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Sampling Montage sounds to Sample Robot? Where am I going wrong?

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 Drew
Posts: 0
New Member
Topic starter
 

I am at a loss. Pardon my limited knowledge on MIDI, but as stated before, I never had use for it in my years as a live player so I ask you please be patient.

Setup
5 pin Midi and audio connections are connected from Montage to interface. Interface is connected to computer. Sample Robot sees correct Interface Midi out.

What are the midi/audio settings in the Montage to allow recording sounds to Sample Robot?

Is there a difference between using USB and 5-pin midi cables and how does this affect communication with Sample Robot?
a) If so, what are the differences specifically? Most interfaces only have 5 pin midi available as the usb port on the interface goes to the computer.
b)Do I need a USB to 5 pin cable?

I set the SR program change to 0, something you cannot set once in the SR wizard (defaults back to 1 after hilighting and changing). I still don't get the string patch I wish to sample. It defaults to a chorus piano and records the key intervals etc I entered in the wizard...just not the sound I wanted.

Any input would be most appreciated... cheers.

 
Posted : 28/08/2018 9:49 pm
Jason
Posts: 7930
Illustrious Member
 

I haven't used SampleRobot yet - so I cannot address why placing "0" in the wizard doesn't do what the tutorial says it should do - or why it doesn't "take".

I can say that if SampleRobot is recording anything that makes sense - even the wrong sound - but still right for that sound, then your MIDI is setup properly.

Since MIDI is "working" for you - there's not necessarily a need to know the background information - but here's some of that:

Imagine you could train your arm to strike any velocity at will. Imagine you could keep this up for all 88, 76, etc.. (how ever many keys your keyboard has) keys. In order to sample "all" of one sound - say a piano sound - which has say 8 velocity layers - you'd have to play each key 8 different times. For an 88 key keyboard that's playing 88x8=704 different notes. 8 times repeated for each note of the keyboard playing at the 8 different velocity levels. You'd have to hold down the key for the right amount of time to capture what you needed. This could take a very, very, very long time of you at the keyboard. It could be monotonous and taxing.

One function SampleRobot has is automating the part where the keyboard is struck and let go (at exact velocities) with your finger. Not only does SampleRobot take out the human error of trying to accomplish a specific velocity - but it also allows for you to go and do something else while an automated process (automatron, robot) handles that task for you. This is where MIDI comes in. MIDI is the way your keyboard is made to play notes at specific velocities and held so that the other part - the recording/sampling part - can sample in the result of striking a key (using MIDI).

I believe SampleRobot only uses Note-on (with velocity), Note-off and optionally program change (maybe MSB/LSB too) as the MIDI messages it supports. There's supposed to be a way to disable the program change part - which you're seeing some issue with - but otherwise the note-on and note-off part seems to be working fine. This means your general MIDI routing is fine.

There is no audio over the MIDI wire. The MIDI link's purpose is just to get the keyboard to start making noise and to stop making noise. There's a different path (other than MIDI) for the sound to get recorded.

Assuming either has a path to the PC - it doesn't matter if a 5-pin DIN MIDI cable is used or the USB-MIDI is used. Either will make the keyboard start making noise and stop making noise. There's no difference there.

If you're using Montage as your audio interface, then you're going to need to take the output of the sampled keyboard and route that audio output into the A/D input(s) of Montage. If the target keyboard has 5-pin MIDI - then the easiest thing (for me) would be to connect a 5-pin MIDI cable between Montage's MIDI OUT to the external keyboard's MIDI IN. Then use Montage-3 (port 3) as the target MIDI output. This will send SampleRobot's note-on/off messages through Montage through the 5-pin MIDI out connector towards your externally 5-pin DIN connected keyboard.

The tutorial for the Montage version of SampleRobot is strange because they show something other than Montage as the audio and MIDI interface. I personally think it would be better to customize a version which shows routing everything through Montage.

This assumes recording an external keyboard with a 5-pin MIDI connector. There are other configurations. If you're recording Montage's output (like you want to make a VSTi out of Montage) - then you would not have the external keyboard or audio input connections and would also not need to mess with the A/D input on/off switch or gain. Also, the MIDI output would be Montage-1 (Port 1), not Port 3 in this case.

In both cases - the digital outputs of Montage would be used for the audio interface. I do not show it in the picture, but the same USB cable that carries MIDI OUT to the keyboard (either keyboard Montage-1 for recording Montage itself or Montage-3 for recording an externally connected 5-pin DIN keyboard) also carries audio. Audio and MIDI are not related - even though the same cable carries both at the same time. USB is a unique interface which can have more than one "endpoint" running at the same time and each can carry a different stream of information (like MIDI and Audio).

 
Posted : 29/08/2018 3:12 am
Manuel
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
 

Hi,

I tried and I recorded the Montage CS80 performance with SampleRobot.

My settings were:

SampleRobot audio in device: Asio Fireface USB (as my interface is a RME Fireface 802)
SampleRobot MIDI out device: Montage-1 with channel 1 selected and no Program and Chg selected
Montage MIDI in/out: usb

 
Posted : 29/08/2018 8:09 am
 Drew
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
 

Thank you both for taking the time to state what some of you might call "the obvious"! 😀 Thanks to your contribution and my futzing around I am happily up and running!
Only question remaining is setting the right octave pitch for a sample of lets say 1 octave. How can I specifically set a zone as to avoid unnecessarily sampling unneeded notes.
Any input would be most helpful!

PS - Would love to have the input you provided devoted to a newbee subsection of this forum. I know there are others like me.
cheers,
Drew

 
Posted : 30/08/2018 9:14 pm
Jason
Posts: 7930
Illustrious Member
 

No problem. You'll find that most threads are dedicated to topics accessible to novice users.

 
Posted : 30/08/2018 9:32 pm
Manuel
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
 

Only question remaining is setting the right octave pitch for a sample of lets say 1 octave. How can I specifically set a zone as to avoid unnecessarily sampling unneeded notes.
Any input would be most helpful!

You have to select the notes MIDI numbers that I circled in the pic.

 
Posted : 31/08/2018 5:18 am
 Drew
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
 

A belated thank you to all.

 
Posted : 02/01/2019 6:32 pm
Darryl
Posts: 784
Prominent Member
 

Just in case someone plans on using Sample Robot to capture a VST Instrument like I plan to do, here is a link to instructions that Sample Robot support gave me:
http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/03/recording-virtual-instruments-with.html

 
Posted : 15/04/2019 6:58 pm
Jason
Posts: 7930
Illustrious Member
 

... which is also referenced in another Samplerobot thread: https://www.yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/samplerobot-how-to

Although it references a non-Montage version of SampleRobot while the one linked in the side-bar here: https://www.yamahasynth.com/montage-category/samplerobot-for-montage-sampling-a-midi-instrument

is more Montage/MODX-centric utilizing a later release of the software.

Often multiple sources can help.

 
Posted : 15/04/2019 8:50 pm
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