I got one reply from my friend that used to work for Yamaha as follows:

I may be missing something but I think this is simple. You have two USBs into the computer – one from the Montage, the second from the hardware controller. I believe the million dollar question – that probably cannot be answered is what will the Montage MIDI driver allow you to do - WILL it accept the path back from the hardware controller so that the Montage can be controlled with the hardware controller? Good luck with the driver – Yamaha is notoriously slow releasing a driver, often months and months after the keyboard releases.

david wrote:

I'm wondering specifically whether I can route the Montage via USB directly into a hardware mixer like the Allen & Heath Qu-16 with the single USB and have all my channels sync to the mixer channels. Then also network to my laptop DAW for recording? I'm checking the manual now for this type of routing on the Qu-16.

No.

I see they don't offer PC capabilities with the Qu-16. That's a big alienating factor. So what other small studio mixer would work with a PC and Montage over a single USB cable?

None

Looks like Soundcraft Si impact will do 32in/out over USB and for PC but I don't see USB input. The Behringer X32 has both it appears.

After pondering this, sorry I have no experience with this, would the computer be in the middle of the chain? For example: Montage to computer and then computer (DAW) to digital hardware mixer OR is the mixer in the middle because the connectivity issue comes into play. Thanks

Ok, it's pretty obvious you do not have experience with this. The Montage has a digital mixer built-in, and I dear say, with more processing power than all of the mixers you have mentioned! Besides the USB on Montage connects to a computer (and only to a computer). No mixer necessary, no mixer even possible via USB. The inputs to the Montage's digital mixer are fixed to the internal synthesizer Parts 1-16, and the A/D input Part plus six inputs returning from the computer.

Read any of the manuals on the digital mixers and you will see their inputs are for analog input signals only - the digital inputs are from a computer. There raison d'être is to take analog signal IN and convert it to digital signal OUT via USB to a computer.

The Montage has a dedicated digital mixer built-in, providing a massive 32 bus output system to the computer via USB. Every channel has access to the 32 bus outputs (main stereo L/R plus 30 assignables), and so does anything plugged into the Montage's A/D input. Each of these 17 channels features its own dedicated dual Insertion Effects (17 pair of dual insert effects), each channel features its own 3-band Part EQ prior to the Insertion Effect, and a 2-band EQ post the Insertion Effect. And talk about automation, if you are studying/looking at digital mixers please see what is on offer there, and then come back and read what is on offer in the Montage. You will better appreciate exactly what you are getting built-in to the Montage. The VCM Effects have a stellar reputation in the audio world (just ask Rupert Neve) and are a very good reason the MOXF, Motif and the Montage series sound so very good. And wait until you hear it what else Montage has to offer sonically... It's night and day improved over the Motif XF even!

Take it from someone who currently works for Yamaha, the driver will be released prior to the keyboard shipping. If you are referring to the whole mLAN thing and Apple's failures to finish writing their promised driver within the parameters of musician time, that is water way under bridge. We have moved the multiple MIDI and Audio protocol to USB (instead of FW). The Yamaha Steinberg USB driver will be found on http://download.yamaha.com

It is already running 34 channels of audio for our TF-series of digital sound reinforcement mixers.

Each of these 17 channels features its own dedicated dual Insertion Effects (17 pair of dual insert effects),

Great, that was a point that i wasn't sure, the A/D input have also he's 2 dual insert FX even if we used 16 parts with their dual insert FX, thank you Phill 😉

I was checking out the Yamaha TF and wanted to be able to grab and touch real mechanical faders and have the Montage sync up with the TF. Be able to bring in mics and CP1 etc. in on other channels while the Montage occupied 1-8. That TF looks amazing. I know it's redundant but to slide the mechanical fader on the TF and have the DAW and the Montage mirror that entry would be awesome. I'm trying to create a reason to buy the TF and use it with the Montage. Obviously sending an analog line out of Montage to the TF is pointless if I can't have every channel sync'd over a single USB cable. I was hoping to had a digital input over USB and that's sad that it doesn't.

david wrote:

I was checking out the Yamaha TF and wanted to be able to grab and touch real mechanical faders and have the Montage sync up with the TF. Be able to bring in mics and CP1 etc. in on other channels while the Montage occupied 1-8. That TF looks amazing. I know it's redundant but to slide the mechanical fader on the TF and have the DAW and the Montage mirror that entry would be awesome. I'm trying to create a reason to buy the TF and use it with the Montage. Obviously sending an analog line out of Montage to the TF is pointless if I can't have every channel sync'd over a single USB cable. I was hoping to had a digital input over USB and that's sad that it doesn't.

It is neither sad or anything else. It's all "timing". Yamaha introduced true digital networking some twenty years ago and spent a good decade+ trying to get the computer companies (they know who they are) to see the benefit of true digital networking - not only were they slow on the uptake but so were end users. Sorry if you missed it but those brave (adventurers) who adopted and got into mLAN know just how powerful true digital networking of musical instrument devices can be (sadly it never evolved beyond just the keyboard synthesizer on the instrument side, Motif, ES, XS, XF) but we built several digital consoles (01v, 02R and the 01X which was the dedicated home studio mixer) that allowed such routing and networking for the Home Studio... 16 bus outputs from the Motif ES 2003 arrived via FW in the mixer!!!! Fully motorized faders and digital processing and routing via a digital patch bay... But it proved to be so geeky and niche, that most folks who struggle with MIDI IN and MIDI OUT, didn't know what to do with 100 channels of audio and hundreds of Midi channels flying around in a network. Those who "got it" know it had no equal.

mLAN used FireWire because back then USB (which always had enough speed, speed is a spec that drove business computers - which buttered the bread of the big computer companies) but back then USB did not have the bandwidth necessary for the demands of musicians who require simultaneous, bi-direction communication. Computer companies focused on one way directional streaming of data... Transferring files (copying) .. Where "timing" is not critical. Here I'm using musicians "timing"... If you transfer a print document and there is a 20ms pause in the flow you will not even notice or care. Let that be your guitar solo and you'll scream bloody murder! No one makes demands on the computer quite like musicians.

I've sat in on meetings where "musician time" had to be explained to these computer companies and their programmers. To them the 350ms delay between you pushing the PLAY button on an audio file and it playing back is just fine. Most people do not even notice any lag when they press start on computer's default media playback program. To a musician 350ms is unusable, absurd, and impossible... Try playing a chord and waiting 350ms to hear it! The concept of "overdubbing": playing back and recording simultaneously, brought the question: "Why would you want to do that?" (That's when you know you're in trouble) 🙂

There are people who "play" (musicians) and there are people who "playback" (civilians)... Computer companies are concerned first about the civilians... Rightfully so. After all, they out number us by a HUGE amount. Who needs tight flawless timing but us? Hey, I'm not bitter 🙂 just when you come along and say "so sad" I just feel compelled to tell a little of the story, david ... Sorry you missed it!

On the bright side, it caused evolution of the gear, we simply built the digital mixer and many of its concepts INTO the Yamaha synthesizer. We developed new musical EQs, specialized effects, and if you've watched the evolution of the synth over the period of 2001-2011 you've seen the trickle down from Yamaha digital mixers into the keyboard synthesizer. Ironic because the digital mixer, as a concept, owes its beginning to the DX7 and TX816, synthesizers! 🙂

The very first digital mixer from Yamaha with motorized faders, digital EQ and effects was introduced in 1987... The DMP7 - it was designed as a keyboard player's mixer... It received Program Changes via MIDI so you could customize your mixer per composition right from your keyboard. The Mixer was "taught" MIDI. Back then effects inside keyboards were minimal or none. Processing was done in the mixer. Compared to now - where in the Montage I have more processing on board then I had in some $100,000+ studio facilities back in the day!

End rant... 🙂 thanks for the comment, felt good to get that out!

Thanks BM for that history. The Ex5 was my last real synth, ordered new at release, and then I was out of the loop until the XS. I used it for a short time. Now I have the Montage on pre-order so I'm cautiously excited about it. I actually repair Yamaha gear now. One hundred of the RS7000s in recent years replacing the switches. Just did one today actually. I have several of SU700s, EX5rs, RS7000s and I've repaired 50 plus SY77/99s. Lots of Yamaha parts stockpiled as well. Seems like I fix stuff more than I play it. One day I'll be replacing that super knob if I'm still making repairs down the road. I bought a laptop for the Cubase. I have several Cubase copies that came with my CP1 other other gear over the years. Somehow I no longer have the codes. I contacted Steinberg and they have ignored me thus far. I guess I'll have to wait until the Montage arrives to learn it. I even have a copy mailed directly from Yamaha but no code was with it. Maybe I'm not registering it correctly.