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Hello,
Long time MOTIF XS user here. Having been inspired by Bad Mister's Montage / Cubase You Tube videos, I recently upgraded everything in my studio: Montage 7, Cubase 9.5 and new Creation Station from Sweetwater. Sweetwater handled all the software upgrades and installation in hopes of a trouble free setup. Overall goal - much less wrestling with the tech and much more playing and recording music! Today is Day One and I'm into some issues right from the start.
My main problem: When carefully following the setup steps in video 3, and the start of video 4, I get no sound from the Montage (or Cubase) after turning off Local Control. Prior to that step, re; prior to turning off Local Control, the instruments sound and work fine and I can even record midi data and get playback. As noted in the video however, it won't record or play back arp data with Local Control on. So, what am I missing here? When following the steps and turning off Local Control everything goes quiet but with Local Control On I can record some midi data but not Arp data.
In attempting to solve and fix this, I've noticed some differences between what is being shown in the videos and what I'm seeing in Cubase and the Montage:
- A "Montage" ASIO is referenced and shown. I see only the latest Yamaha Steinberg USB ASIO (1.10.0) in the VST Audio System page in Studio Setup. Are these two one in the same? Or where can I download the Montage ASIO as I've not been able to locate it with Yamaha / Steinberg / Cubase.
- In viewing Montage Forum content, I see a reference to a "Yamaha Montage multi channel recording" template when opening a Cubase project. As noted its meant to connect with Montage, Quick Setup settings, etc. which is exactly the simplicity I'm looking for! This template option does not appear in my Cubase 9.5. Do the other numerous templates in Cubase provide the same connectivity to the Montage and Quick Setup settings?? If not, can you tell me how to download / add that Montage template to Cubase Recording Projects?
- In following the video setup process; the midi port set up appears different than what is shown in the video. My Port System Names show "2 - MONTAGE - 1" "2 - MONTAGE - 2" and so forth in both the input and output sections. Are these effectively the same as the one's shown in the video and recognized by the Montage as such? It also shows the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth in the last output slot which is not seen in the video.
Not sure if any of those items are connected to the issue but would greatly appreciate your help and direction.
If Bad Mister is actually reading this, you were very helpful way back in 2010 with a MOTIF connectivity issue! I promise not to bother you for another 8 years if you can clean this one up for me too!
thanks and Best,
John
Posted : 23/02/2018 11:36 pm
EDIT: Sorry, with regard to audio I should have said Direct Monitor, not Local Control.
With Local Control set to Off, you need to have an Audio Track in your project with Monitor turned on to return the audio coming from the Montage into Cubase back to the Montage for playback on your speakers.
Posted : 24/02/2018 3:27 am
Local Control - Normally set to On, this allows the MONTAGE keyboard and physical controllers to address the "local" synthesizer tone generator. When set to Off, the local connection is broken, and the key press and controller messages are send OUT as coded messages via MIDI to be received by the Cubase MIDI Track, which echoes back (also called "Thru" ) the data to the MONTAGE tone generator... which then generates audio. When Local Control is set to Off your musical interactions with the keyboard and it's physical controllers are translated into MIDI messages — you are not directly in touch with the tone engine, instead all communication is via the external DAW (Cubase) and the routing as setup in the MIDI Track. When working to record MIDI with a computer-based DAW, it is common practice to work with Local Control Off... placing the DAW MIDI Track, literally, between the MONTAGE keyboard and the MONTAGE Tone Generator. You will notice that when Local Control is Off moving a Control or striking a key gives you no response unless you "complete the circuit" through the DAW MIDI Track(s).
Everything going silent when LOCAL CONTROL is OFF, is correct. You literally are disconnecting the MONTAGE Keyboard from the MONTAGE Tone Generator. And are placing the the Cubase MIDI Track in between. Unless you “complete the circuit” by routing the signal Thru the CUBASE MIDI Track you will not hear sound. You know you are setup correctly when you select the MIDI Track set to echo the signal back to the MONTAGE Tone Generator.
You need three different setups:
1) for MIDI Recording
2) for MIDI Recording that includes Arpeggio data
3) for Audio Recording
Yes, three different configurations. Recording MIDI data that includes Arpeggios requires a different setup from recording regular MIDI data.
In Cubase, let's make some fundamental Preference changes to prepare the program for the type of data that MONTAGE transmits. Cubase Preferences are settings you make within the program to tailor it to how you most often work.
If you are on a Windows computer you find your Preference by going to FILE > Preferences
If you are on a Macintosh computer you find your Preferences by going to CUBASE > Preferences
In your Cubase "Preferences" > MIDI > MIDI FILTER
Make sure you remove the Filter check mark from SysEx for both Record and Thru.
Click APPLY
Click OK
STUDIO > STUDIO SETUP > MIDI (used to be referred to as “DEVICES > DEVICE SETUP” Now called “Studio > Studio Setup”
Go to STUDIO > STUDIO SETUP > MIDI > MIDI PORT SETUP
In the column labeled "In All Midi Inputs" mark "MONTAGE 1"
Click APPLY
Click OK
Since you are using Cubase Pro 9.5 you can use the MONTAGE MULTI Channel Recording template to automatically configure your setup in Cubase.
Posted : 24/02/2018 5:56 am
Topic starter
Thanks Bad Mister for the quick reply!
Have triple checked the settings noted above and all good.
I understand your point about the routing but having confirmed the input and output settings how exactly do I "Unless you “complete the circuit” by routing the signal Thru the CUBASE MIDI Track you will not hear sound. You know you are setup correctly when you select the MIDI Track set to echo the signal back to the MONTAGE Tone Generator."?
You also note: "Since you are using Cubase Pro 9.5 you can use the MONTAGE MULTI Channel Recording template to automatically configure your setup in Cubase." As mentioned in my original note that template does not appear in the Project Setup Template Options. I'vbe attempted to insert a screenshot of the Steinberg Hub so you can see what templates are available. If these don't provide the full Montage connectvity is there somewhere I can download the template?
Thank You !!
Posted : 24/02/2018 4:26 pm
Topic starter
Bad Mister,
One other item from the first note:
I see only the Yamaha Steinberg USB ASIO (1.10.0) driver in Cubase. Your video shows a driver call MONTAGE. Are these one in the same or do I need to download the "MONTAGE" drive? If so, where as I've been unable to locate it in Yamaha's site.
Thanks Again!!
John
Posted : 24/02/2018 4:30 pm
I see only the Yamaha Steinberg USB ASIO (1.10.0) driver in Cubase. Your video shows a driver call MONTAGE. Are these one in the same or do I need to download the "MONTAGE" drive? If so, where as I've been unable to locate it in Yamaha's site.
If you are on a Windows computer the ASIO Driver is identified by name “Yamaha Steinberg USB ASIO”, unless told differently my screenshots are from a Mac where the ASIO Driver is identified by the device name “MONTAGE”. That’s all - in effect this is the same thing, just a Windows versus Mac convention.
When you turn LOCAL CONTROL on your keyboard Off, your key presses and controller moves are sent Out via USB to your computer as MIDI messages instead of triggering the Tone Engine as they normally do. In order to “complete the circuit” means ... in order for those messages to finally arrive at the MONTAGE Tone Engine you must complete the routing journey through your computer.... you do so by creating a Cubase MIDI Track that is set Receive MIDI IN from the MONTAGE on Port 1, and is set to Transmit MIDI OUT to the MONTAGE on Port 1.
When the circuit is complete you will again be able to hear the MONTAGE.
If you are set to transmit on MIDI Channel 1 from the MONTAGE, you must select a Track set to Transmit to MONTAGE on Port 1, MIDI Channel 1.
If you are set to Transmit on MIDI Channel 2 from the MONTAGE, you must select a Track set to Transmit to MONTAGE on Port 1, MIDI Channel 2.
And so on.
And only when you select the specific Track with the specific Channel, will that sound be heard. If you do not select (highlight) a MIDI Track you will hear nothing (Local Control is Off)
I see you do not have the MONTAGE templates in your Recording folder.
Have you downloaded and installed MONTAGE CONNECT v1.0.3?
If not, please do so. It is a utility that will help integrate MONTAGE into Cubase.
Posted : 24/02/2018 5:12 pm
Topic starter
On it! Will report back.
Thanks!
Posted : 24/02/2018 6:23 pm
Topic starter
Hello,
For the benefit of others following along...in order to download Montage Connect, had up date the Montage firmware to V2. Did this.
Then, unfortunately was unable to find a working link to the Montage Connect download. While the link above takes you to the Yamaha download site, the link to MONTAGE Connect V1.0.3 for Windows does not work. Tried a number of other sites including the Canadian Yamaha site too - same issue.
Any idea on how to reach Yamaha on this? Really looking forward to adding this connectivity and functionality to the set up.
Thanks again Phil for your continued help on this!
Posted : 24/02/2018 9:09 pm
Topic starter
The requested URL /files/download/software/3/1157663/MONTAGE_Connect_103-2_win.zip was not found on this server.
Posted : 24/02/2018 9:12 pm
Sorry for the confusion - not sure what the "-2" is about.... try the same URL without the -2
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/software/3/1157663/MONTAGE_Connect_103_win.zip
Posted : 24/02/2018 10:34 pm
Topic starter
That did it!
All updated and connected!
As always, thank you for the help, training and inspiration Bad Mister!
Cheers
Posted : 25/02/2018 2:47 pm
