Hi Bad Mister,

Will you also answer the questions in this thread from

Joel (Monday, May 16 2016, 12:30 PM)
and from
Mike Lowell (Monday, May 16 2016, 03:33 PM)
and from
me (Monday, May 16 2016, 11:03 AM)
?

On my question:

Will there be an update very soon to set the receive channel of each part individually in a performance?

You answered:

There are reasons the engineers have done this, and they are already studying the ramifications of this. And they know (better than you or I) whether that is at all in the cards. We'll let you know.

When do you expect to hear something from the engineers?

Thanks (in advance) again!

I really don't understand why this feature was left out. Being able to select the MIDI Channel received & transmitted by each part of a performance is extremely valuable. This is exactly what Korg allows in there version of the Performance aka the Combi. It's extremely valuable and allows for tremendous routing capabilities. Here is to hoping yamaha engineers will fix this.

Bad Mister,
this makes sense, but there is a 3rd option, which we would love to see in an upcoming firmware update :

Hybrid Mode : record a multi part instrument (like the CFX Piano) and at the same time also have some of the amazing single part or even multi part instruments of Montage available. This would also allow to control the CFX piano from an external keyboard and play other sounds with the internal Keyboard in a live situation.

=> Individual MIDI RX channels in the performance could easily solve this issue.

I know, I'm only repeating this feature request, but for me, this is also a very important feature.

Also in a live situation, it is hardly feasible to switch the MIDI I/O mode between "Single" and "Multi", if you want to get out the maximum sounds of Montage.

P.S.:
Another solution, to solve this single/multi dilemma could be, to extend the possible number of elements per part. Then it might be possible to create a CFX piano as a single part instrument.

There are a lot of unanswered questions in this thread, which mainly come to this excurpt:

How can we use the Montage in MULTI-mode* and play a multi-part instrument like the CFX on just one midichannel from an external device?

*) MULTI-mode, so we can play other instruments (one or more parts) on other midichannels

Any news yet from the engineers at Yamaha's about this very important update?

@Jeroen has eloquently summarized this for me. From Logic I want to play a multi-part performance on 1-8 on one channel, and still add/record drums, bass and other instruments using that performance on 9-10. I am doing this now in Logic with Montage using track stacks for the multi-part sounds. I hope the VST will solve this.

Jeroen wrote:

There are a lot of unanswered questions in this thread, which mainly come to this excurpt:

How can we use the Montage in MULTI-mode* and play a multi-part instrument like the CFX on just one midichannel from an external device?

*) MULTI-mode, so we can play other instruments (one or more parts) on other midichannels

Any news yet from the engineers at Yamaha's about this very important update?

You could "play" the "CFX Concert" from the Montage controller by placing the Performance in Parts 1-4 under "Keyboard Control", you can play other instruments via MIDI In on Parts 9-16, they receive on channels 9-16, respectively. Part 5-8 could await with another Montage Performance merged with the CFX Concert, you could bring it (or them) in with Motion Control (Super/Assignable Knobs).

However, if your wish is to trigger the same "CFX Concert" piano from an *external controller* you will need to use a Master MIDI Keyboard Controller capable of sending on four channels simultaneously (assuming you still want to trigger other sounds) For example, a CF4 Stage, or a Motif XF each can trigger the CFX piano...nicely, in this mode. While this will satisfy triggering the tone generator, but using an external controller to trigger the Montage totally discounts the Motion Control functions of the instrument. And shows what I consider an "on paper" view of the instrument. I've played the Montage using this configuration (in response to these queries) transmitting on four channels, and while it sounds fine, I miss interacting with the sound directly. Your mileage may vary (and that is my point)... You can't know yet...

Until you actually play on the Montage, can you decide whether triggering it through Midi is satisfying or not; while it gets the notes to sound, it does not afford you the control over the Motion Control engine. Now this will vary from player to player, while theorizing how you'll fit it into your "old" workflow is an "on paper" exercise. If you find the addition of Motion Control not important (something you cannot do "on paper") then fine. It is not for everyone. But you cannot possibly make that decision until you try. I'm reading comments from new owners doing a complete 180 on the Super Knob (initially thought it a gimmick, only to find it compelling and essential...) your mileage will vary. But I'd be silly to listen to someone's opinion on ice cream before they try it.

Bottom line, you'll need a controller that can control multiple destinations simultaneously, in addition to multiple zone transmit. And what has not been mentioned is that your external controller's cc messages will not suffice.

And to add to the mix of good information and wild speculation: there are both stereo and mono versions of some of the pianos (and other instruments), if you don't hook up in stereo, you can/should opt to play mono versions. Yes, indeed, the stereo versions sound better but only when you are playing in stereo, that's a fact. The same, I'm afraid, holds true for multi Part Montage Performances.

There are multi-Part versions of the CFX piano, and there is a single Part version of the CFX, if you NEED to have the Montage replace your 16 Part multi-timbral synth, then you can opt to play the single Part version of CFX piano...which is a logical/practical strategy. Here's why:

You will, of course, have to decide for yourself, but if you are featuring the acoustic piano, this is the perfect opportunity to use the multi-Part version of the "CFX Concert" piano, but, seriously, if you're goal is to blend it in with fifteen other sounds, or layer it with a couple two-three other external modules, you probably will not hear/feel (appreciate) all the nuance and expression in that situation, so simply opt to play the single Part version of the CFX data. It's more appropriate in your use case.

Much ado about cake and eating it too. Choose the appropriate sound for what you are doing. If you're playing a solo piano piece or are working on a recording, use the ultimate version, but if you're playing by layering it with two or three other sounds simultaneously, think about it, you're not going to be able to discern the subtleties of the 18 Element version of this piano program, simply play the single Part 8 Element version. That's why it is included.

Your external controller does not have the SUPER KNOB, nor does it probably have the 8 multi-destination Assignable Knobs per Part... Until you've experienced what these can do (even on an acoustic piano) you're speculation is incomplete, premature, and completely theoretical (on paper).

Hope that helps. And thanks for the queries and requests. If we hear anything from engineering you'll hear it here first.

Hi Bad Mister,

Thanks again!

I can't wait to use the Superknob for the parts that I play on the Montage. 🙂

Yes, your answer helps (but not enough, unfortunatelly).

I ordered a Montage 6.
For me, that is to small for piano-playing.

So I need a masterkeyboard. That is something I don't want to change in my setup, because it has to be as lightweight as possible.

So I'll keep on hoping for an update.

Thanks in advance for your information.

Stephan wrote:

@Jeroen has eloquently summarized this for me. From Logic I want to play a multi-part performance on 1-8 on one channel, and still add/record drums, bass and other instruments using that performance on 9-10. I am doing this now in Logic with Montage using track stacks for the multi-part sounds. I hope the VST will solve this.

The VST will not help Logic, but there will be an AU tool as well - that will be on point for Logic.

Stephan, if you play the Montage keys to Logic and want to play a multi-Part Performance (single instrument, multiple Parts) naturally you will play it on one MIDI channel. You will then use the ability of your DAW to "Freeze" the data... (I'm not sure what they call it in Logic Pro but it is Freeze in Cubase) this allows you to keep your MIDI data (muted) yet playback a temporary audio rendering of your playing.

This allows you to reuse/retask your Montage hardware. This is a common workflow. And what the VST/AU tool will allow, is for you to do this in the same manner you do with any VST - have multiple instances of Montage. This can be accomplished in any of the more advanced DAW. Works for MOXF, Motif XF, will work for Montage.

For example, using the VST/AU routing scenario, you create multiple instances of the synth by "freezing" the MIDI data and using the temporary audio file in its stead, this frees the hardware to generate the next part. This is a pro workflow, been used for two decades now.

If you are working with Cubase Pro you can setup this type of routing scenario even without the VST utility (which will arrive later in the year), you do so by creating an "EXTERNAL INSTRUMENT" and making the Montage an External Plug-in. I'm quite sure this same routing scenario can be setup in Logic Pro. It is a matter of routing MIDI from the DAW track in such a way that you return the audio through the "virtual" audio lane. This allows external hardware to "FREEZE", process your virtual audio with plugin Effects, and even utilize Export Audio MIXDOWN (terms are different in Logic Pro, scenario is the same).

Thank you, Bad Mister!

Dear Bad Mister & other Montage users,

If I may add my 2 cents - I understand why all of the how to questions are being asked, and I understand why the engineers did things the way they did- we may not like it for ALL applications, but accept it for what it is-

I'm old school, and Phil will tease me for this (if I'm lucky), but I have a LOT of synths and the reason I have a LOT is because they are all unique. I am one of those crazy people who owns a Yamaha VL1-m - it is NOT multi-timbral and it is not polyphonic. It wasn't intended to be, so focus on what it does, which it is probably the most real-time expressive synth Yamaha has ever made, especially for unique "wind" sounds that don't sound "static".

I have a Yamaha FS1R and I think it is also a very cool piece - is it General MIDI or GM compatible? No, and I didn't buy it for that- I bought it because it is unique- NOTHING else on the market can do what it does- you can literally load a .wav file into computer software and it will convert and load into your FS1R so it can talk or sing polyphonic without the speed changing as you raise and lower pitch- a pretty cool thing. Is it a great multi-timbral synth? No, it isn't, but it wasn't designed for that.

And now we have the Montage. Yamaha has once again created a new way of thinking and a new way of "playing" a keyboard or synth. While I can see some being frustrated without the ability to set each part on a separate MIDI channel as you choose, it seems to me Yamaha has provided a workable solution for most applications.

One needs to think of the Montage in a new way - think of it as a new "instrument" that deserves to be a single "voice" if you will- a very complex-sounding, rich, expressive non-stagnant synth that you will ADD to your existing palette or arsenal of synthesizers.

If a user has a Motif and a Montage and no computer, don't complain (I'm not saying anyone has) that the Montage doesn't have a sequencer- use the Motif for that. If you need a powerful multi-timbral workstation, use the Motif for that and use the Montage as your "main voice" or featured instrument.

Most Logic users are aware of all of the beautiful and powerful soft-synths and all of the "Jam Pack" sounds included with Logic- use them and use the Montage for what it does best.

Rant over, I'm just trying to point out that the Montage is NOT your Motif and in order to bring synthesizers to the "next big thing", Yamaha has bravely broken the mold for the status quo and they are innovating a new workflow and way of thinking. For old-school people like me, change is hard, but it is also what excites me about synthesizers. The Montage is a whole new ballgame 🙂 Think of it as a single instrument that does what no other synth can- isn't that cool?

Sincerely,

Old School Steve

If we hear anything from engineering you'll hear it here first.

Any news yet?

Can we expect the firmware update in the near future or is assigning a midichannel for each part impossible by design?

I was wondering if somebody at Yamaha's could tell us more...

Thanks in advance!

This is a very confusing subject to people, and having wrestled with it recently myself (while converting my DCP Motif libraries to Montage
format), I can offer a simplified synopsis of what Bad Mister has already pointed out.

Montage can either respond as a single instrument (with MIDI I/O set to "Single"), or as a Multi-channel instrument (with MIDI I/O set to
"Multi"). You cannot have it both ways, however. It's either/or.

If you want to record the 8-part CFX piano performance into Logic (or whatever your DAW is) as one track (and why wouldn't you), you would
set Montage to "single" in MIDI I/O, record the part into Logic as MIDI and then record that resultant part as AN AUDIO TRACK into your DAW.
This frees you up to then record another performance's parts as individual tracks, on different Midi channels, by then setting Montage back to
MIDI I/O "Multi" and recording each part as MIDI. And again, when happy with the result, record all your individual MIDI parts as AUDIO TRACKS.
Just like they do it in the big time recording studios.

For live performabce involving another controller connected to the Montage, my recommendation is simply leave Montage in MIDI I/O "Single"
mode. This involves, perhaps, some rethinking on your part as a player. You would have to get used to the idea that you can only have one "sound"
at a time going on the Montage. Or you could do what I do...don't connect your controller keyboard to Montage at all. If you have two keyboards you
should have the ability to play the parts for your song on one or the other, or both at the same time, using two hands. That's what us old school guys have
done for years. Why make it so complicated?

As to if/when Yamaha engineers in Japan will address the fixed midi channel per part issue...neither Bad Mister nor me knows. If/when that
issue is addressed, it will be announced by Yamaha.

Hi David,

Thanks for your answer.

For me it's not complicated at all to layer sounds and play them on different keyboards.
I enjoy the sounds much more that way.
And my audience too 🙂

Ok, so maybe it will take a while for Yamaha to fix this midi receive issue.

In the meantime I will try a midi event processor to solve this problem for me. For example, I can than send on midi channel 16 from my Nord Stage and map the 'note on' to channel 5, 6, 7 and 8. That way I can play parts 1, 2 , 3 and 4 on the Montage itself and play part 5, 6, 7 and 8 and an extra part (9-15) on my Nord Stage, which can send out only on 2 channels at the same time.
I will be able to play the beautiful CFX on my Nord Stage, layer it with Strings and still have 4 parts to play on the Montage 6.

@BadMister. You mentioned there are multi-Part versions of the CFX piano, and there is a single Part version of the CFX, and we should just use the single part version to achieve the 16 part multi timbral synth functionality.
Now I've downloaded the Bosendorfer add-on and I want to use it in my DAW (in my case Logic X) along with several other instrument parts. I can't see any single Part version of the Bosendorfer... am I missing something here?

Also still trying to understand the reasons you gave why we should accept not being able to control midi receive channel per individual part and to be honest I really hope I'm missing something out here as it all sounds very doubtful. I'm being totally open to change my work flow but now it all looks like I have to create multiple tracks on different midi channels in my DAW just in order to control a multi-part instrument. No I don't want to work in single midi I/O mode as the performance will contain many other instruments besides the multi-part instrument which I want to control using different MIDI channels. Maybe I'm still misunderstanding the whole point but having to edit multiple midi tracks in my DAW (which all contain the exact same midi-information) just because the Montage cannot receive certain parts on one channel sounds like a flaw to me.