The Motion Sequence can be set to LOOP, or not (one shot) in a similar way that the ARP can be set to LOOP, or not. This setting is independent and for the MS found on the "Motion Sequence" > "Lane" setup screen. When you set LOOP = OFF, the MS will play the CYCLE steps through once.

What you need to know, although the ARP and MS are very parallel functions, they do differ slightly in how they are controlled. Arps work on Note data, principally, while the MS work on Controller data, principally... Arps and MS can be triggered by Key-on events, and can follow the TEMPO, only MS can be triggered by a button press, (Trigger); only Arps can stop instantly when the keys are released, MS complete the current Cycle once triggered; both can be set to Loop endlessly. Both can be influenced by the timing Offsets (Play FX) that add a "feel" or swing to their application.

Motion Sequencer can be triggered to play once by assigning it then touching the dedicated [Motion Seq Trigger] button. The "Trigger" option appears in the screenshot above (top line) - the button is next to the MW.

Even if you have "Key On Reset" set to "Off" for the Lane, MS will re-trigger when you hit a key after the loop completes and you have "Loop" set to "Off". Although the loop doesn't keep playing over and over - the trigger still re-arms at the end of playing the last cycle when Sync is set to "Off" or "Tempo" or "Beat" since all of these Sync methods look at real keys playing. When "Sync" is set to "Arp" - now the trigger is no longer looking at real keys, but the arpeggio. Therefore, real key presses will not re-trigger MS. Now it's up to the ARP. With an ARP HOLD of Mute 4/4 - you can be sure that the ARP will only trigger MS once - when the ARP first starts - and will not re-trigger because it indefinitely (forever) will "play" the Mute 4/4 pattern of no notes. The only way to re-trigger (which is what you want) under this situation is to turn off ARP and turn it back on again - so the ARP will be armed to start again -- which can now cause a re-trigger of MS.

When I set sync to Arp and Unit Multiply to 3200% one cycle equals 8 measures. I didn't do fancy math to figure this out although you could - I just turned the click ([UTILITY] menu) to "Always" on and looked at when my volumes changed. For the pulses I used "Hold". One set to a scale of 127 and one set to a scale of 0. So I could use the same pulse type (same hold) for both cycles - the 1st 8 measures and 2nd 8 measures. Use of "Direct" for the key mode allows for the sounds of this PART I placed the ARP on to sound - as has already been discussed/discovered earlier.

I also was "lazy" and used superknob automation since it's the "exact" same as an MS Lane in terms of setup - so I was also able to look at superknob go from 0 to 127 (LEDs marking superknob position). I tested using a simple program that was already setup for superknob volume control ("AcPiano+FMPiano DA") so most everything was already programmed for me minus the superknob automation part. I know you're not using superknob automation - still not advocating this - just revealing my cards in case this helps someone else.

The result was what you want: no funny ARP noises because Mute 4/4 was used. 1st 8 measures, the sound was one way (whatever superknob full counter-clockwise does) then Montage forever held the 2nd sound (superknob full clockwise). You'll replace superknob with "MS Lane" and "clockwise/counter-clockwise" with whatever value your MS Lane produces during that time window.

Thanks both for the detailed info.

Jason, I tried doing what you suggested (I think I got it right) but it's not quite there for me yet.

I have MS sync = Arp, Loop = Off
Then for my Arp, Hold = On, Loop = Off, Key mode=Direct

If I play a chord and hold it, I get the behaviour I am looking for - volume comes on after the designated time and stays on. But as soon as I play another note (even adding a note to the existing chord I am playing, the MS resets, volume goes to zero and need to wait the designated time again for the volume to go up. So I think even for Sync = Arp, a note on will also reset the MS trigger. So I think the MS is triggered by the note on when sync = Arp, and not the start of the Arp perhaps?

For MS setup, you didn't mention what "Key On Reset" is set to. It should be set to "Off".

That may not be it -- I'm not at the keyboard right now but can check your list and be sure all is well or if there's something left unspecified from my end.

What ARP (name) is under "Individual" for this PART (the active ARP)?

I believe you had two parts and two sets of MS Lanes for each Part - so be sure both are set up the same except perhaps for the ramp direction (or whichever method you use to turn down vs. turn up each PART).

I still have the experiment setup:

MS Settings:
==========

Arp/MS Grid = 480 (quarter note)

Sync=Arp
Unit Multiply=3200%
Loop=Off
Velocity Limit=1-127 (full range)

Cycle=2 (count)

MS Sequence Parameters: (each cycle setup)
=====================

Amplitude=127
Smooth=0

Polarity: Unipolar
Cycle 1 - Seq Step Value=0, Seq Step Type="A". (aka "pulse")
Cycle 2 - Seq Step Value=127, Seq Step Type="A" (aka "pulse")

Pulse "A" Curve type = Hold

Arpeggio Common Setup:
====================

Arp Part + Arp Master are turned on
Sync Quantize = Off

Hold=On
Change Timing=Measure
Loop=On
Key Mode=Direct
Velocity and Gate Time=100% - doesn't matter for Mute 4/4
Arp Play Only=Off
Arp/MS Grid = 480
Qntz Strength = 0%
Unit = 400%
Swing = 0
Velocity Limit = 1-127 (full range)
Note Limit = C-2 to G8 (full range)
Octave Shift and Octave Range = 0

Arpeggio Individual Setting:
=====================
ARP 1 = Mute 4/4

No other arps - just use ARP 1.

You can select an empty ARP. Make sure you have the ARP you are using selected and not a different / unintended one. This is in terms of the "ARP SELECT" buttons - or other various ways to select an ARP.

Arpeggio Advanced Settings:
=======================

Accent = Off/ Off
Random SFX = Off, +0, Off (Key on control = off)
Velocity Mode = Original
Trigger Mode = Gate

Probably fairly important to not select trigger mode = toggle since I believe that can get messy in this usage.

I believe that covers the important stuff with a lot of non-important stuff thrown in.

Jason
Key on reset is not available when MS Sync = Arp

This is a different performance I am working with so, there is only one MS lane for one part involved.

I have gone through all of your settings (twice to be sure) and even started with a new performance with just one part with strings to make sure nothing
else might be affecting it but still haven't managed to get it working. I set unit multiply to a smaller number (200%) for test purposes.

Most of my settings were already like yours but I originally had Arp loop = Off. When I turned it on I get a looping behaviour i.e. the volume alternates between high and low. When it's off, it will go from low to high, and stay there but when I press another key, it resets. But when loop = On, it is not being reset when I press a key. So the behaviour is close to what I want but without the loop.

I also noticed when I set arp unit = 400%, the volume stays high longer than it is low. I guess that's because it increases the length of the arp. But it still loops eventually.

I suspect you are getting the same behaviour but may not have noticed it. Can I ask you change the unit multiply of your test performance to 100%, hold a chord and see if it loops too.

If this isn't going to work, then let's not spend too much time on it - I appreciate your efforts so far.

Sean

Right - I was away from the keyboard when I mentioned "Key On Reset" - so my memory was failing me in that message. The longer one lifted from the actual settings doesn't have Key On Reset (because it isn't there, as you mentioned).

The major difference between our setups is that I am using superknob automation only because it was faster than setting up two MS lanes. But I'll go and double check a single PART.

The setup I have here is absolutely not resetting. I get 8 measures at one volume, then infinite measures at the second volume. There's just a single "snap" switch in volume after 8 measures.

Using the current (superknob) setup - If I set the unit multiply (for MS) to 100%, then the volume will quickly switch over to the second config (because everything is 32x faster) - so it's like a single quarter note vs. 8 measures at the tempo I have set (126 bpm). Holding the chord forever I see nor hear any loop.

I'm starting from the ground up - with a performance that started with no ARP and no MS. So all ARP and MS I setup is as described previously. I'm not sure if you have other ARP and MS activity going on in the performance you selected or have constructed that themselves are doing things you do not want (outside of the volume).

100% of what you describe you want is working here using superknob (only for expediency on my side) - so I'll just setup a non-superknob version of the same thing and confirm it still works - or let you know there's something different about the two domains (superknob automation vs. PART motion sequence). Not sure why there would be from a mechanism point of view.

Jason
I just tried switching to use the super knob MS as you have been doing to see if it was any different - and for me, I get exactly the same issue whether I used SK or the part MS. There is only one part involved in this performance - I started with a simple one part performance to try to get to the bottom of this issue without any other parts interfering. So no other arps, only one MS lane involved - keeping it as simple as possible.

I've switched everything over to an MS Lane (single one for a single PART) and all is well. So this works. Same settings - I chose a different way to build up the performance.

Instead of leveraging something that already uses superknob, I just wanted to stick with two single-PART performances and "merge" them to create a string that would start and play with the 2nd PART for 8 measures - then cut off and allow the second PART (a piano) to continue playing without strings. This is common for perhaps an intro that has strings and then the rest of the song no strings.

The two PARTs I selected are PART 1: Strings Section 2; and PART 2: CFX PopStudioGrand

When I turned Master ARP ([ARP ON/OFF]) to "ON" - the CFX PopStudioGrand already has set its ARP to play a pattern. I didn't want that - so I manually set PART 2's (CFX PopStudioGrand) PART level ARP setting to OFF.

PART 1 (the strings, which I change the volume of) is the only PART where I setup all the MS Lane stuff - so other than correcting a default on PART 2 -- there's no real programming or focus on PART 2.

Another non-MS thing I did was I changed the volume of PART 1 (strings) from whatever they defaulted to - maybe around 60 to a volume of 40. I thought the strings were too forward in the mix with the piano getting buried. This is only important because the volume of the PART is what you have to negate in your "Mod Control" curve - so I know I need at least a -40 in order to silence the strings.

For PART 1 - all settings I make are identical except instead of superknob automation - I'm using the "Lane" menu to setup the MS Lane. And I have to assign a source/destination - because that's not done for me. I setup cycle 1 to output 127 and cycle 2 to output 0 in this run, so my "Mod Control" curve had to have an output of "0" at 127 (first 8 measures) and output of at least "-40" (negative 40) when MS outputs a "0" past 8 measures. Standard curves won't do this because they ramp the wrong way - so I chose "Square" and made the largest negative square (-64) sit at the front of the graph so position 0 had the -64 square and position 127 had no adjustment. Settings were: Curve Type: Square, Polarity: Uni, Ratio: -64, Param 1: 0, Param 2: 2. This setup will depend on how you setup your cycles, because I could have setup the cycles to output opposite values (0 for the 1st 8 measures, 127 for the second cycle) which then I could have just used a standard curve with a -64 ratio with that different pulse output.

Superknob didn't need the mod control step - so above is just a blurb on how I had to set that up for the MS Lane method.

Also, under the ARP - using the Unit Multiplier of 480 (quarter note) is what setup the MS lane so that 100% would be a single quarter note. I think initially when I used the "Strings Section 2" PART - it had the ARP setup for a 16th note as the unit multiplier (120) so everything was 4x faster than I wanted it until I changed the Unit Multiplier of the ARP.

Can't find a flaw in terms of having PART 1 be "on" (volume no offset) for the 1st 8 measures and then turned off (volume adjusted to at least an offset of -40) past the 1st measures until the end of time -- or I re-trigger the ARP by pressing [ARP ON/OFF] a couple times (off then back on).

All I can think is other things (outside of the volume settings) getting in the way because ARPs and MS are turned on and those other things need to be worked out -- like I had to do with the CFX PopStudioGrand ARP response which I didn't want.

I've never gotten the volume high-then-low behavior. I don't see how I could since my cycles only have two states - 0 and 127. And once the cycles (pulses) are run through - they stop since the MS loop is set to OFF. For me setting the ARP loop to ON doesn't re-trigger MS. In fact, with ARP loop set to OFF - I never make it to my 2nd cycle. So the strings just never cut off.

I don't tend to do screen shots because Yamaha hasn't provided a straight-forward way to dump screens from Montage - so someone else will have to fly in with pretty pictures.

Jason
I'm at a loss to know what's going on here. I even tried backing up the Montage, initialising all data and creating the performance again to see if there might have been something in the Montage settings that was causing this to change. Still the same behaviour.

I presume you have the latest OS version, like me i.e. 1.51.1

Would it be possible for you to upload your test performance, so I can try it and see if I can figure out from there what is different?

Thanks again for your help

The OS version assumption is not correct. The best I could do is give you an SYX file you can load into your Montage using something like MIDI-OX. MAC has some applications for sending MIDI SYX.

A couple of notes - since the dump, I did a few things:

1) I added a PART 9 to try something with external control for another message (was able to save MUTE condition of PART 9 on a scene and was also able to save volume level on PART 9 as an alternative into a scene). Doesn't relate here - was just experimenting for another post.

2) As part of #1 I added a couple of stored scenes. scene 1 and scene 2.

3) As part of the config to make an SYX - I changed my MIDI device number for Montage from 9 to All. I had previously set the device to 9 as part of another experiment and it was just left there.

One/all/some of the above shook loose the behavior I was seeing with MS+Arp and now I see what you see. The MS appears to re-arm and repeat going back to the 1st 8 measure "strings on" state, then back to "strings off" for 8 measures and around it goes. Not what the doctor ordered.

Loading my SYX does not fix this. I did not store everything - just the edit buffer. So any system items that were contributing to success are "blown away" now. Probably better off for it since it "normalizes" my config to something that matches your experience.

I see exactly what you do now - so this is good. Not for success - but for alignment - which is better than success in some respects because it keeps me from drawing wrong conclusions based on some wrong mode left over from who knows what past experiment.

This has me throw out the previous advise and come up with some other method.

Right now, all I can say is press [MOTION SEQ HOLD] during any of the 2nd 8 measures after the volume switches. This will keep motion sequence from cycling volume because it will be frozen.

Here's my new description of what's going on:

1) ARP starts playing. When ARP "kicks off" it triggers MS (which is waiting for a trigger) because every time the ARP restarts - a trigger event spills out as a consequence.

2) MS goes through its cycles - after completing last cycle MS rearms its trigger and waits before starting a cycle again

3) ARP is either aligned (time-wise) with MS last cycle completion and immediately will restart the ARP -- which, in turn, will automatically restart MS no matter what you're playing (because trigger is set to ARP). If ARP is not finished yet - then MS will be idle until ARP restarts (causing a re-trigger) and MS will restart.

This assumes ARP is set to loop. The restart of the loop is what "spills out" a trigger-able event from MS's perspective.

So if the ARP restarts right as the MS cycle ends - then even if MS is set NOT to loop - it will appear to loop even though it is just re-triggered at the exact time it would normally loop (and loop is off for MS).

That's where the suggestion, for now, is to HOLD MS. You have an 8-measure window (pretty big one) to press one button - so this seems do-able from a performance standpoint. Not perfect - but one gesture away from it with a big landing strip to execute.

Jason
Good to know I wasn't going insane 🙂 I had a feeling it was something outside of the Performance that was giving you the behaviour you were seeing and I did try changing all sorts of global settings to see if I could reproduce what you were seeing, even going as far as reinitialising the Montage.

The MS hold is a good alternative option. I'm trying to see what I can automate with the MS, to free up my SK for other uses during a performance. Looks like this particular idea is not going to work for me so will look at various alternatives. I do have my FC 300 back again - if you recall UPS lost it when sending it to Ireland but subsequently found it again. So I can have the FC 300 programmed to do things I don't want to use my hands for.

Thanks again

Sean

"Not going to work" is a matter of perspective. I'm saying not to use superknob - but the MS Lane automation to, 8 measures-in, automatically control the volume. Then the only manual part is to put the emergency brake on using the motion sequence hold button so the cycles do not repeat and switch the volume back. For me, [MOTION SEQ HOLD] is never used - so purposing this for an emergency brake to keep volume lowered (or raised) would work out fine.

With a latching (toggle) footwitch, you could assign FS to the same CC as MS Hold and handle pressing the [MOTION SEQ HOLD] button with a footswitch.