"I note that the Motif XS is still an expensive synth and if the additional synth engines make it a little more attractive than the Montage?"

Huh? Motif XS/XF has exactly ONE sound engine. AWM2.

The Motif "Classic" and ES had also exactly ONE sound engine: AWM2. They were expandable using PLG plug-in cards (VL, AN, DX), all of which were monotimbral. None of those engines were built-in. The Montage is the first one since the SY series to feature two full-blown multitimbral sound engines: AWM2 and FM-X (not counting the EX-5/7, because the additional engines were also monotimbral and mono/duophonic).

The good news, however, is this capture from one of the official Yamaha videos

seems to suggest that additional engines might be added to the Montage in the future (notice the four dots in TG block). But this hasn't been officially confirmed by Yamaha. So far!

Thanks Jan, I am very pleased to hear that about the voices and the graphic is very useful.

p.s I am not sure where I got my original information from (re: synth engine) but if I come across it again (and its from a rep source) I will post up.

T

In order to stream 16 channels of audio via USB will the Montage have to be connected as my primary audio interface? Therefore when in use and I require 16 channels of audio will I have to set the Montage as my primary ASIO driver in preferences in Cubase 8.5? I hope I have explained my question well enough. I believe Apple uses can aggregate their systems to avoid the above however on a PC (me) I don’t think we are so lucky.

The Montage is capable OS streaming 32 Audio bus outputs to your computer when you are using the Yamaha Steinberg USB driver v1.9.9. You are correct that Macintosh does have the capability to build an aggregate audio device to allow multiple audio devices to be handled simultaneously.

To be clear, it is not the track that has the output assignment, it's actually more flexible than that... It is the PART that has the OUTPUT assignment. Each of Montage's 16 synth Parts plus the AD Input Part can be routed to any of the 32 audio bus outputs. They are configured as Main L&R, plus 30 assignable outputs. The 30 assignable outputs can be configured as odd/even stereo pairs (USB1/2, USB3/4, USB5/6.... USB29/30) or an assignable can be set as a single individual output (USB1, USB2, USB3... USB30), as necessary to accomplish your audio recording requirements.

Each of the 16 synth Parts can have its own dual Insert Effect, the AD Input Part has its own dual Insert Effects... These Insert Effects are routed to the assignable output allow you to capture not only stereo instruments, but those mono Parts that use stereo Insertion Effects (for example, a B3 that uses the Rotary Speaker, or a Synth Lead that uses a Delay L,C,R, and so on).

Take a Drum kit Part for example, each Drum Key used can be assigned to a its own discrete USB bus output, if you wish to separately record Kick, snare, hihats, etc. so it is not just semantics when we say it is not Tracks that are routed to outputs, it is the Parts (tone generator) that are assigned to the bus outputs. Although you drums maybe recorded on a single track and use just a single Part, you can route any individual drum/percussion sound on its own output bus for audio recording. This is beyond most any hardware synth we are aware of, and opens the door to new workflows, new possibilities.

This busing system allows the user to put one or more passengers on each bus going toward the destination. The passengers are audio Parts from Montage, the buses are either single deck (mono) or double decker buses (stereo), each kind capable of carrying multiple passengers to the destination (your DAW) where you can record the result in pristine 44.1kHz, 24-bit resolution. If you opt to record at higher sample rates (up to 192kHz) you are limited to 4 stereo bus outputs at a time.

So on a Windows PC you will need to switch to using the Montage as your audio interface. Fortunately, Cubase and Montage support "hot swapping" of ASIO drivers, which means you will not have to power down, nor will you have to reboot Cubase to switch drivers.

If the above is required my next question is how many audio tracks can be streamed simultaneously via usb when the montage is not working as my primary soundcard audio interface i.e. just connected as a USB instrument. For example I believe the Kronos2 can stream x2 channels of audio via usb in the way I describe.

Sorry, I know little to nothing about how Kronos2 does anything, but if you are not using the Montage as your soundcard (audio interface) then it only sends audio to the analog outputs and there are the Main L&R plus two Assignable outputs which can be used as a stereo pair or configured as two separate mono output buses.

The Yamaha Steinberg USB driver uses a unique protocol that allows both MIDI and audio communication between Montage and the computer so all your MIDI and audio functions are handled through that single connection. This also allows the Montage to act as an audio and MIDI interface for one external device that is connected to its 5-pin MIDI jacks and to its AD Input jacks. This means one external device can send/receive MIDI data on a discreet port, and can be routed to the DAW (using Montage's extensive audio processing capabilities, dual insertion effect, etc.,) to its own discrete audio track. Additionally that external audio source can be used to modulate anything in the Montage's Motion Control Synthesis Engine.

So there is a distinct advantage to using the Montage as your soundcard over whatever you are currently using! The external audio can not only be a tempo source, it can be routed to any number of places within Montage's extensive matrix. You could use it to create Envelopes for interacting with other components in Montage... Example, the external audio could create an "envelope" for the Modulators in an FM-X stack to "follow" - result: each audio burst from the external device could increase/decrease the output level of these Modulators thus brightening or darkening the resulting timbre. You could use it to derive tempo.

You have Side Chain Modulation possibilities as well... Compression, Ring Modulation, Arpeggio. The benefits of using your Montage as your audio interface are many. But if you have another device you use for other reasons, dealing with switching drivers is a small price to pay (momentary inconvenience) for the possibilities availed to you when selecting Montage for that task.

The next question I have is regarding performance power and sound design.
I currently use an Access Virus TI2 for sound design and regularly run out of voices when designing complex patches to the extent that I honestly believe that I can get better performance from a well-designed VST. I would describe a complex patch as using 2-3 oscillators (typically pitched up/down octave(s)), x2 Filters, 5-7 modulation destinations, x 3 envelopes and perhaps 5-7 effects.

Please could you give a rough ball park estimate as to how many of the complex patches (as described above) I could run simultaneously on the Montage sending audio to my DAW – whether using the Montage as my primary sound card or not.

The theoretical maximums on Montage are massive in comparison. In one keyboard controlled Performance (8 Parts) you have 64 oscillators each with their own tuning capability, each with its on Filter (18 Types), FEG, AEG, PEG, etc. Each Part can have 8 oscillators, that how you can have 64; each Part can have 16 Control Set source/destination assignments via the controller matrix. Each Part has 24 'quick access' knobs and 8 assignable knobs, in addition to links to the Super Knob. Each of the 8 Parts has access to the System Reverb and Variation Effects, plus each has its own dual Insertion Effect. Each Part has a 3-band EQ pre the Insertion Effect, and a 2-band EQ post the Insert Effect block. The Insert Effects can themselves be multiple effects, and you can route an oscillator to one, the other or both of the two blocks!

People who try to figure out what something is going to sound like from what's "on paper" are only going to be among those most surprised/amazed at the capabilities and possibilities of what's on tap with Montage. If you "outgrow" the potential of Montage in 24 months... Well, I'll eat my hat (and those who know me know, I really love my hat!!!!) 🙂

Thanks Bad Meister,

It’s nice to know as a customer that Steinberg / Yamaha have got our backs with "hot swapping" of ASIO drivers’’ that don’t require a power down or reboot although on further reading of your reply, I do now recognize that it would be a very small price to pay for the audio bussing system that is integral to the Montage. I have even learned that I could control a desk top synth via midi routed to the Montage and then route analog out of said synth into the Montage analog ins which could really help with reducing glitches and processing!!

The theoretical maximums of the Montage are mouth-watering when you are coming from a back ground like mine (Maybe why I am asking so many of what you might perceive as 'duh' questions) . How you guys have managed to fit so much power into Montage and keep the price below £3000 (for 66 Keys) is wonderful.

I have read some really good things about VCM modelling technique in magazines such as SOS, reviews of Neve portico (I understand they will not be included) and that the VST’s are included in your high end Studio Mixing desks. I wonder then if my UAD analogy is correct (as per below) and could Montage users potentially run audio through these effects for a high quality mix and then print to Cubase?

‘’Another facet of the Montage that I find interesting is that of the included effects using the VCM tech. The idea of having Yamaha designed (UAD equivalent) emulations of vintage gear to process sound without further processing strain on my PC (nor the cost of UAD) is fantastic. Please can you confirm which VCM effects will be included with the Montage and whether the DSP architecture that is in place is designed so that it allocates enough power so that the user is guaranteed to be able to run a specific number of VCM effects instances even when running complex patches ?''

I am keen not to monopolize your forum time with my personal questions and the above will be the last before I make a commitment. Thank you for the response as they have really helped me to understand that the Montage is built for users with needs such as mine.
p.s. Definitely no hat eating, you have given plenty knowledge to this student.

BW

T

According to the data list the following VCM effects are included:
VCM Flanger
VCM Phaser Mono
VCM Phaser Stereo
VCM EQ 501
VCM Compressor
VCM Auto Wah
VCM Touch Wah
VCM Pedal Wah

Not sure if the new distortion effects introduced in the Tyros series and later in the Motif XF are also VCM.

I've never had any issues running 8 (max) dual insert effects + 4 system effects on Motif XS, and I'd be really surprised if it wasn't possible to run 16 (max) dual insert effects + system effects + A/D insert effects at once on the Montage. The last Yamaha synth that I can think of where you could actually have issues with maxing out the DSP was the Yamaha EX5/7.

Thanks Jan,

always good to hear from someone with first hand experience!

I wonder if Bad Meister can provide any more detail

T

Thanks for the question... The following VCM Effects are included in the Montage:
VCM Flanger
VCM Phaser Mono
VCM Phaser Stereo
VCM Compressor 376
VCM Auto Wah
VCM Touch Wah
VCM Pedal Wah
VCM EQ 501

Also included are all of the HD Reverbs and Guitar Effects that were added to the v1.50 firmware update to Motif XF. There are also a slew of new Effect types added as well. The Vocoder is included as well. The accuracy of VCM in recreating the now classic processors of my youth is uncanny (IMHO).
The compressors and the several of the Dynamic processors allow for Side Chain modulation... And an Envelope Follower is included.

Audio arriving via the A/D Input has the potential to be processed by the full compliment of Montage's Effect arsenal; as the AD Input has access to its own dual Insert block, and, if routed to the main outputs (L&R), can additionally use the System (Reverb and Variation) and Master Effect blocks. Audio returned via from the DAW, however, does not have the possibility of applying the dual Insert Effects. That said, the VCM Compressor does appear as an option among the Master Effect block.

The Montage has resources for simultaneously applying dual Insertion Effects on all 16 synth Parts, plus the AD Input Part.

Therefore, in an instance where you wish to process audio through Montage Effects, the most flexibility would be via the AD Input. Signal arriving from the DAW via USB (digital) can be processed (in isolation) through the System and Master Effects (but cannot be processed via the Inserts). This is very much the same routing as with mLAN and the FW implementation of previous Yamaha synths, except this is a full blown system with a 32-in/6-out interface for your computer via USB.