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Montage/ModX Drum Kits : where are they ??

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 Fred
Posts: 0
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Topic starter
 

Hello,
In the Montage Data List document published by Yamaha, there are 174 detailed Drum Kits (from page 23 to page 66) with the title "Drum Kit Assign List". They are called "Schlager Weapon 1", "Early 80s DiscoPop", "Midnight Funk", "Groove Organ",etc....
But I can't find them in the Montage! I take the example of the very first, which is called "Shlager Weapon 1" (page 23 of the Data List), we can clearly see all the keys of this Drum Kit. But if I do Shift+Control Assign on the Montage panel, and do a search for one of these Drum Kit names name, nothing is found !
I looked in all the available manuals , with the keyword "Drum Kit", nothing was found! There are indeed the Drum Keys but not the Drum Kits, whereas there are more than 40 pages of Drums Kits in the Data List.

So my question is: where can we find all these Drum Kits indicated in the Data List?
Thank you

 
Posted : 07/02/2022 6:31 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Not all of the Drum Kits are SINGLE Part Performances. When the international team of programmers were tasked with creating the Performances that make up the Factory set, they were allowed to customize their own Drum Kits, naturally. The "Schlager Weapon 1" Drum Kit is found in the Performance by that name.

As Bill correctly points out, by typing in a portion of the Performance name while conducting a "Performance Category Search" you will find the Performance that contains this Kit. When you recall this Performance you will discover that the "Schlager Weapon 1" Drum Kit is in Part 4 of this Performance.

How can you use this information to recall that Kit?
The Category Search feature for programmed sounds has three distinctly different searches:
Performance Category Search - replaces all Parts with an entirely new Performance
Performance Merge - appears when you tap "+" to ADD a new Performance to an existing Performance
Part Category Search - appears when you replace an existing Part in the current Performance

When you wish to use this Drum Kit in a Performance that you are building you would use either the "Performance Merge" or the "Part Category Search" function.

Lets add the "Schlager Weapon 1" Drum Kit to "CFX + FM EP 2" using "Performance Merge"
This is a 2-Part Performance - so to begin, from the HOME screen:
We tap the "+" in Part 3 to ADD a new program... the "Performance Merge" screen appears (the name of the screen is always upper left)
Set the "Bank/Favorite" = All
Set the "Attribute" = All
Set the "Source" = Part 4 (instead of All)
Type in "Schl" under the magnifying glass - any program with those letters will appear, including all of the "Schlager Weapon" programs.
Select "Schlager Weapon 1"
__ Because we set the "Source" = 4 it is the Drum Kit in that Performance that will be merged to your current Performance

When you are replacing an already existing PART of a Performance you can either tap the "Type/Name" box of the Part you wish to replace - a pop-in menu will appear - select "Category Search" to launch the "Part Category Search"... OR you can highlight the PART, then press [SHIFT] + [CATEGORY] to launch the "Part Category Search"
Again you can set the SOURCE to the PART you wish to bring into your current Performance.

Extra Credit:
When you are MERGING Performances the Drum Kit will come into your Performance exactly as programmed in the "Schlager Weapon 1' Performance
When you are REPLACING a Performance Part you will have several options (Part with Parameter) You can opt in (green) or opt out (gray) on whether the Part comes in with its prior MIXING setup, ARP/MS, SCENEs and/or ZONE settings. So for example, if you want the Drum Kit to come in with the same ARP as assigned in the Schlager Weapon 1 Performance you would leave the ARP/MS box green. If you want the Drum Kit to inherit the Arps you already have assigned in your current Performance you would opt out and turn that box gray.

Often when Drum Kit Parts are included in a Performance with Normal instruments - the Drum Kit Part is under control of an Arpeggiator (as is the case with the Drum Kit in "Schlager Weapon 1" - It is important to know that there is a PART parameter found in the Arpeggiator that will designate a PART to ONLY respond to the ARPEGGIATOR - which means it does not sound when you directly hit the keys.

This parameter allows you to STOP the ARPEGGIATOR without the Drums sounding under every note that you play C0 through C6
From the HOME screen
Select the PART containing the Drum Kit with Arp
Press [EDIT]
Touch "Arpeggio" > "Common" > the parameter is aptly named "ARP PLAY ONLY"
When ON only the Arpeggiator can sound this Part
Turn this OFF if you wish to manually play the Part yourself

Hope that helps.

 
Posted : 07/02/2022 10:33 pm
 Fred
Posts: 0
Trusted Member
Topic starter
 

Bill , I just want to create a User Library containing all Drum Kits as Single Parts Performances. Thus, I will be able to simply take one or another in further Performance creation.
Thank you for your answer.

Thank you very much Bad Mister for your accurate and easy-to-follow asnwer. It will help me, for sure.

 
Posted : 08/02/2022 8:42 am
Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
 

Bill , I just want to create a User Library containing all Drum Kits as Single Parts Performances. Thus, I will be able to simply take one or another in further Performance creation.
Thank you for your answer.

Thank you very much Bad Mister for your accurate and easy-to-follow asnwer. It will help me, for sure.

My 2c...

You are free to do as you please with your Montage. However, I would suggest "copying" all Drum Parts into your User Bank would be a waste of User Resources, would serve little benefit for the effort required and would possibly lead to confusion if you named them the same as the Factory Preset Performance names... which I presume you would do.

The simple method here is as BM describes... use the Performance Merge function along with the "Source" filter.

Or... do not use the Source filter (leave it set to "All" ) and simply delete all the Parts not required... i.e. everything but the Drum Part (or Parts) you want.

Since you are so keen to lay your hands on these "designer" kits, then I would assume you have seen and heard them in play, and would therefore know which "Part number" they are, so you may quickly and easily use the Source filter.

However... take a look at Performance "Tektonic Dub". There are 4 Different Designer Drum Kits... and they're all called the same (after their Performance Name Parent). Confusing.

So, if you want to use one of these kits, then I would assume you have already decided "which one", and where to find it.

Last point, even though there are many Drum Kits, you will find a lot of commonality between them. In "Designer" kits, if you look hard enough in the Data List, you may be able to "trace" the "factory" source kit (i.e. Single Performance Kit visible in Performance Category Search ( random example T's EDM Kit) ).

To explain further... a Yamaha Sound Designer (paid for his/her time), takes an "off the shelf" kit and then "modifies" it to suit the overall performance. At the most basic level, this might involve changing the "waveform" of a "typical" or "standard" percussion hit. For example changing a "Closed HiHat" for a "Referees Whistle". Heavier modifications would involve changing more waveforms for "custom choices" and maybe changing waveform velocities, tuning, EQ and other "factors".

If you take one waveform from Schlager Weapon... "Abstract FX4" and then do a Data List Manual text search on "Abstract FX4". Surprise, surprise.... it looks like whoever "designed" the Schlager performances, also designed quite a few other Performances.... and used the same "designer kit" he created for the Schlager series. Except of course, that same kit** is called something different in the other Performances.

(** disclaimer... not checked they are identical... but they are very similar).

The Good News is... you can make your own Designer Kits (like having a Drum Machine). Simply Edit the Drum Part, touch the screen button in the Bottom Right "Drum Key" (Blue) , then touch "Keyboard Select" button just above it (it will go Green). Now press any key to hear the original programmed waveform.

To Change it to something else, click the "Name" button (top right of screen), click Category Search in the left Pane (Takes you to Key - Waveform Search; yellow text on brown background). Now you can put whatever "sample" you like under that drum key... e.g. Abstract FX4. It's good fun, you should try it 🙂 .

 
Posted : 08/02/2022 11:15 am
 Fred
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Topic starter
 

Thank you Antony,
Yes, that's what I want to get : a Library containing all the Drums Kits, in a single part Performance, without any effect. That way, I will be able to listen to each of them, on the pure original sound, and decide if I use it or not. It's a big work, indeed !!
Of course, I will get rid of duplicates when they exist.
That's the way of using Drum Kits in all workstation I've owned : the manufacturer publishes a data list, with Drum Kits list, and it's easy to use one or another according to the list.
Later, if I'm not satisfied with the existing kits, I will edit them or create what I want. But for now, I will doing that.

 
Posted : 09/02/2022 9:14 am
Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
 

@Fred... did you know can instantly listen to the DRY sound of any Part (including Drums) by switching all FX Off?

You can touch the FX Icon in the very top centre of the Screen to take you to Global/Utility FX Switches (Insert, System and Master) and turn them all off to hear an uneffected Dry sound.

Beware, any pseudo effects caused by LFOs, Envelope Generators, Detunes etc will still be working.

 
Posted : 09/02/2022 10:26 am
 Fred
Posts: 0
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Topic starter
 

Yes, I knew that Antony. But I don't want all effects to be switched off, but only these "dry" Drum Kits.
Thank you for your post.

 
Posted : 11/02/2022 7:32 am
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

Not completely dry - but if you listen to anything through the Assign L/R outputs on Montage then this output removes the System (Variation, Reverb) and Master effects. Insertion effects will still be present. This may be an option for monitoring with "less effects" if that's at all helpful.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 11/02/2022 12:41 pm
Antony
Posts: 745
Prominent Member
 

I can't say for certain on the Montage, but there is a Global Switch for Insert Effects ON/OFF in the MODX. This is in addition to System and Master effects switches.

Also, this allows for 100% Dry to be heard through the Main L&R outputs (The MODX doesn't have the extra Assign L&R jack sockets).

 
Posted : 11/02/2022 8:13 pm
Jason
Posts: 8259
Illustrious Member
 

Montage has the same features to toggle various FX. That was swatted down. Just adding some info for Montage (tailoring to the forum posted).

Also for both (MODX+Montage) USB outputs other than USB MainL/R strip out the same master/system effects.

I don't think this will be satisfactory due to the use case implied - but still just conveying what's available in the vicinity of the ask.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 11/02/2022 9:06 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Just to add a bit for clarity's sake.

The MONTAGE/MODX do not have a "Voice" mode -- this was one of the major changes from the previous Motif/MO-series.

A Voice was an individual instrument - for example, "Full Concert Grand" was the main Acoustic Piano in both the Motif XF and MOXF. (You can find it in the MONTAGE/MODX as a SINGLE PART Acoustic Piano). The significance of it being a VOICE in the previous models was this: When you wanted to use the "Full Concert Grand" in a layer or split with another Voice you would place the "Full Concert Grand" in a Performance PART. The Part was a set of parameters that would be applied to the "Full Concert Grand". If you wanted to use the piano in a split with an acoustic bass, for example, so that the piano only sounded C3-G8; you did not EDIT the original Voice "Full Concert Grand", what you did was edit the PART parameters that would be applied to it. This way the original "Full Concert Grand" Voice could remain completely unchanged. A Motif XF/MOXF Performance was a set of parameters that addressed a Voice location.

Same went for the SONG MIXING and PATTERN MIXING setups... Voices were placed in Parts, the Parts referenced the original Voices without destructively changing them. The Part parameters where stored separately.

The Performance and Mixing Part parameters of the Motif/MO-series always referenced a Voice (in a separate mode). This was great because you could reuse the "Full Concert Grand" in dozens of Performances without destructively changing the original program.

If your Motif XF/MO-series Performance included a USER Bank sound, it was possible, however, that if some other Voice was loaded to the User Bank location that the Performance data was pointing to - it would simply reference whatever Voice occupied the User Bank slot currently. (not ideal) - but that method saved lots of memory...

While that system worked to save lots of memory in the Motif XF and MOXF - it is no longer necessary in the current models. There is enough internal memory to store each edited instance as an accessible/searchable separate entity - its location is the Performance plus the Part #. When you use the "Full Concert Grand" in a MONTAGE/MODX Performance, the PART does not reference another mode. These new synthesizers have way more memory - so each instance of the "Full Concert Grand" - whether you use it in just two or you use it in one-hundred and two different Multi Part Performances - there is enough memory to STORE each new instance. So all the referencing of another mode, and a specific location in that other mode, is eliminated.

The need for having each Kit separate as a Single Part Performance is also not necessary - but if it helps you organize things, you can certainly do that. But my point is - if you are working a particular musical composition, say a sound alike of pop classic. You might edit a Drum Kit specifically for that song - Keeping the Kick and Snare but switching Hihats, cymbals, and toms by assigning different Waveforms to those Drum Keys... this is now a Drum Kit customized for a specific SONG...

Say it was "Babylon Sisters" (Steely Dan)... The Drum Kit Part would be stored in that Performance - which you would likely name "Babylon Sisters". When ten weeks from now you are working on something and you say - "I'd like to use that same Drum Kit I worked so hard on for that Steely Dan tune...." You would simply do a "Part Category Search" for "Babylon Sisters" and set the SOURCE = the Drum Kit Part #... You can bring it in with its programming from Babylon Sisters or you can opt to strip that off and inherit the current Performance setting for the Part slot you are replacing.

All of the Factory (Single Part) Drum Kits are listed separately. As I mentioned, if a programmer was going to use Drums in the particular Performance they were constructing - you can imagine they might have selected one of the Factory Single Part Drum Kits and edited it to their needs, or they built one from scratch. Both options are available. There are many Waveforms that are not used in any the more standard kind of Kits - Oft times you just want to activate a non-drum/percussion Waveform within a Kit - there are several VOCODER Hits used as Drum Key sounds - virtually any AWM2 Waveform can be assigned to a Drum Key (C0-C6).

 
Posted : 11/02/2022 9:50 pm
 Fred
Posts: 0
Trusted Member
Topic starter
 

Thank you Bad Mister for these precisions.
I'm probably stuck to an older concept of workstations, since my first one, the Korg T1 (30 years ago !!) up to now with my Korg Kronos ! That would probably be worthwhile to modify my way of thinking with the Montage.

 
Posted : 12/02/2022 8:34 am
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