No detectable grease/other on our M8X after checking 8 different 'between key' spots.

We got ours the first day they were available but once set up it has never been moved.

One possibility is that when you transported yours there was undoubtedly some shaking and jiggling. There almost had to have been changes to the orientation of the keyboard if you carried it horizontally, on edge for example.

So if there was a ball/pool of grease in one area it could have relocated during the transport.

Service should be able to spot the problem rather easily I would think. Hopefully it is still on warranty.

Posted by: Toby

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No detectable grease/other on our M8X after checking 8 different 'between key' spots.

We got ours the first day they were available but once set up it has never been moved.

One possibility is that when you transported yours there was undoubtedly some shaking and jiggling. There almost had to have been changes to the orientation of the keyboard if you carried it horizontally, on edge for example.

So if there was a ball/pool of grease in one area it could have relocated during the transport.

Service should be able to spot the problem rather easily I would think. Hopefully it is still on warranty.

Thanks a lot for checking and taking the time to reply!

I’m glad to hear it’s an isolated case… though I’m a bit bummed that the isolated case is mine!

The instrument has been treated with the utmost care. I transported it in the original soft case using a wheeled cart, always laid completely flat in the car — never stored or moved on its edge.

Over the years I’ve owned and transported quite a few weighted (and heavy!) keyboards — from the MC3000 (which had a very delicate keybed), to the Fantom X8, Yamaha P80, two Nord Stage 88s, OASYS 88, Kurzweil PC3x… you name it. Never had an issue like this.

Even now, I still own both a CVP-805 and CVP-705, and although I only sometimes move them around with K&M trolleys (elevators, outdoors, etc.), they’ve never shown a hint of this problem.

So yes, I’ll definitely take this unit to service and have it checked.
I just hope they don’t make me wait for months!

How much risk do you want to take? If there is 'grease', or other substance, moving around in there to the noticeable extent you said I'd be a little wary of even plugging it in until it gets looked at. That substance could, potentially, be all over everthing.

If you decide to risk it you could run the dignostics before you take it in to see if any of them show any other problem.

Hold a C#2 chord (C#2, F2, G#2) when you turn power on and let the chord go when you see the Yamaha on the screen and it goes into test mode.

You can use the data dial you run any of 39 different tests. The tests include having you press particular buttons, twirl particular knobs and move particular sliders.

For some tests you will need to watch the panel buttons/lights or the display to make sure lights come on when they should.

Wait for months? If your M8X is useable talk to the service center and they may be able to tell you when they will actually be able to get to work on it.

If they know it will be 2-3 weeks then you might be able to make an appointment to deliver it when they need it rather than deliver it and just have it sit around for 2-3 weeks.

My BEST advice? Unplug it and keep it unplugged until you deliver it to the service outfit. Liquids and gels sometimes don't get along well with electrical components. Why risk doing major damage?

If purchased from a business as new then I'd ask them for a replacement as one route to take.   Even if outside of their return period I'd still make a case for it and roll the dice.  Then you have more control over the timing.  They either have a unit in stock or not (or can receive one by a certain date).  If they go for it, the amount of trust needed is less.  Or you could even find another one to buy and determine how much you're willing to "pay" to get it "fixed".  Meaning you sell it as-is for some amount below retail which is your price for the "fix" (difference between selling price and the new one you buy).

These are two possibilities that keep you more in control of the schedule with varying levels of cost and effort.

In the meantime I imagine your ESP isn't going anywhere so I guess a third option or backup plan to any other would be to get or use an 88 key MIDI controller with ESP.  Maybe even some kind of polyAT one.   Up to you.  ESP seems to mitigate some risk if you can live with whatever controller you pair it with.  In a week or two ESP will be even a better backup than it is now.

Posted by: Toby

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How much risk do you want to take? If there is 'grease', or other substance, moving around in there to the noticeable extent you said I'd be a little wary of even plugging it in until it gets looked at. That substance could, potentially, be all over everthing.

If you decide to risk it you could run the dignostics before you take it in to see if any of them show any other problem.

Hold a C#2 chord (C#2, F2, G#2) when you turn power on and let the chord go when you see the Yamaha on the screen and it goes into test mode.

You can use the data dial you run any of 39 different tests. The tests include having you press particular buttons, twirl particular knobs and move particular sliders.

For some tests you will need to watch the panel buttons/lights or the display to make sure lights come on when they should.

Wait for months? If your M8X is useable talk to the service center and they may be able to tell you when they will actually be able to get to work on it.

If they know it will be 2-3 weeks then you might be able to make an appointment to deliver it when they need it rather than deliver it and just have it sit around for 2-3 weeks.

My BEST advice? Unplug it and keep it unplugged until you deliver it to the service outfit. Liquids and gels sometimes don't get along well with electrical components. Why risk doing major damage?

Thanks a lot for your detailed reply and your concern — much appreciated!

Just to reassure you: I already ran the diagnostics, and everything works perfectly. No errors, no unexpected behavior, no suspicious readings. The instrument is functioning just fine.

As for the possibility of any external substance getting in: I can guarantee that no liquids have ever touched the instrument. In my studio, nothing enters — no food, no drinks, no pets, and no people other than me. If I want to eat or drink, I step out. Always.

The studio is cleaned regularly and kept perfectly tidy, as it always has been and as it should be.

So I’m 100% sure this is excess factory grease, not something that developed from external causes.

What I’d really like to understand is why this happened in the first place:

Was it just a case of excessive application during assembly?

Or is this a deliberate design choice to reduce mechanical noise in this keybed?

If so, maybe Yamaha could clarify this point — because if the keybed needs that much grease to stay quiet, that’s good to know.

Posted by: Jason

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If purchased from a business as new then I'd ask them for a replacement as one route to take.   Even if outside of their return period I'd still make a case for it and roll the dice.  Then you have more control over the timing.  They either have a unit in stock or not (or can receive one by a certain date).  If they go for it, the amount of trust needed is less.  Or you could even find another one to buy and determine how much you're willing to "pay" to get it "fixed".  Meaning you sell it as-is for some amount below retail which is your price for the "fix" (difference between selling price and the new one you buy).

 

These are two possibilities that keep you more in control of the schedule with varying levels of cost and effort.

 

In the meantime I imagine your ESP isn't going anywhere so I guess a third option or backup plan to any other would be to get or use an 88 key MIDI controller with ESP.  Maybe even some kind of polyAT one.   Up to you.  ESP seems to mitigate some risk if you can live with whatever controller you pair it with.  In a week or two ESP will be even a better backup than it is now.

 

Thanks for your message!

I don’t have any live gigs this summer with the Montage M8x — I’ll just be programming a couple of setlists for two shows that will begin rehearsals later in the season, so the ESP is fine for now.

No need to buy another controller — I already have several 88-key options in the studio, and the Nord Stage 4 will probably go back under the desk in place of the Montage M8x. Maybe even permanently, since I never had a single issue in 5 years with the NS3 and almost 2 years with the NS4. For me, stability and reliability come first, and unexpected situations like this don’t go well with the way I work.

If anything, I might consider getting a Montage M6 instead — which would be a real pity, because I truly think the M8x is a fantastic instrument.

I still own quite a few Yamaha products: DX7, DX7-II, SY77, SY85, SY99, TG500, CVP-705, CVP-805, 01V96i, and more — mixers, old expanders, etc.

They’ve always given me a strong sense of reliability. The Montage line should inspire that same confidence. If it doesn’t, it’s simply not the right tool for me.

That’s just my way of thinking and working — and I believe it’s more than reasonable.

IMO this is most likely a 'one-off' problem and isn't endemic to the M line as a whole.

If anything, I might consider getting a Montage M6 instead — which would be a real pity, because I truly think the M8x is a fantastic instrument.

For a one-off issue that wouldn't be warranted or prevent an issue.

So I’m 100% sure this is excess factory grease, not something that developed from external causes.

If it is grease it isn't going to be from an external cause. An exception might be if you/someone had a habit of putting on your hair gel while leaning over the keyboard - LOL!

Knobs, wheels and sliders are all likely grease 'targets' - can't say from personal experience if they all get greased or not.

What I’d really like to understand is why this happened in the first place:

The service-shop, if they choose too, will be in the best position to explain what 'might' have happened. Some possibilities, in no particular order:

1. a gob of grease fell of the grease gun/applicator and wasn't noticed. That left it free to roam around later

2. a bad batch of grease that got liquefied by heat or an electrical issue and, being liquid, was free to flow around until it cooled off and solidified

3. an excessive amount of grease on a knob/slider/wheel that wasn't noticed and later did #1 or #2 above

4. the work of a vindictive 'other' that you: a) pissed off sometime in the past, b) was just waiting for a chance to get even, c) was lying in wait for the truck to deliver your M8X, carefully opened and sabotaged the instrument.

Do you remember noticing any damage to the tape or box it came in? Were there any 'perfumey' smells that reminded you of anyone you used to know?

If not my money would be on one of the 1st three. Heat can change the viscosity so if a gob dropped onto a transformer. . . . 

The best you can do is ask the service company to look at EVERYTHING to make sure they don't miss an area that might, initially, be hidden from view. That could involve removing sub-boards or assemblies so they can see what is  underneath them. You could also specifically ask them to document, in detail, the results of their 'grease' inspection. Looked at A - no grease/other noted, examined Modwheel - result normal, etc. 

Thanks for posting to alert others to the possibilities.