Yamaha has to field this but I don't see new engines as a likely addition to the current product.

Yamaha has to field this but I don't see new engines as a likely addition to the current product.

I understand. Ok, just want to know, that's all.

Another thing, as I'm a bit in EDM area, will I be able to edit my custom recorded arps directly in the Montage? I couldn't find that described in the manual. Please let me know if you have info about that one. Hard to find that on YouTube.

Currently there is nothing that can create all the ARP types that are internal to the keyboard (presets). There are some "tricks" some ARPs employ that we currently do not have a way to produce either with software external to the keyboard or internal.

That said, you can do some "rudimentary" arpeggio creation on the Montage. Editing is not something you can really do because Montage has the arpeggio transmission removed (this is a car analogy) -- really, the sequencer is removed - which would handle being able to edit note lengths, gate times, note-by-note step and editing. You'll need a computer if you want to do any serious editing. Otherwise, your editing technique is re-recording the ARP as an edit technique (start over).

I haven't played with the new recorder features - but you may be able to do more incremental ARP recording on-board now.

There really isn't a great system to surgically edit MIDI on Montage no matter how you cut it. A computer of some type would be a necessity. Perhaps a tablet will do and not add much workflow bulk vs. if it was all available on-board Montage.

Thanks for your detailed answers!

I begin to grasp the whole concept. Well then, maybe some future OS update/upgrade will add more control over the arps, or even include step recording. That would be a killer addition to already present sequence motion functionality.

Thanks.

Which is why you should concentrate on not what it, or you, cannot do, but on what you can do. Forgive me, but creating the advanced chord recognition functions is not something you’ll miss necessarily, (unless your goal was to market Arpeggio content for general consumption).

The concept is you can use the Arp function, as it is, to accomplish your music in a more specific way. The Arp creation tools you are given can do much, if not most, of what you’ll need to do... using the standard control methods (major, minor, dominant, augmented, diminished or exactly what you intend!)

The MONTAGE does not have an editable Sequencer where you can correct wrong notes, fix event velocity or duration or do that kind of individual event edit, the type edit that is Arp Edit is done as a real-time Function. If you view Arps as pre-recorded MIDI event data that can be manipulated by real-time interactions with the keyboard, then you can ‘edit’ them. The Arp Play FX let you ‘edit’ how the phrases references the Tempo, it lets you adjust/control velocity of the phrase (even by how you touch the keys), it lets you adjust/control the duration (gate time) of the notes in the phrase.

But these edits are applicable in real time, which is more useful in a practical sense... so saying that you can’t edit, has to get an asterisk. You can edit Arps. The Event data used to create Arps simply needs to placed on a Track of the MONTAGE player... what you do to get it there is up to you. Play it / load it.

So the discussion needs to separate Arp creation where the type of editing is event based (done offline) in preparation of the Arp, the other is the real-time manipulation of the Arp phrase’s events once it actually exists.

Any MIDI phrase can be imported or created in MONTAGE and converted to an Arp... as long as it meets the basic requirements.
Requirement: A maximum of sixteen unique Note numbers can be managed by an Arp phrase.

Record the phrase you would like to use as an Arpeggio. This can be done on Montage, or in your favorite DAW.
If recorded in the MONTAGE, you can open “MONTAGE CONNECT” to drag and drop your MIDI data into your favorite DAW if you need to “edit” it. (MONTAGE comes with Cubase AI, which does Step Record, btw, but any DAW will do). Edit your data as you require, save as a .MID File to a USB stick... load it to your MONTAGE SONG folder.

Once the data is loaded to the MONTAGE PLAY/REC you can import the track and convert it to an Arp phrase. Each User Bank can hold 256 User Arps... which means each Library can contain 256 User Arps. There are 8 Libraries.
You can convert the .MID data using “Normal”, “Fixed”, “Orginal Note” CONVERT TYPES.

“Fixed note” plays exactly as you played it
“Original note” plays as you played only it adjusts to chords/key

How *you* setup and use the Arpeggio function is entirely up to you.

Maybe don't focus on the limitations, but they're important to realize as you are in a position of purchasing new gear and should be well informed of how its features relate to your question -- to EDIT an arpeggio on Montage without a computer. Versus previous generations (which is good to reference because you may have experience with Motif) - the stated differences exist.

Although there are things you can do on board (like I mentioned - "surgical" is not available - but there are some things you can do), the push this generation is to use a DAW. A fully capable one to "replace" the features of editing arpeggios inside the instrument (as in the past) is available, for free, with purchase of Montage.

The suggestion for full arpeggio editing is to change your workflow and use a DAW or other MIDI editing software.

As mentioned elsewhere - it is unlikely that a sequencer will appear in Montage which would drastically change the general workflow in place.

you might need to hold your breath long time to get those features if ever.

Well, maybe, maybe not. But I do not want to be unrealistic with my expectations. Montage is a specific concept and it is up to me to decide if it fits my current workflow.

So the discussion needs to separate Arp creation where the type of editing is event based (done offline) in preparation of the Arp, the other is the real-time manipulation of the Arp phrase’s events once it actually exists.

This is one of the key points here. In the current state of the Montage OS, I can use it 'one-way', which is an option. That means using it as a 'motif' inspiration and sketching & recording in DAW. And afterward, construct all the arpeggios and step sequencing in the DAW.

Which is why you should concentrate on not what it, or you, cannot do, but on what you can do. Forgive me, but creating the advanced chord recognition functions is not something you’ll miss necessarily, (unless your goal was to market Arpeggio content for general consumption).

Actually, that is not my main problem. But it could speed up the production process a bit.

But there is an option. To use an external pattern generator connected to Montage. Some arpeggio app or similar. And work from PC ---> Montage exclusively. In that way, I'll be able to use Montage as a sound generator. And use super knob for filter sweeps etc.

Maybe don't focus on the limitations, but they're important to realize as you are in a position of purchasing new gear and should be well informed of how its features relate to your question -- to EDIT an arpeggio on Montage without a computer. Versus previous generations (which is good to reference because you may have experience with Motif) - the stated differences exist.

Although there are things you can do on board (like I mentioned - "surgical" is not available - but there are some things you can do), the push this generation is to use a DAW. A fully capable one to "replace" the features of editing arpeggios inside the instrument (as in the past) is available, for free, with purchase of Montage.

The suggestion for full arpeggio editing is to change your workflow and use a DAW or other MIDI editing software.

As mentioned elsewhere - it is unlikely that a sequencer will appear in Montage which would drastically change the general workflow in place.

That concludes the whole picture. My main objective was to eliminate or minimize, the usage of the DAW. Therefore I narrowed my candidates to Motif XF (Moxf) and/or Montage.

Thank you all for valuable inputs.

Cheers.

You will not minimize usage of a DAW with Montage. I repeat you will not minimize usage of a DAW. The Montage concept from the beginning is DAW dependent. thats why there is no onboard sequencing or arp creation. This is why Bad Mister commented a bunch about creation arpeggios as midi files then importing them. No Yamaha it isnt a good concept.

If you want to be independent of the DAW you need to go the route of external hardware sequencers and synths (for VA).

Yes, I got that. I'm looking at Motif XF right now. Very hard to find a new one, not even a second hand on eBay.

About editing arpeggios on the workstation.
The workstation with a sequence editor(DAW style) is Roland FA.
It is not very convenient to edit anything on a workstation when you have a DAW next to you (so I consider this option as an extremely redundant - but it is implemented very well).

Another option is a phrase sequencer. An example of it can be found on Casio WX or MZ keyboards.

On Montage, the recorder has a loop option. In MIDI it provides three modes: replace, overdub and punch.
With some extra effort, the punch mode could be used for editing a short sequence.

About editing arpeggios on the workstation.
The workstation with a sequence editor(DAW style) is Roland FA.
It is not very convenient to edit anything on a workstation when you have a DAW next to you (so I consider this option as an extremely redundant - but it is implemented very well).

Another option is a phrase sequencer. An example of it can be found on Casio WX or MZ keyboards.

On Montage, the recorder has a loop option. In MIDI it provides three modes: replace, overdub and punch.
With some extra effort, the punch mode could be used for editing a short sequence.

Thanks, will consider that.