Great.
It is just the Extreme Tight Spacing. That is the problem.
But Because it is 1 of the Greatest Keyboards Ever made. I now Have my 2nd. one.(First one was a M7 and It is tighter spaced than the M6.)

I agree that the Montage 6/7 has one of the finest keybeds. At least, I like it and prefer it to others.
However, saying that the Kronos or the JP80 have cheap keybeds is a "littlebit" exaggerated. The Kronos keybed feels lighter to the one on the Montage, however, a lot of people like it. It is different compared to the Montage but certainly not cheap and a result of cutting costs.
Regarding the Roland JP80, I owned it almost three years and it is definitely one of the finest semiweighted keybeds out there. I have no idea how one comes to the conclusion that it is cheap. It has even metal sides compared to the plastic ends on the Montage. The Fa06 from Roland has a cheap keybed. So has the MoXF. There is no point in comparing apples (high budget Montage) to oranges (low budget Fa06).

Well I have to agree with the general theme of this thread... so after using a korg PA3x/4x for 6 years as a Master Keyboard and now playing Montage 7 using midi through the korg keybed in this configuration then I do also wonder why Roland and Yamaha make such inferior keybeds in comparison... when you have spent time with the korg keybed this soon becomes apparent and I'm only taking about the attributes and differences between TopLine keyboards with synth action keybeds... I do believe there is a stong case to be considered here with any study and comparisons...this is a bit like hurling a motorbike round a race track at 150 mph with the wrong tyres on ...it all about the feel and no matter how good the bike the wrong tyres stutter the performance and a keybed action in this regard is no different...... still loving the montage and finding this forum in general a very helpful read indeed .

To Sladjan
This is Y I dislike forums.
You did not read that Post at all.
It was about Keybeds in General and Trying to find Quality these days.
I did not Compare anything.
I said the Kronos. Felt Cheap. And It does.
The rolands and Yamahas. I have seen inside. And Older Korgs.(M3)
Now compared to the Fantom G. They Cut corners on the JP-80 key-bed. And that is What I said. CUT CORNERS.
The FA series. Is a insult to key-beds period.
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The Yamaha's I have seen in side of. Are Top notch.(And BTW. The rest of the inside of a montage. Is Built like a Tank. Very Impressed with the care They put into Component safety.)
*The Montage 6/7. Has What I call. 'Constant Consistent Resistance' Both Up and down. This Is what I look for in a keybed. It is Very similar to a Great Piano. Is it Truly 'Constant Consistent Resistance'. Well no. Nothing is perfect. But The Human body. Can only discern feel. Up to a point. And It is Close enough. Not To be able to Tell as a Human.
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Midi Keyboards are in general a waste(KeyBed wise). Unless U order a Fartar brand MIDI Controller. Which. Controller wise. Does not meet my Controller Needs.
Anyway
I have spent enough time on this. I need to get back to. My left hand Practicing. New finger formations. So I can just Play The $3000 Keyboard I bought.
And Thanks To Bad Mister. Thanks 4 the pointers. And Thanks to The others. That Truly understood this problem with key spacing.

To Simon
The Korg PA3X/PA4x. Have Near or top end FARTAR Key-Beds. Not a Korg Keybed.
the question should be. Why korg. Put a Very Cheap feeling Keybed. In the Kronos. (Not really saying it is cheaply made.). When they use Fartar key-beds anyway.
You called out Yamaha on Cheap Keybeds. No. They Are Top grade Keybeds. In there top end Products. They just have a. Very different feel than U are Used to. Roland is Hopeless.
Why is only Fartar. Mentioned in My posts. Well They sort of are the only major 3rd. party. High Quality Key-Bed maker. There is.
That is about All they do.