Hi Marcus

I will be trying the other way around - I have ordered a Montage 8 and will be using that for the piano and keyboard sounds but buying something like a 61 note controller keyboard for playing the fast instruments via the Montage. I had an XF7 and and XF8 previously and the XF7 keyboard never carried the same sound on piano as the XF8 purely because of the difference between the two physical keyboards; FSX and BH.

Marcos wrote:

I like to play piano sounds on a piana keyboard. But I don't like to play e.g. accordion or violin on a piano keyboard. So I intend to buy a Montage 6 (easier to carry) and connect it to a 88 key piano-action controller keyboard. There is any limitation from the Montage-6 side to play the 88 notes? Or do you have some special hints on this arrangement? Many thanks in advance for helping.

The only problem with playing the Montage from a "piana keyboard" is that you lose the hands-on functions of the Motion Control... if that is not a problem for you then there is no issue. The Montage-6 spans the entire 128 note range of MIDI, that should definitely cover the 88 you are sending from your controller. But what you will certainly miss is the methods to control the sound that are unique to the Montage interface... Super Knob, Scene buttons, Assignable functions, etc.

Steve wrote:

I will be trying the other way around - I have ordered a Montage 8 and will be using that for the piano and keyboard sounds but buying something like a 61 note controller keyboard for playing the fast instruments via the Montage. I had an XF7 and and XF8 previously and the XF7 keyboard never carried the same sound on piano as the XF8 purely because of the difference between the two physical keyboards; FSX and BH.

Likewise, however, you slice it, you too will miss out on the Montage front panel interface when playing the Montage via an external MIDI controller. If that is not a problem for you (and you will not know until you play on Montage) then you can certainly trigger it through MIDI.

Possible solutions:
For example, the Super Knob which defaults (on the Presets) to being controlled by an FC7 pedal plugged into the Montage's Foot Controller 2 jack... whatever your external controller is, it will not have the capability to do this - so you will need to run an FC7 pedal physically into the Montage's Foot Controller jack and place it under your controller keyboard. Unfortunately, your external controller is unlikely to have a Super Knob, nor is it likely to have a method to manipulate it. (Again, the mileage per user will vary...); the SCENE switches... I'm not exactly sure how you would deal with assigning those on your external device.

I recommend playing the Montage, then evaluate how you should approach your goal or fitting it into your setup. Again, each of us has different requirements and different tastes. I fully understand the playing of acoustic piano emulations from a weighted keybed (actually it is the only sound that truly benefits from this) and I fully understand that moving an 88 key keyboard can be quite a chore... the wildcard here, that I would be remiss to not mention, is what you'll miss when you choose to trigger the Montage via MIDI over playing the instrument itself.

I would be remiss because you could not possibly know yet, how important the front panel interface might be to your performing style (it may, it may not). I just say consider it before you rule anything out.

Hope that helps.

Hi Bad Mister,

Am I wrong, or can the Montage 6 be played on an external keyboard while using the knobs and other stuff on the Montage 6 itself?

Is it possible to play on an external keyboard on midichannel 1 and set zone ON and internal ON on part 1, and set the keyrange of that zone to G8-G8?
Than the controls still work, right?
And the sound will only play when you touch the external keyboard?
And in the meantime you can play another sound on the Montage?
🙂

Am I wrong, or can the Montage 6 be played on an external keyboard while using the knobs and other stuff on the Montage 6 itself?

Yes of course, that is what is being discussed here. Sorry if I was not clear... not sure how convenient it would be to play one set of keys and work the front panel of another... But that is what we are talking about. You will not be able to control completely the Motion Control Engine with just the external controller. If you can position them so that you can reach for the front panel (like people do with the reface units) the front panel there is easily accessible above the controller.

Is it possible to play on an external keyboard on midichannel 1 and set zone ON and internal ON on part 1, and set the keyrange of that zone to G8-G8?

Not sure I understand the question. You start by saying your playing on an external keyboard. So what does it matter what the ZONE and Key Range of the Montage is set to is set to? You would set the Key Range on your external Keyboard. Perhaps I'm missing your question entirely - please try again, sometimes I just miss what is being asked.

Hi Bad Mister,

I'll try to explain what I ment.

I don't want the sound (part 1) that I play from the externaI keyboard also sounds when I play the Montage. But I want to use the knobs of the Montage to control part 1.

So I thought I must set the zone of part 1 to ON and set the keyrange of that zone to G8-G8? (So it won't sound when I play the Montage, but it still sounds when I play the external keyboard)

Or are there other ways to do this?

So I thought I must set the zone of part 1 to ON and set the keyrange of that zone to G8-G8?

You only use the Zones on the Montage when you are using it as your Master Midi keyboard. You twice now have mentioned another device as your external controller. I must not be understanding what you mean

"I don't want the sound (part 1) that I play from the externaI keyboard also sounds when I play the Montage."

Sorry I don't understand this sentence. And every time I read it I get more confused, it's not clear to me, sorry.

If you don't want the Montage to play its own sound for Part 1, simply deactivate the "Keyboard Control" icon for Part 1 on the Performance (Home) screen. You only need the Zone setup when you using the Montage as your master keyboard controller.

Hope that helps.

After thoughts...
If "Keyboard Control" is deactivated, it also deactivates the Montage from controlling this Part in any fashion... Upon rereading you post, you want use Montage to control that Part but just not trigger it with the Keyboard... (Is that correct)? Let me think about that...

Upon rereading you post, you want use Montage to control that Part but just not trigger it with the Keyboard... (Is that correct)? Let me think about that...

Yes, that's what I mean!

Okay, I think I understand now.

Yes, you can control the Montage sound in PART 1 playing it from your external controller and simultaneously set it up so that the Montage does not trigger that sound. And you can control that PART without triggering it with the Montage keyboard.

Yes, you set the ZONE Switch ON for that PART, and you turn its INT SW = ON for that Zone, you also activate the Keyboard Control on the main screen. What will prevent the Montage from triggering that sound is setting the ZONE's Note Limits to G8-G8. This will allow you to control PART 1 with the Montage controls but you will not be able to trigger the sound via the keys because the Montage's keyboard is not transmitting to this PART (except for G8).

You can, of course, use PARTs 2-8 for playing Montage sounds from the Montage keys...

Okay, whew... You've completely hijacked Marcos' thread... (This really should be a separate question) but no worries. Sorry, I just didn't understand the question (until the fifth read through, my bad).

Sorry Marcos! I won't hijack again!
And thank you, Bad Mister! This is very helpfull!

Don't worry, Jeroen. your question and the answers by Bad Mister are interesting to me as well. Thanks a lot to Steve and Bad Mister for the advices. From that, I have the feeling that I at least should try my idea. I play mainly live with friends. For some songs, I would be plying the Montage only. For others, only piano. But (that's the point!) I'm dreaming playing piano on the 88 keys controller while playing at same time for instance organ sounds at the Montage - placed just above the 88-Keyboard. Of course, I could use a stage piano, but I want to profit from the great piano sounds I expect from the Montage. And the 15 kg weight of the Montage 6 is just fine for me.

Hi Bad Mister,

I'm sure many of us are in the same shue.I didn't want to spend over 6k for the Montage 8 as I have a Motif XF8 already so I bought a Montage 6 today and wanted to use the XF8 for master keyboard.I looked for answers for my question but I didn't find a proper one yet.You told some one that it is possible to control the Montage with "single mode" midi.I can't find single mode in Motif neither in Montage.Right now I can play just a part of the sounds of the Montage controlling it with the Motif.Is it a way to get the same sound out of the Montage 6 with the XF8?

Hi Len, Midi I/O to set single mode in Montage is in Utility > Settings > Advanced :

This setting have been add with the Montage OS 1.10, now the Montage is on OS 1.20, be sure to update your Montage on the last OS version.

You can stay also in mult mode by using the Motif XF8 Master mode with zone "on" and set each of the Motif XF 8 zones active with midi channels from 1 to 8.

I have a Motif XF8 and a Montage 7, i can play all the Montage performance like this.

"I like to play piano sounds on a piana keyboard. But I don't like to play e.g. accordion or violin on a piano keyboard."

Hi Marcos,
I am a live player as well. I use the Montage 8 as my master keyboard for parts 1-8.
I have two semi-balanced 3-channel keyboards on top and underneath it.
Via a midi-merger I use these inputs and did set the channels for these to Montage parts 9-11 and parts 12-14, leaving 15 and 16 spare for other midi devices.

I use the middle one (the Montage) for the complicated sounds, the lower for padding, organ, strings, brass, etc. And the top one for accents, solo's, etc.
On the lower keyboard I use it's own sustain controller. It works fine for me. And the big advantage to me is that I have only one top-controlling keyboard. All settings are created/done on the Montage. All you have to do is to press a set-list button and the entire setup is ready.

Not all "fully weighted", "piano action", etc. keybeds are created equal. I selected the Montage 7 on weight alone as I would prefer the Montage 8's keybed (action) over the Montage 7 - but could not see handling the extra weight on a weekly basis.

When testing the Montage 8 action, I tried fast runs - repeated notes - and other note passages that would be best suited for "synth action" keyboards. What I found was the Montage 8 had a very balanced keyboard action and was very responsive for a piano-action keyboard.

In contrast, I found the MOXF8 keybed to be very sluggish and not a satisfying balance (for me) between a piano controller and synth controller.

If you can handle the physical weight of the Montage 8 (or keep it in the studio) - I would suggest, if you have not already, try different parts (accordion, violin, etc).

You do mention the 61 is easier to carry - and this is certainly true. Since I went with the Montage 7 as an "easy to carry" compromise - I certainly agree with your leaning on this metric.

Testing the 88 note keybed of the Montage vs. competitors - I really favor the Montage. It would be difficult to find a controller which matches the response as the Balanced Hammer in the Montage, to my knowledge, is only used in more fully-fledged keyboards/workstations.

For me, there isn't a "great" piano-action MIDI controller with a high-end keybed from a major manufacturer. There may be "boutique" offerings - but cost will be a factor here.

Best of luck on your final choice as this is certainly a task of compromise between cost, weight, feel, and control/features (in the case of using an external MIDI controller, being "OK" with the control surface of the controller vs. the Montage while using the controller).