So I load the library and the try the performance - The single piano is there with 4 elements (each element is a multi-sampled velocity layer) all switching at different velocities (despite the velocity ranges not showing as they should in the element edit windows and touch sensitivity not adjusting volume at all - more on that a different time!)

Suggestion, when you are experiencing an issue it is probably best to stop at the first indication of trouble... doing so will prevent the frustration of not being able to fix any other problem that arises down the road. Even if you fix something later, you’ll still have the issue of the Velocity Ranges not showing.

If you’ve loaded your Library and the “Velocity Ranges are not showing as they should”, STOP. You are either looking in the wrong place or your data is bad, in either case, STOP, figure out why this is the case. It is not likely that continuing will get you anything.

Why wouldn’t the Ranges be showing? That should be your question.
Please, tell us where you are looking and let’s see if we can’t understand why they are not showing.

Also a Library is ROM. ROM is short for Read Only Memory.
The User Bank is your RAM work area.
Yes, you must import data from ROM to RAM in order to change the data.
But you need to find out if what you currently have in your ROM (LIBRARY) is correct.

To see your Element Velocity Ranges...
recall the Library Performance
Press [EDIT]
Press [PART SELECT 1] to view your instrument
Touch “All” - along the bottom of the Part Edit screen are your Elements 1-8, and All
“All” will show the overview of your Elements including their XA CONTROL status, the Waveform, the Velocity and Note Ranges.

Let us know.

Hi Bad Mister. It seems to be a design of the sample robot software. So basically for the loaded library, I choose the created performance by samplerobot. I then go to EDIT, choose each ELEMENT (there are 4 layers (elements) in this case as there were 4 velocity multisamples) and look at each of the VELOCITY RANGES on the screen. Each element has a velocity range of 1-127. To assist with further information, because there is some interesting things happening with sample robot......

1) When i play the keys - all ELEMENT (1-4) indicators flash no matter what velocity
2) As a test I set all velocity ranges to the same as Samplerobot set - when this is done I can see each element indicator light and move up or down triggering as I play harder or softer which is all correct (but not set by samplerobot that way) - (Example set element 1 velocity range from 0-32 then element 2 to 33-61 and so on)
3) To put a spanner in no.2: if I set a velocity range different to that recorded by sample robot - so for example - ELEMENT 1 was recorded from velocity 0-32 but I set the velocity range from 0-41 on the screen - the sample of ELEMENT1 stops playing when I hit a velocity beyond its original multisample sample range (so in this case between 32 and 41 there is no sound). This indicates the multi-sample underneath has its own velocity trigger information of which can not be accessed on the keyboard and therefore possibly why the velocity ranges on the screen in the element view are all set to 1-127 but then that is misleading.

I am wonder if this is somehow linked to the error importing from the library because of how samplerobot has handled the multisample data? Could be a few things I guess in the software of either product. Hopefully this helps you consider what could be at fault here Bad Mister and your famous knowledge and assistance would be appreciated.

So I wanted to add some more information to this as I got chance to look a little further. So as per above - in the library file the 4 ELEMENTS (each element a different Velocity layer) is all there and triggering. If I look at the osc source for each element I can see on the screen the multi-samples for each velocity layer available to choose from in the library file.

However when I have imported the file to user from Library using the Library Import feature - If I then go to to the user sound and look at the single element that is left working it is only the first velocity layer. So if I then try and rebuild the other elements from the velocity multi-samples - they are not there in user to choose from and can see only the first velocity layer in the sample list. So the data clearly isn't being transferred across.

Sounds to me you may be mixing up the multi-samples (Key Banks) with Elements. Sorry, I’m not at my gear now and Sample Robot is new to me, as well. I promise to take a closer look at this soon. In the meantime.... Here is a bit of background that may demystify some of this for you... the Sample is first edited in a KeyBank (a set on Key and Velocity Ranges). A Sample with a Key Range and a Velocity Range is a KEYBANK.

But a Waveform, in MONTAGE, can be made up of as many as 256 samples (KeyBanks)... KeyBanks are defined by a Key Range and a Velocity Range. So a Waveform is, most often, a collection of sample KeyBanks.

For example, if you sampled every Key of a Suitcase Rhodes 88 piano, A-1 through C7, you would have a set of 88 samples. Let’s say they were each assigned one Key (their namesake) and were recorded by using a light strike. You might name this Waveform “EP_Soft”. 88 KeyBanks.

Next you create a second Waveform, again sampling each of the 88 Keys, A-1 thtough C7, and you record this as the hard barking Rhodes sound. You might name this Waveform “EP_Bark”. 88 KeyBanks.

When you go to use these Waveforms, in a MONTAGE “PART” - a MONTAGE AWM2 Part can use one Waveform per Element. So to construct an electric piano that plays these properly, you would need to select both (2) Waveforms - meaning a two Element construct. And then, you can choose to use as much of each as you would like. Doing so would allow you create an electric piano sound that switches to the barking tonal quality by how you set the Part’s Element VELOCITY RANGE.

Now here comes the important details:
If you set velocity limits at the KeyBank level of the architecture, say you limited your sample’s KeyBank Velocity to 1-60; then the first Waveform, “EP_Soft”, would only have a partial sound... you couldn’t then get this to playback at all velocities.... by limiting it here you restrict its usefulness when programming at the Part level of the architecture.

By setting your Sample’s Range settings, you expand or limit what is available to the Element when it attempts to access this Waveform.

Put another way, if your sample KeyBank data doesn’t support velocities higher than 60, using it in a Part where you need it to sound through to velocity of 100... because the KeyBank has no data to contribute when a velocity of 100 is requested, no sound will occur.

Extra Credit: if you set the KeyBank settings so the the sample’s Key Range is C3-C3, that sample can only sound when C3 is pressed (easy enough)...
however, if I set that KeyBank range to C3-C4, that sample can sound and be repitched to cover the octave of notes from middle “C” to the “C” an octave higher.

When you attempt to use that Waveform limited to just C3-C3, in a Performance Part... where you now use the Part’s Element parameters to access the Waveform.... you can only get a response when C3 is triggered. It will not, it cannot, reproduce any other pitch. But if you had set the KeyBank to cover C3-C4, then when an Element points to it, it can access that audio when those keys are pressed. You might choose to use just C3-F3 (that could be supported) because behind the scenes, the KeyBank settings support it.

So the Ranges set for the KeyBank determine what is available for the Part’s Element to use.
The KeyBank Range must support what the Part Element is requesting.

By setting the Velocity Limit at the Sample Level to all velocities, you can then *choice* how much Soft Strike to use versus how much Bark Strike, when combining these two Waveforms in a Part as Elem1 and Elem2, respectively. You do this by editing the Part’s Elements, not the Waveform.

You could create a Performance Part where the bark doesn’t occur until a velocity of 101 was reached, all velocities below that could be set to trigger the other Element. In another Performance creation you might choose to program a Part’s Elem1 (Soft), through to velocities of 120, and the ‘bark’ Element 2 to take over at 121-127. These would play very differently.

That’s the background. Hope it helps. It is not clear to me what you were attempting to build... but there are several sets of Range parameters that must be understood when working on the Sample > KeyBank > Waveform > Element > Part > Performance construction.

Hi Bad Mister, thanks for your explanation - it is my wording that is a little misleading as I am used to dealing with many different products and their names for different features etc.

What I have said is still applicable but can change the names to make more sense for you to know what i'm up to.. so...Based on what you have written I can explain:

Samplerobot has created the KEYBANKS for each velocity range and there is a sampled note every 2nd note in each KEYBANK. It then creates the library and the single performance. This is simple enough and clear.

I can load that library file and there to see is the 4 PERFORMANCE (piano) available to choose. The piano voice I have sampled with 4 layers in Samplerobot plays and when I go to ELEMENT level to see what is there there are indeed 4 ELEMENTS and each one has been assigned a KEYBANK with the title of the velocity range it was sampled at.

At this point I want to be able to edit and save it in the product (because you can not edit and then store in the library of course) and remove the library to make a complete fresh library. Of course I want my sound to have all the KEYBANKS linked with it So, I use the LIBRARY IMPORT Feature and import the piano into the USER section.

I then go to USER and try to play the sound and only 1 ELEMENT is active and the other 3 are missing. Even if I go o choose the other KEYBANKS for the oscillators they have not moved into USER to choose them only the first fo the KEYBANKS has gone across hence only one element working.

Correct me if I am wrong but the KEYBANKS are supposed to move with the sound when used via Library IMPORT to they all stay linked together?

Please let me know if anything here is wrong as such. I have a feeling this is likely to be a SAMPLEROBOT key bank issue.

Just had the same happen to me. Will look again tomorrow but presently at a loss. Any help on this???

KEITH,
I await a response from Sample Robot support as it seems support knowledge is limited on secondary software to the Montage. i am lost on this one.
I wish SR had better support and I do hope to hear back from them shortly..

What version of SampleRobot are you running? The current version is 6.0.3.0. I am in contact with the SampleRobot guys and they say that this issues was fixed in 6.0.3.0.

Ahh, the distribution model for SampleRobot makes it difficult to stay on top of version releases. Going to yamahamusicsoft and going through a process to download. There doesn't seem to be a channel for announcing new versions or an easy way to see what the version is you are downloading.

My version is 6.0.1.0 downloaded soon after the announcement of SampleRobot for Montage.

The software itself does not have an update facility that I could find.

Therefore, it would be helpful to have some channel to become aware of new versions.

I'm assuming if I go to yamahamusicsoft.com and re-download SampleRobot for Montage - I'll get a newer version (?)

I had big time trouble with 6.0.1.0 but after contacting Christian he told me that there was a new update 6.0.3.0 which was up at yamahamusicsoft.com. I ended up upgrading to the full version of Samplerobot Pro 6 and on the help part there's a check for updates option which may or may not be in the Montage only version of SR.

The latest version on YamahaMusicSoft is indeed newer than the one I installed. I would suggest, if your version is less than 6.0.3.0, to navigate to YamahaMusicSoft and download the latest version.

1) https://www.yamahamusicsoft.com/samplerobot/
2) Login to your YamahaMusicSoft account
3) Should recognize you've already registered and start a new download (or maybe you have to click a button)

For me, the ZIP file shows:

Win Version: SampleRobotSetup_Montage_6.0.3.0.EXE
Mac Version: SampleRobotSetup_Montage_6.0.3.0.DMG

You may want to un-install the previous version before trusting the installer will either do a proper in-place upgrade or will handle the un-install for you.

There are no release notes in the ZIP file for 6.0.3.0 or I would put those up here.

Still, this is no silver bullet as one of these threads starts with a Mac user using 6.0.3.0 and is having issue.