Well, it's not a studio synth unless you have all the computer gear and software to go with it. It's more of a very dynamic singular instrument. It's a stage/live performance synth. Just get both the Montage and Motif and then you'll have it all.

Hi Ryan,

DAW applications are primarily met for recording, be it song-pattern-sequencer-like mode. A DAW will definitely give you the power of the song/pattern/sequence-like mode you are used to in the Motif. In fact, you will have a lot more flexibility in a DAW environment than you had on the Motif board. If you are thinking about writing your own song and doing recording, a DAW environment is exactly what you need and where you want it to happen. You may be able to record an entire song on a on keyboard, but, try that on a DAW and you will never go back to doing it on a keyboard again. I believe the sequencer on any keyboard out there is more of a quick starting point where you can quick put your ideas together away from a computer; but, when you are ready to really record a song with multiple tracks for your drums, other instruments, and vocals, you will very much appreciate a DAW environment. I don't know of any keyboard that can do recording better than the most basic DAW out there. When it comes to efficiency and speed, you simply cannot compare the two worlds.

Having said that, the Montage comes with with Cubase AI, which is a powerful DAW. The combined power of your keyboard (soon to be your Montage) and a DAW is something you should experience. It will require some learning of course; but, if you are used to recording on the Motif and are familiar with the recording process, you will have a very short learning curve. Also, you can watch a couple of videos on YouTube and you will be well on your way.

I am certain Bad Mister can answer your question much better and should be able to guide in the right direction.

Good luck on the new board!

Montage is neither a production synth nor a workstation. It does not have a full blown sequencer and sampling capabilities. Do not let the "New Era, new Workflows, next level stuff" fool you. This is text book next level BS! Yamaha is already under heavy fire for the misguided instrument they introduced and trust me, the more time goes by and more and a more Motifs are gone from the sales floor it will get ugly. Yamaha will try to hook up as many users as possible on the crippled Montage bandwagon before upgrading it with a full version or introducing a new line (Geros is being rumored, a mix of Tyros/Motif/Montage) in a couple of years. No sane person would believe that it was impossible to integrate the same SEQ Motif had into the new instrument, which is a tale tell it's all marketing hype and money making decision. Yamaha should start including a laptop or even better - a desktop, with every Montage purchase because using it alone can't do much. You know how we say "less is more" when we talk about producing music? Well, in the Montage case they should have a punch line that goes "less is less". Congrats Yamaha for turning the intimate relationship between a person and an instrument into a threesome, the DAW being the integral third party!

Chris wrote:

Hi

If you are trying to make a song do this

1. create a performance with all your instruments
2. press record button (it takes you to the record panel)
3. turn on only the instruments you want to record
4. arm recording and hit play recording your part
5. now select different instruments and select record overdub
6. It will play back through but now you can record the next instrument
7. do this until satisfied (there is also replace and punch in)
8. save midi file put it in your daw play it back using the same performance - add extra effects, vocals whatever too- and record to audio. (does this have the ability to convert the midi to audio in the Montage?)

Its so easy what are you all griping about?

So I hit the rec button in performance mode and record some 700 hits of my bass drum (if I don't like 400 of them I could easily re-record them as you say) and then go to my rhythm guitar and so on instead of recording my drum hits for say, four measures, and then multiply them as many times as a want in a pattern mode, then do the same with the rest and then simply chain them all together in a song? What a time saving process of creating a song Montage has given us. Not having an onboard sequencer is like, among other things, having a car that can turn its steering wheel only to the right and you drive to your destination trying to find ways using only right turns. That's gonna be some commuting...

Bad Mister wrote:

Is there a DAW that can emulate a song and pattern track recording?

Most can, Cubase AI that comes with Montage can do both loop based (pattern-type) recording and linear (Song-type) recording - and has the added advantage of being able to record more tracks than the Montage, if the Montage had an internal sequencer. What most people miss about the difference between Motif and Montage... is that Motif used one PART, one Track, on one MIDI channel. The Montage is much (much) bigger... than that...

Upgrading the Full version (Cubase Pro 8) and the features get even more powerful and useful. Steinberg has a YouTube Channel, take a look at some of the possibilities... You will find tons of tutorials and features you may not be aware of...

In Montage a single playable sound can be as many as 8 PARTS. So doing the simple arithmetic you can see that two or three tracks would use all of the 16 PARTS. The Montage is not restricted to just One PART per MIDI channel, you may select a String Section Performance that features 7 PARTS divided so you can "perform" strings with multiple articulations "live". You can play a Brass Horn Section which allows you to do everything from sforzandos, to shakes, to drop offs, to pitch rips - all from one sound... instead of being limited to 8 Elements... you can play sounds that are the equivalent of 8 Motif XFs... the additional Elements (up to 64 in Performance) can be brought to bare as you need them. The Seattle Sections is 22 Elements for "performing" string parts, the CFX Concert Piano is 18 Elements - for details you've never experienced in playing a hardware synthesizer.

So working by recording audio is going to be apart of the workflow with Montage. MIDI is built around a 16 Channel system - and synths until now have been based around the 16 PART paradigm. The Montage breaks the Motif mold open and is "bigger" than that one PART per Channel thing. If you have not worked with a modern PRO Digital Audio Workstation, like Cubase (or Logic Pro, or Pro Tools, or Sonar, or Digital Performer, etc., etc) you will be amazed at how advanced and complete they are - and how AUDIO data can be very much treated like MIDI data.

How much time is going to take to learn a DAW to where it is not holding me back?

Impossible to answer - how long did it take you to learn to play? A lot less time than that... !!! Probably a couple of days. Once you get setup, and oriented it is not at all that difficult. There are, like learning anything, some things that you may find challenging. If you know basically what you want to accomplish - executing it is matter of making the technology work for you. Truly we have users of software from teens to old timers. Don't be one of those who stays away from technology... it is always evolving.

The Montage is not a Motif. We spent a lot of money changing the NAME to make that point clear.

The 32 Audio Bus Outputs of the Montage open up a new level of recording capability we think will be as compelling and useful for keyboard musicians interested in creating their own music as the original Motif was back in 2001 with its PATTERN > PATTERN CHAIN > SONG workflow. The workflow now is a bit different it is SELECT/DESIGN a program > record (as MIDI first if you wish) > EDIT/CORRECT your data on the computer > Render as AUDIO ... rinse and repeat.

you can keep your MIDI recordings in a folder (for a level of "undo") in case you change your mind about a particular Part's performance. You can always redo it.
When you have finished your composition in the DAW you can export it as a .MID file or mixdown the data as a stereo 44.1kHz 24-bit .wav and install your data to the Montage's FLASH memory, or simply stream it from a USB drive connected to the Montage's TO DEVICE port.

You can setup Cubase to record any number of measures you require, and set it to CYCLE record... works exactly like PATTERN mode in that regard. You can then correct or edit your data as MIDI if that is your desire (all the edit jobs and more are available in Cubase)... then you can to a degree never before available in a hardware music synthesizer route your PARTS to audio outputs using the cutting edge Effect processing that simply yields the best results available.

You can even do loop based recording with AUDIO Tracks. Since Yamaha acquired Steinberg back in 2004-5, many features have been included into Cubase that as a Motif user you will find familiar... the PLAY ORDER function (found in Cubase Pro 8) works exactly like PATTERN and PATTERN CHAIN, where you can define regions to playback, set the number of times each region plays, and then advance it to another lettered section A, B, C, A, A, B D, etc., etc., etc. If you have not been watching this may be news. But we plan on having many tutorials and video sessions - even live interactive webinars available here on YamahaSynth that deal with finding, learning and developing your own recording workflow.

It is not 2001, 2003, 2007 or even 2010 (the years the Motif, the ES, the XS and the XF were released) this is the new top dog, and it is different. But we are confident that for those looking forward, that this is the new era synthesizer with untapped potential.

I understand that you're being paid by Yamaha. I've been a Yamaha fan and user for more than I can remember. But stop with the "new era" crap! It's for basement producers and kids with laptops. A segment of the market that cannot afford the price tag. Nothing new is introduced in Montage as far as technology goes and Kronos X beats the hell out of it on specs.

Ryan wrote:

I have been doing a good amount of research in terms of what the most powerful synth workstations are. I had a few questions. I should know this from my research but it would be appreciated if someone could give me clarification on the difference between a synth workstation, a professional arranger, a music workstation, a production station, and a polyphonic analogue synth ? These are all labels given to the Yamaha Montage, Yamaha Motif series, Kurzweil Cp3k, Nord stage 2, Roland FA, korg kronos, korg Pa4x, and DSI OB-6. After researching I think the Montage and the Nord Stage 2 are very close in comparison, is this correct? And since the onboard sequencer is very important to me, I categorized the Motif, CP3k, FA, Kronos, Pa4x, and OB-6 as suitable to fit the bill for a workstation that can work alone or with a DAW, is this accurate? It really sucks in my mind that the Montage and the Stage 2 seem to be for more live playing and if one wants to do a loop based (pattern-type) recording and linear (Song-type) recording with either unit, they will have no choice but to use a DAW. If I go the route of keeping the Montage or switching to a Stage 2, what in your opinion is the winner between the two? I know this is a Yamaha based message board, but I was hoping to get some honest feedback in terms of the two. Also, can anyone help me with which might be, possibly from experience and/or knowledge, the optimal workstation with an onboard sequencer between the Motif xf, cp3k, kronos, Pa4x, FA and OB-6? Thank you for your help, it is greatly appreciated.

Go with Motif XF since it's the best way to compose, program, sequence, edit, mix and string a song together. Go with KronosX if you want better sounds and similar SEQ capabilities event though slightly limited compared to the Motif. You will need a DAW eventually for MIDI manipulation, recording, editing etc. DAWs have never been intended to replace your instrument so forget the Montage unless you're a mostly a live performer.

Dear Yamaha,
I'm in the process of buying a Montage 7. Could you recommend any dedicated hardware sequencers that could be hooked up in order to simulate the Motif workflow. Thanks a lot!

PS Sarcasm is intentional
PSS That purchase will never happen

Erased by Bernd #2

It's so much easier to do things like sequencing and Patterns in a DAW that it would be time well spent for you to learn a DAW. I think that's the reason that things that a DAW can do better were left out of the Montage…

Dick wrote:
Congrats Yamaha for turning the intimate relationship between a person and an instrument into a threesome, the DAW being the integral third party!

Menage a trois = Montage, I, DAW. LOL

I think that's the reason that things that a DAW can do better were left out of the Montage… I don't think so! The reason is economical. Montage is build for live...... But you need A daw ? This is obvious ! Nonsense at all. Paradoxes engendered by the economics over the ergonomics, that's all.

Let me say foremost that I have used DAW as a regular way of sequencing for years. That being said I see an onboard sequencer very useful and still theoretically more practical than DAW. Researching about the The Montage specs online I came across this forum and it never occurred to me that the onboard sequencer that was previously on the Motif is done away with. This is a mistake by the Yamaha company in my opinion. Now I know that the Montage is not labeled as a workstation, but it is misleading for the fact that it was marketed that this will be replaced by The Motif! Now we are in full circle of life where The Montage is just an advanced DX7 with other cool features. For that price of The Montage it should be a 21st century DX7 with a full on improved onboard sequencer. A all in one package is still conceptually ideal. The Montage has forced every Motif user to go on that trendy laptop train. Yamaha should improve in what they already have and don't make the workstation a relic. Let me inform the reader that the perfect way to sequence is the way you feel comfortable doing it. If some people feel comfortable sequencing on a keyboard why should Yamaha take that option away? Taking away something is not forward thinking, but building on what we already have is. Since life comes in full circle I have a prediction. In the late 80's The DX7II still needed an external hardware to sequence. Partly for this reason the all inclusive Korg M1 finally dethroned the DX7II.

Erased by Bernd #2