Sample memory does have a limit and you may have something loaded that exceeded that limit. this was posted by Bad Mister previously, may help.

If you already have Libraries installed then you must have an available Library slot and enough memory remaining to accommodate what you are attempting to install. If not, you will receive a Sample Memory Full message.
You can view how much of your Sample Memory is used by navigating to your WAVEFORM folder:
[UTILITY] > "Contents" > "Data Utiliy" > touch the "Waveform" folder; You Sample Memory used out of 1.8GB will be shown in the upper right corner.
Verify you have enough memory left before loading the file.

Memory works as follows:
approx 1.75~1.8GB total Sample Memory
2048 Waveforms per Library
Approx 8192 Samples per Library

Memory is basically filled on a which ever limit is reached first. If you run out of Sample slots before you use all the memory, you are still out of memory. If you exceed the number of Waveforms before you use all of the memory you are still out of memory...

Thank you Mark! The sample memory had 1.0Gb used and 6 pages of Waveforms - didn't seem enough to refuse to load 1 Library? Anyway, 3 of the pages of Waveforms were labelled 'Bozy' which I assumed to be the Bosendorfer, which wasn't loaded - so why were they there? I deleted all of those and got it down to 0.28 Gb used, and my Library then loaded OK. But why are Waveforms left behind? Is that deliberate? I've never had to do this before in 2 years, so why now? And there weren't anywhere near 2048 Waveforms - about 72 - and 7 of the 8 Library slots were available - so what on Earth is going on? Any ideas? Thanks!

Forgot to mention - another 6 boxes in the 'Waveforms' pages were occupied by something called 'Group1' - should I have 6 all the same?

If you are using 1.0GB before loading a library and the library consumes more than 0.75GB, then you'll get a memory full error. Sample size ("disk" allocation) seems like the most likely candidate for this message.

I do not know what's in your user area. Maybe you have waveforms there. I do not know what the bosendorfer samples are called - but if you ever had that library loaded and then imported Performances from the library to your user area - then you would have these samples in your user area even after deleting the library.

You may have important "stuff" in your user area - but you can back it up then initialize just the user area (delete just all user data after backup). This would clean out any residue and restore you back to just the space "Phat Analog 2" takes up -- assuming that is your only loaded Library.

Phat Analog II claims only 128MB of samples - so if that really is your only library - you have about 0.9GB worth of samples in your user area.

... also, I do not know exactly what "User Library" you're trying to load that is failing. If it is a library created from your user area and not a purchased library -- then it could have any amount of space in it. Maybe the JM tools can tell you how large the waveform usage is in library backups. If it's close to what you have now (0.9GB approx) then it's not going to fit on top of 1GB since 1.9GB > 1.75GB (1.75GB is max).

To put this in less technical terms:

The fire marshal says you can only have 175 people (1.75GB) in the Montage dance club. When you load a library - this is a group of people wanting to get into the Montage dance club. The bouncer has to look inside and see how many people are in there. So you need to know yourself - use that [UTILITY] feature in a previous response to check the waveform size (XXX/1.8GB) to have your bouncer check. Currently you say 100 people are in the building (1.0GB). If the bouncer looks at the group and sees there are over 75 people, he doesn't let them in. For you to understand why this happened, you need a way to tell how many people are in the group (in the library you're going to load). See if the JM tools count the number of people trying to get in. It's going to read "X.XX GB" - maybe a different number of significant digits (X.XXXGB or XXXMB or ...).

Back to the slightly technical side

100MB = 0.10GB
1000MB = 1GB

Assuming we're not using 1024MB = 1GB. Just keeping things simple.

Hello Jason - thanks, I get the arithmetic bit OK - my question is really - why now? I'm doing nothing different to what I've been doing for 2 years. The Library I'm trying to load has been loaded before - several times - with several other Libraries in place as well. How can Yamaha claim 8 Libraries when just 2 fills the entire space? The Libraries aren't new - I've had them for ages, and used them all several times. I understood that when I deleted a Library - Imported to User or not - the Waveforms went with it on the grounds that new loaded Libraries would come complete with their own - don't need anything else. So if I delete all Libraries, save my current User file and then delete the User files - leaving nothing but the Presets and MotifXF - and then delete all the Waveforms - initialise - I should get back to where I should be? One thought strikes me - before the MotifXF was made into Presets I had no problems at all. Now I do. That's seems too much of a coincidence to me - have Yamaha dropped an enormous clanger by doing that? I have always maintained that 1.8Gb these days is pathetic anyway - my silly little USB drive has 32Gb - so is it time for Yamaha to do something about it?

The memory type in a USB drive is different than the memory in Montage. It's been covered before - I won't link to the 10 or more previous threads which discuss the merits and drawbacks of the chosen memory type and size. No matter how many firmware updates we get - for the end of time, your Montage will only have this amount of memory so you must mange that space.

When you load a library - consider the user area in your calculation. The user area can be a garbage dump - so you need to clean the litter if you expect your libraries to fit. You may be deleting library slots - but you're not deleting your user area.

When you import the performance with custom Waveforms from library to user - you have two copies of the Waveforms. You've doubled the amount of space these Waveforms take. Then you delete the library - it only deletes the library Waveforms - not the user Waveforms. This is good - because it's the only way you have the user version of your copied library Performance survive in-tact. You need to delete the user version of the Performance to get rid of its custom waveform if you no longer want the waveform to consume space (part of the 1.75GB).

I think "why now?" is because you've accumulated Waveforms into your user area and you are not aware of this.

You should be able to look at your user area with the JM tools to get statistical information on the user area. Or you can know that if you've loaded a library that takes up 128MB - then the rest (1000MB - 128MB = 872MB) is how much space your user area takes up.

There are a couple of ways to get your sample area in the user area filled with large data:

1) Import a Performance from a library that has custom Waveforms (samples)
2) Record an audio song using the Performance recorder. This audio data takes up the same pool of 1.75GB.
3) Use of "Load File" (audio) from a USB stick as part of creating a new waveform (Element edit) or otherwise.

Your 872MB in user area (again, assuming your information about Libraries loaded is correct) comes from the above 1,2,3 list.

If you're still not sure why you're out of space - then there is still a gap in your understanding of how to account for the people inside the club (installed libraries, user area, audio files) and the library waiting to get in (get installed).

Montage is not organized like a typical hard disk where you can "see" a summary of all the files and space each takes up. You can see how much Library+User+Audio takes up but not necessarily a slice-and-dice of each section. The libraries you are trying to load do not always have all of the relevant information for calculating resource usage after install. However, right now we're just dealing with the total number in your "[UTILITY] > "Contents" > "Data Utiliy" > touch the "Waveform" folder" reading (the free space) vs the amount of library space your X7L you're trying to load is - which we're assuming is larger than 1.75GB - the free space. And chaining together assumptions - that your user area is taking up the bulk of this space.

I'm not going to say if 1.75GB is too big, too small, or just right. But even if the space was 64GB - you would eventually run into the same issue of garbage accumulation and run out of space. The first issue to attend to is for you to know what's taking up space on your keyboard and how to tidy that space up. Your posts do not seem to suggest you have a firm grasp yet.

After getting a firm grasp - you may still be left with seeing the amount of space for what you want access to at all times as too small -- but first lets get to a place of understanding. Hopefully we'll find that there is information you do not need and the space you have is sufficient to load what you want access to.

If a library has no samples and you have a free library slot available, you can for sure load that library. If it has samples then it may happen that you cannot load it if the sample space used by the existing libraries, the user area, and the new library together exceed 1.8 GB.

As Jason writes the user area can be a dumping ground. You can have unused waveforms, clean up duplicated waveforms etc. Getting an overview over were is what and cleaning up is difficult or even impossible in the Montage.

My recommendation: get the John Melas waveform editor. It is much more than what the name presumes. Specifically, it can delete unused waveforms, remove duplicated waveforms and also give you information about where the memory went. And you can freely move performances between libraries and user memory, thus cleaning up a reorganizing. The waveforms can follow the performances, thus you are really free...

I was able to clean up my sample memory to half its size without losing a single performance. And I now have 3 new library slots empty because I merged libraries. All done within half an hour...

Thanks people - my User area contains 309 User Pfs, the vast majority being cleaned up single Part Pfs from 'Ultimate Analog 2' - which has been deleted, both the Library and the User versions - I regularly delete all User Pfs once I've made a Library from them and stored it on the USB. My understanding is that when I delete a
Library the corresponding Waveforms are also deleted, and ditto with User files. This clearly isn't happening. But it should. I wondered if I was blinding myself with science that wasn't actually there?

On that basis, I deleted everything I could, leaving only the Presets and MotifXL - no Favourites, no User Pfs, no User Libraries. Then called up the Waveforms, which showed 0.25 of 1.8 used, which couldn't be right. So I deleted the lot - 0.0 of 1.8 used. As it should be. The Presets and MotifXF still work fine. So it would appear that the Waveforms do randomly accumulate, as you said Jason. Both you and Stefan imply that the User area may not be empty even though it shows nothing - why would Yamaha do that? I am uncertain as to their arithmetic though - 1.8Gb between 8 Libraries averages 225Mb per Library - for up to 640 Pfs each??? The Bosendorfer Library (16 Pfs) used up around 700Mb, so Yamaha are way off in their provisioning of space. Unexpected but true. Now that I know that, I'll keep an eye on the Waveforms in future. I see that to increase the 1.8Gb would mean a hardware change - unlikely - so I hope Yamaha may update the software to allow the USB to be used directly, as in the Tyros. May not be possible, but sounds as if it could be.

Thanks for the help, guys. Cleared my mind - even Montage can make mistakes! Certainly I do. But it stays right on top ...

Hello Stefan - regarding the John Melas tools, I am getting to know them a little - I need to clarify what I want to do though, otherwise I'll end up with vast lists of things which will be less useful than those on Montage. Refinement and selection is essential! I've not even looked at the Waveform Editor yet, but I will. Thanks!

Hi Rod, in your post above I still get the feeling, that the memory areas are still mixed together in your mind. Maybe the following helps: the Montage has room for 9 x 640 performances. 1 for user plus 8 for libraries. This is not in sample memory! It does not affect the amount of available sample memory at all. Neither it is affected by the amount of used sample memory. It is totally fixed!

If a library is using sample memory then you may not be able to load it if not enough sample memory is still free. But a different library which does not use samples at all (except for ROM samples) is guaranteed to load fine even is sample memory is full to the last byte.

Yamahas arithmetic is just fine because it is the trivial equation I wrote above. You may have all library slots used and all user performances used without using a single byte of sample memory - if you are only using ROM waveforms and/or FM. Which is true for many libraries. Others use ROM waveforms, FM, and bring a few small samples. Others like the Bosendorfer have a lot of samples. Thus how many libraries you can load depends on the amount of sample memory they bring... but again you can always load a library which does not bring samples if there is a free library slot.

And yes, the cleanup of waveforms is not automated. This is a valid decision: you might want to delete all performances using a certain waveform but still want to keep the waveform around for future use! I personally would appreciate if the Montage would offer some hint that a waveform is no longer used when the last performance using it is deleted, and then offer to remove the waveform. And maybe a „delete all unused waveforms“ function. But with the waveform editor this is all now possible and easy so the urgency on my side is gone... ?

Update - I have found the culprit, which was the Bosendorfer. I had used some Bosendorfer Pfs in with some of my own Pfs - the Library they were in (627 Pfs) was 939Mb. I deleted all the Bosendorfer Pfs (15) and the Library reduced to 23Mb. Staggering! Just 15 Pfs used 916Mb of sample memory. Keep that in mind!

Got you, Stefan. I hadn't actually considered that aspect - of using only Yamaha Montage Presets as source material for User Pfs. Makes perfect sense and explains what seemed to me to be wonky arithmetic. Montage does provide plenty of inspiration for doing just that ... but the grass is always greener etc: ... a point to bear in mind even so. I have amended my naming system to include a figure at the end, which is the number of Mb of sample memory used by that Library. Learned a lot of good stuff today ... thanks ... stay well ...

Waveforms do not randomly accumulate in the user area. They are placed, by your command, into the user area.

1) Import a Performance from a library that has custom Waveforms (samples)
2) Record an audio song using the Performance recorder. This audio data takes up the same pool of 1.75GB.
3) Use of "Load File" (audio) from a USB stick as part of creating a new waveform (Element edit) or otherwise.

For your Bosendorfer-in-the-user-area discovery, the sample ended up there by #1, importing a Performance or multiple Performances from the library.

You may have deleted the Library and thought somehow the user area would get cleaned up. However, Montage does what you tell it. Deleting the library doesn't touch the user area. A different path (you haven't mentioned) is that if a user area Performance relies on the library you just deleted for the waveform (note: sometimes you can copy - not import - a library performance into the user area by using [STORE] - and when this happens, the user performance will not contain the Waveform in the user area, but point to the Waveform in the library area instead) - then this user Performance will break and the Waveforms will not sound in such a user Performance because the associated Waveforms have been deleted. This is another example of the user area not getting touched by deleting a library.

There may be times you want to modify a Library Performance and change it to suit your needs. This will require somehow dealing with the changes you make in the user area since the user area is the only place you can make changes to Performances. If you plan on either deleting the source library from Montage or if you plan on taking your new edited Performance and place it into your own library, then you need to import to copy the Waveform to the user area. If you will, for the duration of your use of this modified Performance, keep the source library installed - then you can [STORE] a copy of the library Performance into your user area. This will not copy the waveform - the waveform will remain in the Library area and not make a copy of the Waveform in the user area. This is similar (actually the same) as what happens when you modify a preset Performance. You [STORE] your own copy. The major distinction here is that you cannot delete presets - so you do not have to worry about that (which is one reason why there is no "import" feature for presets). Libraries you can delete - so there needs to be a way to keep your user-area Performance in-tact in the event you want or need to delete a library.

Hello Jason - we might be a bit at cross-purposes. With the Bosendorfer as an example. As I have said, I routinely delete all User Pfs from time to time, usually in the process of restructuring Libraries, and I assumed the Waveforms would be deleted from the User area as well. But they weren't - this is why I said they randomly accumulate. I did put them there, of course - but they did not delete when I deleted the associated Pfs from the User area. I have not had the Bosendorfer loaded for at least 3 months now, but the Waveforms were still in the Waveform folder, together with an eclectic collection of other left-overs that had built up to over 1Gb, despite the User area being empty. I deleted some experimentally, and the total dropped to 939Mb - then I deleted all the 'Bozy' ones and the total dropped to 23.3Mb! Then I deleted all the rest, dropping the total to Zero to match the empty User area. I agree that I put them there - but Montage did not delete them when I deleted the associated Pfs (Libraries too).

I haven't tried to 'STORE' a modified Pf from a Library. I didn't know that would work! I've always patiently followed the 'Import to User' route. I'll give that a go when next on the Montage! I've decided to pull my whole set-up apart and tidy up the cables, eliminate the mixer and take the Korg out as well. Simplification is the name of the game. Might be a while before I get it all figured out ... keep well ...