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Still no VST or computer software

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So strange that montage still do not have a Vst editor like all other synts, like Motif Fx. etc the list can be made loong...

Personally, I feel cheated on this matter.

There was alot of talk before the relase.
Then we got Montage Connect and that is not by far what I expect from a high end synth year 2016-2017.

Editing with Montage will give you neck pain.

You can not load and key map your own multi wave files in it.

No working Daw remote buttoms like rec play stop, and still the buttoms are there.

No fast way to sort sound libyres/user/Live Set and load save from the computer?

The intergration with the DAW is not that good. Imo

Yamahas development has really gone backwards regarding this matter.

I do not understand why people accept this.
And I really do not understand why Yamaha is fine with this.

Clearly made for the stage, not for DAW.

 
Posted : 11/11/2017 1:00 am
Joel
 Joel
Posts: 549
Honorable Member
 

Hello.

Editing with Montage will give you neck pain.

No problem for me since 1 year and half i have Montage, perhaps you need to change your position.

I agree that an editor will be fine too.

You can not load and key map your own multi wave files in it.

As far as i understand fine your phrase, that's false, you can load individual samples and made your "multi sample wave" directly on Montage and keymap it, set also velocity map,use the add keybank pad to add another sample to your waveform, i have explain it on my website , use the google translator tool on top banner (translator is not perfect but enough good to understand) :

http://www.moessieurs.com/user-waveform_montage.html

You have also Michael Tan video, it explain how to load one sample, simply use "add keybank" to load another one :

https://youtu.be/JXASiv3YfSE

At this way, i have not find a way to sync play/stop button with cubase that will be great.

You have a nice Peter Article about using Cubase quick control with Montage knob on the last Yamaha Music Production Guide :

http://www.easysounds.eu/MusicProductionGuide_2017_08_EN.pdf

 
Posted : 11/11/2017 8:04 am
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Topic starter
 

Hi Joel and thank you for your response.

Perhaps not false, maby not sufficiently explained by me.

Yes you can load waves and map them to make a drum.
You cant not load waves and make a multisampeld AWM instrument.

To make a instruments with start, stop, loop and key maped multi sampels you need 3th party program to do.
Like Jhon Melas software, that btw is made for Motif not Montage.

I do not think yamaha is sitting with Jhon Melas software when they do their libraries.

And yes I know montage is not a sampler.

My point is more the lack of Yamaha developed suporting computer software for montage.

No computer Editor of any kinde.
No Vst..
Only Montage Connect, that do not help me mutch.

Sens there is a VST editor for Motif, etc.,
I did expect a VST editor for Montage too.

Btw I love your website, a big thank you for that.;)

 
Posted : 11/11/2017 1:15 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

Thank you for your interest, and passion, about MONTAGE. We hear you and much of what you are concerned about is probably in the works, some of what you are concerned about may be things that are under study. And perhaps some are unnecessary. By way of comparison, this deep into the Motif-series history, things were still very much in a similar state. As you know by now MONTAGE is not Motif - a lot of it is based on Motif XF but we are talking DETAILS in this discussion. It is those differences that are important.

A lot of what is new (and different) about the instrument has changed the focus of what made sense for the Motif-series platform in terms of software... it evolved there over time, based a lot on how end users were using the instrument.

Since a traditional Voice Editor that managed samples naturally would need to retrofitted since Voice, Song and Pattern Mode no longer exist. The previous Yamaha Editors developed from being a separate Voice and Multi Editor, that required a host application to run, to a single Voice/Mixing Editor that can run integrated as a VSTi within compatible host DAWs or alone.

The Melas Motif Waveform Editor can be used to create files that MONTAGE can then convert. But you’re right, it is not specifically a MONTAGE Editor, it makes Motif XF data that can then be *read* by the MONTAGE. That is how *you* can make your own data.

The development editors that Yamaha programmers use are not a “product”.., there are major differences between a development utility and a product. If you don’t understand that then I have nothing that can give you that insight (in a single sentence).

Well, Voice Mode and Song/Pattern modes are gone. Everything is a Performance...( Yamaha never had a Performance Editor). Performances were taking pre-made Voices and combining them. A secondary level of programming. Taking a Preset piano and layering with a Preset string sound...

What happens in MONTAGE is instead of Voices being listed in a separate bank... that you then referenced from your MIXING setup, here you create a Part it is not referencing a Voice location - a Part, you just create it, as necessary. It exists in the Performance you create it in. If you want to use it in your next Performance, you can copy it there and it will be stored as a completely new, separate, set of data.

Graphic Editor versus Routing Scheme
The VSTi function as a graphic Interface is one thing... the VST routing as a recording tool is and has been available since day one. Setting up the MONTAGE as an “External Instrument” will allow you to address and route signal to and from the MONTAGE, taking advantage plugin Effects, to “Freeze” data and open up a second or third or fourth instance of MONTAGE, and even to use the “Export Audio Mixdown” features built-in to DAW (Cubase Pro, for example).

The Yamaha Editors did make this advanced routing integration available to users of the entry-level Cubase AI. But current situation with MONTAGE you’ll need the Pro version of the software for this advanced routing capability, at this time (My guess would be that research says that is already the case for most MONTAGE owners... that they are using the TOTL version of their DAW).

VST (Virtual Studio Technology) at its core is a method to include external hardware and plugins external to the DAW, in the DAW... it is a routing scheme.

With 32 audio bus Outputs via USB, you’ll want invest in the Pro version of whatever DAW you select... typically this inclusion of *external hardware* in the audio routing inside the computer software is found only in the more advanced versions of software DAWs. And having the potential for each Part to have its own stereo bus, each Part to have its own dual Insertion Effects that travel to its discreet Outputs, and that when you are performing on MONTAGE you can be morphing between audio buses

With Motif and MO series we were able to offer this advanced audio routing with the entry (free) version of the DAW software... we wanted to introduce users to the world of computer integration. The way Motif and MO series integrated with the DAW (like Cubase) was based on the architectures of those instruments. If you expanded with FW you could work with 8 stereo bus Outputs (FW16E), All MOX/MOXF users were introduced to the 4-In/2-Out USB Audio Interface built-in.

With MONTAGE you have a 32-In/6-Out Audio Interface built-in.
Outputting complete discreet stems of each MONTAGE Part is a breeze
Routings can be stored in a template and easily recalled
With the interaction between Parts available in the Synth engine and the ability to flexibly route Parts to audio outs, a lot of what you used to edit in your DAW as MIDI events is now edited by interacting with the synth engine... that is definitely a major difference.
Much can be done with the front panel Knobs and Sliders when it comes to controlling the Motion Control Synthesis Engine, that is a priority. Getting hands-on the instrument via Knob, Sliders, Foot Pedals, etc., etc., is a priority. Real time control and automation of FM as presented here is new. Morphing between active AWM2 Elements within a User programmable Synth Part is new.

The MONTAGE is a very active product... we can anticipate that when the improvements are made and are ready they will be announced here.

the MONTAGE experience... current situation... working with a DAW and setup to create a Mix, without typical menu jumping... the front panel gives you access to 24 Knob parameters plus the 8 Assign Knobs for each of the 16 Parts. You have Faders 1-8, 9-16. Youve got side-by-side Pan/Var/Rev Sends. You’ve got access to your EQ. Some times I feel we get used to the screen GUI so much that it takes you away from the direct hands-on approach. I find the hands-on is fun again. (Instead of moving a picture of a slider, I’m moving a slider.)

After working with the hands-on aspect as available in the firmware, I think a more informed software would result.

Again, we are always interested in how musicians are using the instruments. We, at the same time, have to continue to make users aware of some of the workflow tools that are already on offer. The initial focus is on working the hardware. Controller assignment and customization of same, is a key to making MONTAGE sounds a Part of your music .

 
Posted : 11/11/2017 2:50 pm
Joel
 Joel
Posts: 549
Honorable Member
 

Thank you Phil for your detailled answer as usual.

Thomas, you can map on the keyboard each keybank you import and also map velocity for each keybank; adjust volume, pan, tune (coarse and fine) ... to made an awm2 instrument.

The only thing you cannot do on Montage is select start/loop and end point.

And you can do this with another software than the waveform editor, most of common audio software editor can do ii think audacity free software can do it..

If i do not made mistake (perhaps i do) , montage can load wave file that contain this metadata (start/loop/end point) and use it, Phil correct me if i'm wrong.

At the end of Moessieurs webpage link i have an example with 4 audio samples for FX map in the same" waveform" that i have done for one Bruno Mars song
There is 4 keybank in this awm2 part but they are not loop, i do not need it for this song :

 
Posted : 11/11/2017 3:49 pm
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Hi and Thank you for your replays.

@Joel
No, I think you are are wrong here.

"Tune Coarse" is NOT the same as set base key.
(orginal Key for one of your multi-sampled waveforms)
It is tune and will give you Donald Duck effect.

You can not map and put base keys!

If you do not believe me.
Make an AWE on a more advanced multi sampled sound.
(Not on a basic wave sound as Sinus, saw etc, try piano or a pad sound)

With a new sampled key/wave/sampel every sixth key.

GL

But again my point is.
After more then a year.

No VSTi.
No fast way to sort sound libyres/user/Live Set and load save from the computer.
No fast way to save my music projects with all the sounds.

No way to load my own element/Osc multi sampels.
(you can make and play donald duck sounds from 1982 with a small keybord range.)

From Yamaha.

If you have the "development editors" it is not a long way to go or a hard work to do
to make a "Produkt", sens most of the work is already done.

If you don’t understand that then I have nothing that can give you that insight (in a single sentence).
Sens im a programmer.
😉

 
Posted : 16/11/2017 5:13 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

Thomas is correct. There are several things you cannot do when it comes to building a Waveform inside of MONTAGE and setting the original pitch in a Normal AWM2 Part is one of them, you cannot trim .wav, you cannot set Start Point/End Point/Loop Point, you cannot set one shot, reverse, or loop. These are functions you would find in a sampler. And are necessary for properly building a so-called Normal instrument Waveform.

Current situation the Melas Motif Wave Editor and the Motif XF are the current available means to create new AWM2 Waveforms for MONTAGE. They make data that can be imported (converted) to MONTAGE. When any announcement about this is made you will hear about it here.

 
Posted : 16/11/2017 5:43 pm
Joel
 Joel
Posts: 549
Honorable Member
 

Hi.
Yes i agree Thomas you can not put base keys on Montage and like Phill write, i have forget this point, you cannot set one shot, reverse or loop and trim, it need to be done on a software.
We can do some things but it is limited.

Thank you for your respective inputs 😉

 
Posted : 16/11/2017 6:19 pm
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