@Fernando

I get it. I'm judging the general character out of the box. Although I've had an RD2000 for some time - which doesn't really afford that much tweaking - I haven't spent much time on Roland's synths. So my impression is before digging in and really seeing how much tweaking takes the gloss off.

Even though I do spend a lot of time with sound design - changing presets or building my own sounds - I like that the library of presets with Yamaha is already in line with most of what I can use quickly. Sometimes "on the fly" is needed and it's nice not to be annoyed by the sounds that come out when doing one's best to cobble together a quick fit for the gig/session. I don't rely on presets - but I do enjoy the experience under different situations better when the presets are better aligned with my sound concept. That's an OK preference to have.

I still purchased the Fantom. The hope is certainly that I can dial in what I want out of it. I'll give it some years to soak and see what I can come up with. Give me a few and I'll have a different impression. Not about the generalities I've thrown out thus far - but about more specifics.

@Darryl

I wouldn't mind a VA engine even though I'm not sure it'll materialize this round. What I see from the tea leaves is a lot of FM-related docs being pushed out. Initially I thought this may mean the modeled approach is being positioned to prime the pump for VA. I'm not so sure. There's a VA Ideascale with lots of votes and it isn't past the initial level. There's an FM-X idea that has VA mixed in -- but no comments on the VA side -- and this one is promoted. I'm not sure what this all means exactly, but I'm less optimistic about VA right now. Did I mention I wouldn't mind being wrong? I wouldn't, really. You catch my drift.

Honestly I'm literally pissed off of running after new synthesizers, and I felt a little offended when we were involved in that project called Ideascale, an elegant system to rip off people stealing their own good ideas.
There's another aspect I can't stand: when a synthesizer or, worst, a workstation sees the light it's already outdated. And the good ideas and suggestions that might refine and make it better will always implemented on the next ultra expensive model.
All that said, there's no need to consult a crystal ball to see that Montage is almost dead. I bought DX7mkI in 1984 and during several years I filled my homestudio of several Yamaha synthesizers such as TG77, FS1R, S90,S90ES, MU90R, Motif ES Rack, CS6R, AN1x, three PLG150-AN and Montage 7. But this time I won't be fooled by Yamaha again.

There's not much slight-of-hand or fooling happening. We all know technology is out of date when it hits the streets. That's been true for some time. Non-musical electronics are pushing memory/CPU/peripheral technology (all used in musical devices) at about a yearly pace. Yamaha implements slightly trailing tech in the new synths to give standards some time to breathe before adopting. I'm not a huge fan of this approach - but I know what to expect in this department.

You do have a choice to stop updating/collecting and keep gear for a few generations. That gives you around a decade or so on any given generation. Or wait longer. That's my approach. Anything else I pick up along the way is used and not nearly the dollar investment.

Yamaha's previous generation of flagship synthesizer was the MOTIF.

There was usually a new Motif model within a few years between the introduction of the MOTIF and it's various successors.

MOTIF - 2001
MOTIF ES - 2003
MOTIF XS - 2007
MOTIF XF - 2010

Since I first started researching the Montage, MODX, Kronos, etc., even before I purchased the Montage8, I noticed that the longer the Montage went without an OS update, the more skeptical people seem to become and started posting about the EOL for the Montage and what is the next new replacement. That was when the Montage was at 2.0. And then along came OS 2.5 and people rejoiced, had faith that there could be more updates and were happy with the latest one they just received. Then many months pass and the only thing that seems to be a pattern to depend on is that people start posting about the Montage's EOL and a new replacement synth again. Then along came the new Roland Fantom. Yamaha responded within weeks with 3.0 for the Montage and 2.0 for the MODX. Then ~8 months passed and people started posting about the Montage's EOL again and when will the have a new hardware synth replacement. Yamaha out of the blue (not in response to another new competing synth) came out with OS 3.5 introducing FM-X Morphing technology, other features and enhancements.

The only thing I feel confident about right now is that there is a new OS Update coming, as the pattern continues to repeat... And you know it's going to be a BIG one 4.0, so buckle up and get ready for basically a new Synth via a software OS Update. It must be obvious to Yamaha fans that lived through the Motif years that there has been a fundamental shift in Yamaha's Roadmap strategy. Otherwise I would have expected a new hardware flagship synth replacement months if not years ago...

The Montage has at least 5 more years before they replace it with a new hardware flagship! Sit back and enjoy the roller coaster ride of new OS updates, happy customers, passing of time, skepticism, next new OS update, etc, etc, etc.

The big problem is rolling out free updates keeps existing customers happy, but generally don't put a bump into sales. Those great articles on the Montage internals he said their are a couple empty locations on the circuit board that appear would be used to upgrade the current circuit boards for a Montage X. He also said the expensive and time consuming part of an update or upgrade is the programming the software. With the current environment I would say more likely we'll see a software update before we see an hardware upgrade or new model. Fingers crossed next weeks NAMM show will roll out a MoDX/Montage update.

Yamaha is in business... to make money.

How does Yamaha make money? By selling you owners (their chief market) new hardware.

Yamaha doesn't make money (in fact they "lose" money, which is already factored in) by spending hours upon hours paying programmers and musicians to make new software updates for older hardware.

Continuing to pay programmers and musicians for new updates on older hardware is not sustainable - Yamaha needs to make more money.

The Montage is now more than 5 years old - older than any Yamaha flagship synthesizer in recent memory.

There will be a new Montage successor - whether it be in 2021 or, more likely, 2022.

Yamaha is in business... to make money.

How does Yamaha make money? By selling you owners (their chief market) new hardware.

Yamaha doesn't make money (in fact they "lose" money, which is already factored in) by spending hours upon hours paying programmers and musicians to make new software updates for older hardware.

Continuing to pay programmers and musicians for new updates on older hardware is not sustainable - Yamaha needs to make more money.

This is correct, but also an incomplete characterization of Yamaha's position. Their profits are currently largely bound to selling new hardware to the same customer base. However this is mostly by choice, as well as partly due to sheer momentum (they've got an obscene amount of mass, and a respectable velocity). They don't need to be structured in this way.

There are many ways that Yamaha could orient themselves to profit from software development. For one example, they could license their software to smaller hardware-centric manufacturers. They could also sell major software updates to consumers. They could also sell support service; as nice as it is to have Bad Mister here providing support "for free", maybe it ought to be seen as having a hidden cost in the long-term?

I also think it's worth taking a look at exactly how Yamaha creates incentive for its existing customers to re-invest in new hardware. This goes beyond simply ceasing to spend "hours upon hours paying programmers and musicians to make new software updates for older hardware." In fact, they deliberately maneuver the older hardware into obsolescence:

There exist enthusiasts such as myself who would delight in spending their free time continuing to develop software for their own unsupported Yamaha hardware like the Motif XS and XF (or likely soon, the Montage). Unfortunately, Yamaha expends considerable effort to prevent this from happening. This can also be seen in their abandonment of support for the Yamaha Steinberg Firewire Driver, which is no longer usable with up-to-date Mac DAWs. They could release the source code for this driver, and thereby make things relatively easy for a volunteer developer to maintain their own hardware. Instead they seem to prefer to "throw away the keys".

I'm not suggesting that they simply ought to continue spending money on these things as they are currently structured. I'm only pointing out that they go far in the opposite direction, explicitly standing in the way of anyone else fixing these problems for free. They prefer that their old hardware has an expiration date, because this makes them more money.

It's worth noting that there is growing consensus that this sort of anti-consumer behavior should not be legal, especially in Europe. It's particularly painful for me to have to call attention to Yamaha's poor position in this regard, being that when it comes to hardware they have an outstanding history of engineering repairable designs and publishing exquisite service manuals in order to help maintain them. It's unfortunate that there hasn't been an "awakening" within Yamaha to bring this culture to their software side.

Yamaha is in business... to make money.

How does Yamaha make money? By selling you owners (their chief market) new hardware.

Yamaha doesn't make money (in fact they "lose" money, which is already factored in) by spending hours upon hours paying programmers and musicians to make new software updates for older hardware.

Continuing to pay programmers and musicians for new updates on older hardware is not sustainable - Yamaha needs to make more money.

The Montage is now more than 6 years old - older than any Yamaha flagship synthesizer in recent memory.

There will be a new Montage successor - whether it be in 2021 or, more likely, 2022.

Just to be precise: Montage was presented at the NAMM 2016 and was available in stores in spring 2016. So it's 5 years on the market now and not 6 (or 7 like stated in a post before).

You are correct!

Something that needs to be factored into the equation that I think is part of Yamaha's plan/roadmap, is that they aren't just providing existing owners new OS updates to the Montage for free, because it's really not costing them anything to update the Montage OS at this point anyway. Remember they are also providing these same updates to the MODX, which is THE hottest selling Synth on the planet, and nearly identical in OS code to the Montage. They are really in essence programming once for two different synths (aside from some minor differences between the code for each). Or another way it can be thought of is that they are really just using the Montage to program new features/enhancements for the MODX, which is no where near EOL. As long as the MODX is selling like hotcakes, it's really not costing them any extra software programming for the Montage, so in essence they update the software on the Montage for free.

What does continually providing new software based features & enhancements do? It instills confidence in new and existing customers about the product they choose to buy (or have already bought), as well as in future customers years down the road when they do release a new hardware synth. It opens up sales to new customers that they never would have had who may have been die hard Korg or Nord or Roland fans. This is mostly in regard to MODX sales, but they must be getting a decent amount of additional Montage sales as well that they may not have had if they didn't follow this new 'thinking out of the box' roadmap concept.
Basically, they keep updating software on the MODX, keep sales & confidence in their products high, and the Montage OS gets updated nearly for free, with enough new sales to make the 5 year old hardware viable to extend another 5 years as long as the MODX keeps selling and takes away customers from competitors.

Then 5+ years down the road when the dust settles and Yamaha have designed a new Flagship hardware synth to replace the Montage, they will have built up a reputation like no other competitor with regard to purchase value. Every potential new customer can safely buy the next new Flagship synth knowing they are going to get a good 10+ years out of it without questioning when it will become a dead EOL product. The longer Yamaha goes with the Montage, the more future customers they will get & keep with future products. I think they have factored this intangible value into their product roadmap, thinking of future sales & not just sales of the current synths.

They will no doubt add new colours of the Montage & probably MODX too, like a Blue, Grey, etc., throughout the next 5+ years. If I didn't know about this new product roadmap concept from the Yamaha rep. Saul in the https://yamahamusicians.com/forum forums, I probably would be skeptical about the Montage too, but everything he has said about it has come true so far, despite the many people that are skeptical and think the Montage is soon EOL. And the pattern keeps repeating in that the skepticism becomes more prevalent after 8+ months between OS updates.

And now Kurzweil. If only Yamaha had done the Montage with all the workstation goodies from the beginning...

Wish Kurzweil modern keyboards would use different keybeds. Love their flexibility but have to work to connect musically.

The big problem is rolling out free updates keeps existing customers happy, but generally don't put a bump into sales. Those great articles on the Montage internals he said their are a couple empty locations on the circuit board that appear would be used to upgrade the current circuit boards for a Montage X. He also said the expensive and time consuming part of an update or upgrade is the programming the software. With the current environment I would say more likely we'll see a software update before we see an hardware upgrade or new model. Fingers crossed next weeks NAMM show will roll out a MoDX/Montage update.

With all the competition out there, the only ways I see Montage attracting new users is if there's a significant price drop, or they implement a full-featured linear sequencer, with remix and sampling functions. It would be a helluva lot less expensive than releasing a new product, especially in the pandemic era we're in.

DAWs are losing the race folks- people like to sit in a comfortable place and just make music and not have to worry about drivers, latency and the general headaches that arise from being tethered to an external computer. Had the Montage arrived with the sequencer and sampling in place, it would have been a massive hit.

Another thing Yamaha needs to do is revamp the arps. Over 10000 and most of them are useless. Do we really need an arp that produces a piano chord every bar or every quarter note? And there are 1000's of similarly useless arps that no one will EVER use.

For a keyboard that comes stocked with EDM and electronic musical preset performances, there's hardly any arpeggios for those styles. Make zero sense.

Until Yamaha decides to make serious changes, my money goes elsewhere.