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Montage Connect as Standalone

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Rod
 Rod
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Hello Jason et al - I do not believe that anyone has ever attempted to install Montage Connect as a Standalone, which is what I am now doing - mainly to be able to process X7B files. Thank you Jason for your valiant efforts to help me, but I'm afraid just substituting my hard drive for Cubase simply doesn't work. However, I have installed Montage Connect on my desktop computer running Windows 10 Home Premium, which does not have Cubase or any other such program installed.

By using 'Recall' on the Connect, I have successfully transferred the CFX + FM EP to the Connect - so it must be installed correctly.That is as far as I can get. The article written for it simply says 'I can now save this in the Sound Browser part of the Connect plug-in for instant recall'. Sound Browser is part of Cubase, so this instruction has no relevance to me. Unfortunately, nothing more is said.

So, to repeat a question which seems vital to me - in the 'Load' and 'Save' windows of the Connect, I see only the 'C' and 'D' drives of my computer - plus any USBs that happen to be plugged in. But no Montage. Should the Montage show up there as a USB drive? If not, how do I load or save anything to and from it?

I have started this as a new thread because of the 'Standalone' element, which it is claimed that Montage Connect can be - I just would like to know how?

 
Posted : 27/11/2016 5:56 pm
Jason
Posts: 8238
Illustrious Member
 

Montage doesn't have to be selected because you have one Montage. Not sure if the software supports multiple Montages - but you may see a selection if you had multiple Montage units plugged into your computer.

Any time you save or load an .X7B - this is going to grab the edit buffer from Montage and save it to your storage media (your computer's HDD, USB stick, maybe network drive - or any place you can store a file - Montage connect doesn't know where you want to save things - so it asks you); or it will take a saved .X7B from your storage media on your computer and stuff it into the edit buffer of Montage.

There's no Montage to select because it knows and sees Montage there I'm assuming when the "online" button is lit. I don't have the software installed - but the software would tell you loudly if it didn't recognize a connected Montage.

Any time you import a song, it's going to grab a .MID file from the Montage and save it to your computer's media. Drag and drop is supported, so you can have your storage media "Windows Explorer" window open (go to "My PC" and select any drive/USB stick/etc. that you can write to - this opens a window with the existing files on that media and directories - you can traverse through directories if you don't want to save to root - at any rate - this window is a destination you can drag the song file = .MID -from- the Montage to your storage media).

So the instructions for Montage Connect say:

"Song Import: You may have saved song ideas using the internal MONTAGE Performance Recorder. When using the Connect plug-in, any song inside MONTAGE will appear in the "Song Import" window of MONTAGE Connect. The plug-in can view the contents of your instrument's SONG folder. To use, recall the Performance used in the song, select the song recorded, and then drag and drop it from the Song Import window right into the DAW Project Tracks window"

And you can replace DAW w/storage media on your computer:

"Song Import: You may have saved song ideas using the internal MONTAGE Performance Recorder. When using the Connect plug-in, any song inside MONTAGE will appear in the "Song Import" window of MONTAGE Connect. The plug-in can view the contents of your instrument's SONG folder. To use, recall the Performance used in the song, select the song recorded, and then drag and drop it from the Song Import window right into the window (file explorer) for your computer's storage media."

Make sure you realize how little Montage Connect does. There's a few file types it transfers between the Montage and your PC. Some, like song import, are only one-way FROM your Montage TO your storage media (on your computer). There's no music here - it's just file management.

The instructions leave out standalone - but really you just replace DAW with storage media. I mean, you already mention you see when the instructions mention DAW - you only see your hard drive or USB sticks plugged into your computer. That's because - that's it. Save or load from the hard disk or usb stick instead of using this in "DAW land" where ultimately the DAW handles saving the file somewhere. There's not a huge difference between the two environments for this application.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 27/11/2016 6:30 pm
Rod
 Rod
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Topic starter
 

Hello Jason - you are a brave and gentle soul in trying to help me do what no-one has done before! I have given up on Montage Connect as a Standalone. It does not, and Yamaha should explain why they claim that it does. The Montage does not appear in Explorer at all. It only appears in Control Panel.under Device Manager, but refuses to be managed. Every file I've attempted to save (correct file name input, but I've tried every variation of 'Location' that I've gleaned from the computer) meets with a message, either 'Folder not found' or 'File not found'. Under 'Events' in the Device Manager I was told the driver required further installation. I uninstalled it and downloaded it again directly into my music computer (rather than via a USB transfer). No change. You're right when you say it doesn't do much - it actually does absolutely nothing! At least as a Standalone. I am more than interested to hear if anyone succeeds in making it work as a Standalone, and in how they did it. Personally I don't think it can. I know the short answer is to install Cubase, but I have no use for that any more. I used to use it purely as a host for VST instruments, but the Montage (together with my Tyros and Korg) eliminates the need for them. I shall miss the ability to convert X7B files, but hope Yamaha may think again about file-swapping in due course. Without Cubase ...

 
Posted : 28/11/2016 4:57 pm
Jason
Posts: 8238
Illustrious Member
 

You don't start by interacting with your filesystem and look for the Montage. You start by loading Montage Connect (the application) and interact with it. By standalone, they mean the pictures you see of the application in the documentation should match what you see when you load the application except there won't be Cubase in the background. If you press your windows key (lower left of keyboard) and type "Montage Connect" - by the time you're not done typing that full phrase - you should see an icon with the full name pop up that you can click to load the standalone application.

Not sure about this driver business you keep running into. I installed the Yamaha Steinberg USB drivers without a hitch and this works fine. I use the USB to look at messages using MIDI-OX and also stream audio from the computer bleeps and blops (and more important audio) to my studio speakers.

If you can't hear your computer noises out your Montage connected speakers - then there's an issue. Make sure the Montage mode is set to USB and not MIDI. There should be a USB icon "logo" on the top of your touchscreen instead of a circle with dots which means MIDI mode. The menu is from the [UTILITY] button and then under touchscreen "Settings" -> "MIDI I/O" and then touch the "USB" square under "MIDI IN/OUT" to make sure "USB" is green instead of "MIDI.

After doing this, you may (or may not) need to unplug and replugin the MIDI cable.

Naturally, if your keyboard is not set to USB mode - then your PC won't detect it even if connected as turning OFF MIDI will turn off the port.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 28/11/2016 5:20 pm
Rod
 Rod
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Topic starter
 

Hello Jason - we're going over old ground here, I think. Montage Connect is correctly installed on my computer (I hope to attach a screen-shot of the 'Set Up page). I find that the 'Recall' function appears to work in that the Montage sends or receives Bulk Dump info to and from Connect. What does NOT work is either the 'Save' or 'Load' function. It asks for the File Name at the top (presumably the exact name of the Performance I want to save from the Montage). Which I enter. It then asks for a Location ... what does that mean? I assume it means the location of that file on the Montage, which I assume is the name of the category in which the file is. That doesn't work - I get a message that 'Folder not found'. So I should ask if my assumptions are correct? If not, what should I be entering?

Oh dear - I took a screenshot and have tried to 'Paste' it here, but it won't. How do I do that, please?

 
Posted : 29/11/2016 2:54 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

It asks for the File Name at the top (presumably the exact name of the Performance I want to save from the Montage).

If you are attempting SAVE a PERFORMANCE ...
Start by creating a FOLDER -

You can do this wherever you wish on your computer (you can put it on your DESKTOP) if you do not know how to create a FOLDER on Windows: you probably can by simply right clicking on your DESKTOP and select NEW FOLDER.

NAME the folder "Montage" or something you will remember
Launch the Montage Connect application
If your Montage is setup to MIDI IN/OUT = USB the program will automatically find it.
If your Montage is setup to MIDI IN/OUT = MIDI, then change it and the Montage Connect will automatically find it... If not, Under "SETUP" click on the line and select Montage.

Go to the "RECALL" screen
The icons there should be clear... the one that is directing data from the KEYBOARD icon to the COMPUTER icon allows you to "capture" a PERFORMANCE.

The NAME will automatically appear in the NAME space... You will also see the Date and Time followed by an * asterisk denoting you have a new PERFORMANCE that you have not yet SAVED.

If you wish to SAVE this on your computer, click SAVE on the bottom of the application... Now you will see your computer hierarchy... navigate to and enter your MONTAGE folder.

In the NAME space give the FILE a NAME... you should rename it whatever you will remember - say you've Edited the CFX Concert... perhaps you want to save this as "CFX Concert Rod" to denote that this is your edited version.

Click the big green SAVE box to write this into your Montage Folder.

The program will return to this folder every time, unless you change it.

When you wish to recall this program from your computer, you would click on LOAD, it will open you Montage Folder. Highlight the file "CFX Concert Rod"
Click on the big green LOAD box. And it will send that Program to your Montage's Edit Buffer (temporary working memory)

 
Posted : 29/11/2016 3:53 pm
Rod
 Rod
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Topic starter
 

Hello Bad Mister - and Eureka! I now understand why nothing happened - it had nowhere to go. For some reason I had not thought I would have to create a place to put everything, nor had it been explained anywhere that one must first capture the required file in 'Recall' and then save it under a given name to that specially created folder.Everything now works, so thank you many times over. I see the saved files have the 'X7B' extension, so when loaded back into the Montage Edit buffer they will be re-designated as 'X7U' files - is that automatic?

I imagine I can capture 'X7B' files in the same way from a USB stick - ie: those I have downloaded from Chris,for example. And last night I had about given up on the whole thing - it was Jason's dogged effort to keep me going that did it, so thanks Jason too! More fun in the offing!

A last request - is it possible to re-connect my MIDI ports through the USB without he intervention of Cubae? I know there's no way I can capture the combined sound - it would just save switching to and fro from MIDI to USB and back all the time ...

 
Posted : 29/11/2016 7:47 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

A last request - is it possible to re-connect my MIDI ports through the USB without he intervention of Cubae? I know there's no way I can capture the combined sound - it would just save switching to and fro from MIDI to USB and back all the time ...

You don't need to run Cubase. Montage Connect can be run stand alone (means without Cubase). You do have to use USB in either case.

Maybe I'm not understanding your question. Of course, you have to use USB to connect to your computer - it doesn't have MIDI ports.

You can appreciate that when working with a DAW, like Cubase, Montage Connect will automatically Save and Recall your synths setup. But if you are not using Cubase you can use it to save and recall individual Performances.

 
Posted : 29/11/2016 7:55 pm
Rod
 Rod
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Topic starter
 

Hello Bad Mister - no, I didn't explain it well. I have a Korg M3 and a Tyros 3 being driven via MIDI from the Montage. With the Montage in USB mode, the other two synths cease to function. I remember you said it was possible to connect 'Port 3' to 'Port 1' (whatever they may be!) so that the Montage would drive the other two while in USB mode - but that was with Cubase. Can that be done without Cubase?

While here. I've been playing with Montage Connect, and have hit a problem. I have several User sounds from Chris on a USB stick, and these have 'X7B' extensions. I cannot load them into Montage with that extension - neither can I 'Recall' them into Connect as the only provisions are from Montage to computer, or computer to Montage. No USBs. I attempted to 'Save' them to my specially created folder on the computer without any 'Recall' but only got a message that said 'Folder not found'. Could I put the USB into the computer, and drag and drop them into the specially created folder on the computer? Would Connect then load them into the Montage?

A last thing - where do I find the Montage Edit Buffer? I loaded the Performance I'd saved into Connect back into Montage (with its new name) - and it has vanished completely! It must be in the Edit Buffer - but where do I find that please?

 
Posted : 29/11/2016 10:05 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Hello Bad Mister - no, I didn't explain it well. I have a Korg M3 and a Tyros 3 being driven via MIDI from the Montage. With the Montage in USB mode, the other two synths cease to function. I remember you said it was possible to connect 'Port 3' to 'Port 1' (whatever they may be!) so that the Montage would drive the other two while in USB mode - but that was with Cubase. Can that be done without Cubase?

Yes, but you will need a computer program of some sort to re-route signal - as "smart" as computers are, they are nothing without software to tell them what to do. Cubase is one such program that can allow you to intelligently re-route MIDI signals through your computer.

While here. I've been playing with Montage Connect, and have hit a problem. I have several User sounds from Chris on a USB stick, and these have 'X7B' extensions. I cannot load them into Montage with that extension - neither can I 'Recall' them into Connect as the only provisions are from Montage to computer, or computer to Montage. No USBs. I attempted to 'Save' them to my specially created folder on the computer without any 'Recall' but only got a message that said 'Folder not found'. Could I put the USB into the computer, and drag and drop them into the specially created folder on the computer? Would Connect then load them into the Montage?

You can do nothing with those files on a USB stick directly to the Montage.

The extension (the 3 characters after the dot) tells you what the file is and how to access it. .X7B indicates this is a Montage Bulk file. This can be opened by Montage Connect on your computer and can be "bulked" (sent via USB-MIDI) to the Montage. "Bulk" is a term for transfer, as in transfer in bulk, the information that makes up the Performance.

What to do:
Place the USB stick in your computer.
Copy the .X7B file
Navigate to your Folder (you find it)
Open that folder
Paste the file to your folder.

Or as you said drag and drop the file into your folder.

Launch "Montage Connect"

A last thing - where do I find the Montage Edit Buffer? I loaded the Performance I'd saved into Connect back into Montage (with its new name) - and it has vanished completely! It must be in the Edit Buffer - but where do I find that please?

Don't worry, it will find you! 🙂
When the program "Montage Connect" Loads the file and you click on the green LOAD box, you will (magically) see the data appear in your Montage. It arrives in what is called the "Edit Buffer".

The data is there, you can play it, explore it, change it... but if you move away without pressing [STORE], *poof*, it disappears!

The Edit Buffer is where edits live. If you want to keep it, press [STORE]

Hope that helps

 
Posted : 30/11/2016 4:21 pm
Rod
 Rod
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Topic starter
 

Hello Bad Mister - that all helped enormously, thank you, but I'm still missing something! I get the X7B sounds in the Montage Connect window just as you said, and in the 'Load' mode I click on the first sound and then 'Load' ... on the Montage a drop-down dialog box says 'Bulk data being received' but where is it? It does not appear on the Montage. Previously, I had used 'Recall' to place a User file (2 Piano rev) into Montage Connect, It is still there, although I have sent it back to the Montage via 'Load' (it appeared as you said), but it is still shown in Montage Connect 'Recall' (it refuses to go from 'Connect' to 'Montage' when I click on that icon), and is the only file that appears on the Montage no matter which file I 'Load'. Are the files only copied to Montage? Surely they should be moved? So, how do I get rid of this pesky '2 Piano rev' that seems to be blocking everything else, please?

 
Posted : 01/12/2016 3:21 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Make sure your Montage is on the HOME screen when you transfer the .X7B file from Montage Connect (this way you will see the name of the Performance you bulked)... mind you it does not matter which screen you are on, when Bulk is received - it is received - but being on the HOME screen will make you KNOW FOR SURE, that the program has arrived.

If the NAME is "2 Piano rev" (?) then perhaps you have OVERWRITTEN a file. What does it sound like.

COPIED vs MOVED - what are your definitions for these words as you use them.

The Bulk file places the data that is on your computer into the active Edit Buffer of the Montage. This, again, is a temporary memory area on the Montage; where you can play, edit and try out the Performance. If you want to keep it, press [STORE].

 
Posted : 01/12/2016 4:48 pm
Rod
 Rod
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Topic starter
 

I found that the 'Performance Home' screen gave me immediate info, so that's the screen I use. When I call up the 'Montage Connect' window it is in 'Recall' mode - and with only the one icon lit (Montage to computer) with no name in the 'Performance Name' box. I then go to 'Load' mode, which shows my 9 X7B files, and select any one of them, then click on 'Load' (the big green square top right). The Montage displays a drop-down box that says 'Now receiving MIDI bulk data' and whatever is in he Name window on the Montage is replaced by '2 Piano rev' regardless of which sound I actually selected in 'Connect'. Also, the 'Recall' mode now shows both icons lit, where there was only the one to start with, and the name '2 Piano rev' has appeared in the 'Performance name' box. It's driving me nuts!

'2 Piano rev' is a simple layer of two different pianos with reverb added.

By 'copy' I mean the original is left in place, and a copy of it is sent. By 'Move' I mean the original itself is sent, leaving nothing behind.

I thought that whereas my download USB only sends a copy to the Montage Connect (drag and drop), the Connect would move the file to the Montage?

 
Posted : 01/12/2016 6:10 pm
Rod
 Rod
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Topic starter
 

An update on this - thinking that perhaps the presence of '2 Piano rev' on the Montage may be affecting transfers from 'Connect' in some way, I deleted '2 Piano rev' from the Montage. Then fired up 'Connect' and got it 'Online' and, as before, in 'Recall' mode the name line was empty and only one icon lit (Montage to Computer). Went to 'Load' and, as before, my 9 X7B files were listed. Selected one (I had previously deleted '2 Piano rev' from the list), and pressed 'Load' ... as before, a drop-down window on the Montage assured me that Midi bulk data was being received - and up popped the '2 Piano rev' name again. Which I thought no longer existed on either the Montage or Connect). And as before, in the 'Recall' mode there were now two icons lit - both to and from Montage, with the name '2 Piano rev' shown in the window.

Evidently this file has become fixed in 'Connect' and will not allow any other transfer but itself. Can it be deleted or nullified in some way? I'm really stuck on this one! (so what's new?).

 
Posted : 02/12/2016 5:59 pm
Rod
 Rod
Posts: 0
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Hello people - this has now gone beyond a joke! Being unable to load any file into my Montage from 'Connect', I decided to remove 'Connect' from my computer, not knowing what else I could do. So I went into Control Panel - Programs - Montage Connect - Uninstall and in a few seconds it was UNINSTALLED! Gone! Poof!

So now I could start again with a clean slate? Or so I thought. Re-installed Montage Connect ... Bingo! ... got it online OK. Looked in 'Recall' - nothing there, no icons lit. I did nothing there, went straight to the 'load' window, intending to drag'n'drop the X7B files from my download USB. To my intense astonishment, they were already there. How can that be? This was a newly installed program. With a sinking heart, I attempted to load one of them, and - you've guessed it, what appeared on the Montage was '2 Piano rev'. I simply don't understand how this could possibly happen - can anyone throw light on it please?

 
Posted : 03/12/2016 2:45 pm
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