Hi Ron, I too hope it will be the latter but Yamahas whole purpose in life is to make money so they will never bring out the perfect keyboard. They have to develop new concepts to keep sales going. I think they'll have a job to improve on the Tyros 5 and the Montage but no doubt they'll be scanning the suggestions for the wish lists of players. The 2 keyboards I've mentioned will be my last Yamaha keyboards so I'm hoping operating system updates and further sound sets from Peter Krishker will satisfy my needs.
Cheers
Peter

Peter wrote:

.... but Yamahas whole purpose in life is to make money so they will never bring out the perfect keyboard. ....

Interesting. Do you suppose that they also do the same thing with their flutes? Bassoons? Electronic drums? Acoustic guitars?

Is Apple's whole purpose in life to make money so they will never bring out the perfect cell phone?
Is Kellogg's whole purpose in life to make money so they will never bring out the perfect cereal?
Is Toyota's whole purpose in life to make money so they will never bring out the perfect automobile?

I'm curious how you arrive at that conclusion given that no two people agree on what is the perfect anything?
What IS the perfect keyboard?

Hello Kiwi - the 'Perfect Keyboard' is one that does everything I want just by thinking it - and doesn't cost me anything ... 🙂

The purpose of a company is to make money, the case of apple is apart because of Steve jobs direction, making money for sure but design was at the first place and all the fabric chain was at the request of the designer, this have been unique in the business history at this scale level.
For me, montage is the link between the ancient and new world, so it will give birth to a new generation of synth and update firmware will not be sufficient for following the path of the montage journey. In near future( if there is one) the frontier between hardware synth and software synth will vanish. Synths will have 3d holographic screens and you wil be able to speak, or just thinking for interact with them.

Kiwi wrote:
Is Apple's whole purpose in life to make money so they will never bring out the perfect cell phone?

Every iPhone is *perfect^, but each gen of iPhone is even more perfect.
"This one comes in GOLD! I MUST UPGRADE" :p

While we're getting deep in the weeds, consider this:
Humans are inherently imperfect, so a perfect human is one that has imperfections. It's what gives us character and individuality. If we were perfect we wouldn't be perfect. I think the same holds true for keyboards, or any instrument for that matter.

Kiwi wrote:
What IS the perfect keyboard?

Rod wrote:

Hello Kiwi - the 'Perfect Keyboard' is one that does everything I want just by thinking it - and doesn't cost me anything ... 🙂

Dammit Rod! Leave it to you to come up with a good answer to the question! 😉

manolo wrote:

Kiwi wrote:
What IS the perfect keyboard?

Hmmmm..
Way ovepriced @ $6999
It was hard to upgrade.
The included instruments were largely freeware.

If it were perfect, it would still be manufactured.
It was only 61 key. (XXL)

Why I Quit Open Labs

there you go:

and still available. even the xs rack.

Hi Kiwi, you're comparing apples with pears, the technology behind synths is still evolving, those instruments are centuries old.
Everyones got a different opinion on what makes the perfect keyboard - it depends on what you use it for as a starter
Your Kellogs example is one where the sales are now the result of perfecting their products, marketing them successfully and little competition.
I just hope that Yamaha don't resort to gimmicks to maintain their share of a highly competitive market
Peter

I think the Montage is a one off board because the need and subsequent market for hardware Romplers among modern producers is really getting smaller. They just do not use them and prefer to work almost exclusively ‘in the box’ using software VST libraries etc. Spectrasonic just released a really great piano library that both Korg and Yamaha hardware units are unlikely to be able to compete with (especially when you factor in cost) and when you couple that with the rapid development of computer hardware components you can really see the direction of where the true profits lie – i.e software and faster CPU’s. Each year PC’s are being produced that are more powerful, faster, smaller and able to run greater instances of complex emulations and libraries and this trend will continue until most of us are working ‘completely in the box’.

The Montage (to me) is not a board that has tried to make itself future proof and this will likely effect sales over the next 12 months when people become more familiar with what the board can actually do from a production point of view in terms of integrating within a studio setup in comparison to the benefits and workflows of PC based software. So I would be very surprised if Yamaha were to look at sales and think it worth further investing in a medium that is becoming rapidly outdated for modern producers. Perhaps the next incarnation will be a rack module which in all honesty I kind of think the Montage is currently more suited to being. I mean ask yourself honestly – Does this need to be a synth with keys or would it be more practical as a rack module working within a studio set up ? It’s pretty much a Motif and many will argue that it is still a stellar board. The older consumers (40 – 60 years) would possibly continue to support the franchise of hardware boards as well as gigging musicians but the newer generation of producers who are raised on laptops and software would perhaps see little incentive to invest in expensive hardware that only really has the studio benefit / advantage of CPU processing reduction.

My 2 cents

Good points Tyron. Very true in regards to how the market/consumers respond to this board within the upcoming months/year, including what 3rd party support evolves. I fall into the "older consumers (40-60yrs)" category you stated, as well as a gigging musician, so I definitely appreciate that Yamaha made this board with the "players/performers" focus & demographic in mind. With this concept in mind, the Montage would fall into this niche category... as opposed to a "do-everything, all-in-one workstation approach. It will be interesting if Yamaha "morphs" the montage back to what the masses dictate, or if they hold fast in their original concept development. Should be interesting!

Tyron wrote:
The Montage is pretty much a Motif

don´t be silly. motif´s integrated sampling sequencer allows you to record audio into a song. try that with a montage. montage only has a built-in recorder which lacks basic sequencer functions. yamaha took too many features out. unfortunately the montage is only a stripped-down version of the xf. i´m sorry to say this, but the xf wins hands down, feature-wise.

Peter wrote:

Hi Kiwi, you're comparing apples with pears, the technology behind synths is still evolving, those instruments are centuries old.
Everyones got a different opinion on what makes the perfect keyboard - it depends on what you use it for as a starter.

Actually, the technology isn't evolving as much as the direction of what people are using them for is always changing. As evidenced by FM having fallen out of favor but is now enjoying a renaissance. Boutique....Eurorack....demands for analog....all very fad like in nature. The technology is the same, it's the packaging an marketing that changes.
Apples with pears? The point is, there will never be a perfect keyboard.

Peter wrote:
Your Kellog's example is one where the sales are now the result of perfecting their products, marketing them successfully and little competition.

Hmmm...General Mills, Post, Quaker Oats, Nestle? That's not competition for Kellogg's? Not to mention the smaller companies hawking "organic", "low gluten", "low sodium", "fiber rich", etc.
I assure you that the cereal industry is every bit as competitive as the synthesizer/electric keyboard industry.

Peter wrote:
I just hope that Yamaha don't resort to gimmicks to maintain their share of a highly competitive market

Peter

Gimmicks such as...?