Hello Phil - much food for thought. I'd reckoned on SSS happening even between Performances, but the 'Part Select' idea is going a step further than I had intended. My understanding of it is hazy at best - all kinds of questions in this context come to mind! So I must first go and play with that possibility, as I don't know enough (anything!) about it! Thank you ... stay well ...

On my previous MO6 - I would use the faders to "switch" between voices of a performance. I would often run out of room to have all the voices "spread out" along the keyboard, so I would have to share notes (layer two voices on top of each other). For a given tune, only one of the two layered voices would be called for at one time - so I would default with the second (in appearance in the tune) voice as muted and first voice as normal volume. I'd place the two voices to switch between on adjacent faders so I could "twist" with one hand one voice up while bringing the other down and vice-versa.

Now that I have a Montage - I'm translating those setups over. My inclination was to use scenes to mute one part (which I have sonically matched to what was previously a voice on the MO6 for the same performance) and have another scene mute what was previously the adjacent fader (or voice) - now a different part.

What I found when recording the scene (shift + scene # button) - the part volume settings were not being saved/recalled. My initial reaction was frustration. Then I either milled around the interface, looked it up (manual), both, or ...

Eventually, I found that there's a setup screen for scenes which turns on/off what the scene saves. By "default" (at least what it did for me out of the box and I think after editing an initialized voice for AWM2) - it did not save the performance volumes. What I did was go into the setup screen and clicked everything to "on" or "save" or ... I'm not at the keyboard - but you get the idea. I instructed Montage to save everything in a scene.

This advice has already been given - but I'm walking through my process which may or may not match your stumbling block.

At the point of frustration (before learning what "the deal" was) - I considered using multiple performances. However, part of why I purchased the keyboard was because there were twice as many parts available as the MO6's voices. And it goes beyond that. Each part can have 8 elements which is twice as many elements as the MO6 had. So I can have 64 elements now vs. 16 elements previously.

Now the downside of using this method is that it defeats SSS. At the moment you hit the scene button and tell the part to go silent - it does. This includes if you're holding note(s). This is OK for me since it approximates what I was getting before and SSS is not a feature I'm gravitating to yet since I'm "stuck" in my possibly archaic system. Perhaps there's a way to setup a part so it will keep the volume if notes are held down until the "note off" of each held note through a scene change which affects volume. However, I'm not aware of how to do this and the feature may not exist. The only strange thing (and I did not notice this on the MO6 - although it may have been happening) - is that the release (which is sustained on some sounds) will continue to "trigger" the other part which is volume switched. What I mean is that if I have a part which continues to sound with Part 1 after I lift off the key (it "rings out") - when I switch to scene 2 and Part 2 is now at volume with volume of part 1 - it seems like Part 2 will continue to play the "ringing out" which started with Part 1. Thinking about it - since when the volume is low - I'm still triggering the voice - I'm not sure how this could NOT have triggered the other voices of the Mo6 - so maybe I'm just noticing it more. On the band stand I'm not sure it makes a difference although symphonic music is a little less forgiving than what I play.

Jason - just to clear up something - you have noticed (quite rightly) that using scenes to mute parts will cause them to instantly go silent. You can think of this like a mixing desk - pressing mute there will cut off the audio signal hence silence. You are though misinterpreting what SSS does. This feature only works between different performances - not within the same performance. You can achieve the same effect within a performance using the part select buttons but this is only applies to single parts. If your sounds are comprised of single parts then this method will work.

If your sounds are comprised of multiple parts (for instance you have a layered sound and then want to change to another layered sound without any cut off) this can be achieved using the ASW on/off settings at the element level of your parts and using the assign switches to effectively mute and unmute sounds. In this instance if you are holding a sound and turn its elements off with the assign switch the sound will not be "muted" until the next key press.

Hello to all - finally got back on the Montage! Try out this 'Part Select' business for changing sounds easily - not sure as my trumpet is a 3-part sound - anyway, decided to try it out using the 'Choir/Str/Pipe Org' sound to see how it works. I must have misunderstood it all again, because it doesn't work. The sound has 5 Parts, 2 Pad Choirs, 1 Str Ensemble, and 2 Organ Pipes. I switched on the 'Part Control' button, and pressed the Part Select buttons from 1 to 5, and sure enough the corresponding Part was highlighted on the screen, and the Pad Choir sounded when I pressed a key in Part 1. Snag is, the same Pad Choir sounded for every one of the 5 Part Select buttons. Huh? I noticed there were 4 Scene buttons lit, so tried pressing those, and the various Parts played in accordance with the Super Knob - just the same no matter which Part Select button I pressed. So, how I supposed it works is wrong, because it doesn't work like that! May I ask how it actually does work? I thought I had followed your instructions, Phil, but evidently not!

The Montage can have one Multi Part sound at a time.

If your one Multi Part sound, consists of 2 Pad Choirs, 1 String, and 2 Pipe Organ Parts - this means that the KBD CTRL icon is lit for all five Parts. If this is the case, you cannot use the Part Select buttons to switch between these sounds. The Part Select button allows you to switch between individual Single Parts... When KBD CTRL is active selecting any one of your five linked Parts is the same thing... They all play, you've linked them.

You could add a single synth lead sound (no KBD CTRL active) in Part 6. Touch any Part Select button 1-5 your Multi Part plays as you programmed it, press Part Select 6, just your synth lead in Part 6 will sound.

What you can do is create a condition where the Parts you want to sound are set to play together - you can do this with Assignable Knobs, Assignable Switches, Foot Controller, Ribbon Controller, MW, etc., etc. See/hear how "CFX + FM EP" is able to transition between acoustic and electric piano. You can "program" the 2 Pad Choirs to sound when the Super Knob is down, the Strings to sound when the Super Knob is at 12 o'clock, and just the Pipe Organs when the Super Knob is at maximum. That's possible using programming.

The Montage PERFORMANCE can have at maximum 16 Single Part sounds at a time. You can address them individually.
When addressing individual Parts - as when using the Montage as a 16-Part multi-timbral tone engine, that's when you can switch between sounds using the Part Select buttons.

And there is a middle ground.... You can have one Multi Part sound (with as many as 8 Parts under KBD CTRL) plus any and all remaining Parts can be setup as Single Part programs occupying one slot.
2/14 _ two KBD CTRL/fourteen Singles
3/13 _ three KBD CTRL/thirteen Singles
4/12
5/11
6/10
7/9
8/8 _ eight KBD CTRL/eight Singles

If your Multi Part KBD CTRL setup has two Parts, fourteen individual Single Parts will be available for direct Part Select.
If you have a two Part KBD CTRL program occupying Parts 1 and 2, and 14 other Single Parts... Pressing either PART SELECT 1 or 2 will cause your two Part KBD CTRL program to play... However pressing any other PART SELECT button 3-16 will cause that single Part to sound.

Please try to struggle through the "Performance and Live Set" article -

Example: you could combine the 2 Pad Choir and 2 Pipe Organ sounds into a Multu KBD CTRL situation - leave the single Part Strings as the individual... If you press any of the KBD CTRL Parts they all sound, you touch the String Part (no KBD CTRL) and only it will sound.

Hello Bad Mister, and thank you for your detailed analysis, most of which I understand (albeit imperfectly!) and I have grappled with the article on Performances and Live Sets in other contexts - it is involved! However, most of it concerns more complex problems than mine, which is basic (I would have thought!) To wit :- I have created a 3 Part trumpet suited to 'Fanfare for the Common Man' introduction. I want to bring in a change of timbre - I thought I could simply do an octave down on the 'Scene' buttons - but I can't (I have to ask why not?). Then perhaps I could do it with the 'Part Select' buttons - but I can't for reasons you've just explained. It seems if I have my trumpet as I want it, the Part Select buttons don't work, and to make them work I have to lose my trumpet. So I'm back to creating two trumpets, one an octave down, storing them and then saving as two Live Sets? Your alternative of in effect morphing with the SK is another thought (via a pedal). But my keyword is 'simplicity' so the Live Sets plan appeals most in the absence of any simpler method. I'm a bit surprised though, that such an apparently simple function should not be simply possible! Too sophisticated a machine, or a player not sophisticated enough? 🙂

Rod - just to check - what all is used in your performance in addition to the 3 parts allocated for trumpet and do these only take up 3 slots in the performance? I read in one of your earlier posts on this thread that there were 5 parts used. Remember that you can only have 8 parts used in total for multi parts that play simultaneously - ie you couldn't have a sound that uses 5 parts and then change to another sound with 5 parts (to effect an 8ve change). The superknob can be used to change between sounds but still within the limitations of a maximum of 8 parts in total under keyboard control.

I may be under thinking this but if the musical effect that you are after is of a phrase played and then played an 8ve lower is the simplest solution not just to move your hands down the keyboard?

To answer your question as to why an 8ve shift cannot be achieved with the scene buttons is simply that that is not a function that can be assigned to them.

"Octave down" would be a poor use of the Scene function, not if you don't have the time to execute such a recall. Usually such an activity is done by hand (literally, moving down an octave, or shifting the keyboard down an octave). I know the piece you mention, not familiar with this "octave down" part. But why not add a Part that is an octave down, have it remain silent and morph that sound in as you perform. And if necessary morph out the sound that's an octave up.

Here's some programs to study that can perhaps help you...
_ St Ensemble K - seemingly just a String sound, until you move the MW
_ PopHorns Dyn Shake - is more on point, it demonstrates different articulations brought in on-demand (AsSw1, AsSw2, Super Knob) Part 2 is one octave higher than the other Parts and is morphed in via Super Knob. Notice as you play only Part 1 is active until you activate the Super Knob (your Part would simply be down an octave instead); the articulations on the Assign Switches are momentary. You could make a Part to join in when an Assignable Switch was engaged (it could be your octave down Part)

I think using an XA switch is the best way to get the effect you are looking for. You'll need to create a performance with your three trumpet parts, then duplicate these parts with the Note Shift field on the Part Settings - Pitch screen set to -12. (There is a copy function available on the Performance screen when you tap on the Part name) All six parts should have the Keyboard Control icon lit. For each of the first three parts you'll need to go to the Edit Partx All Element - Osc screen and set the XA control field of each element to A.Sw Off. For the three octave down parts you'll need to go to this same screen and set all the XA control fields to A.SW 1 On. You can now toggle between the two sets of parts by pressing the Assign 1 button on the far left.

Hi Bad Mister,

I am new here and I really like the work you are doing here in the forum! It's really very helpful. Thanks!

As for thing discussed here: I saw in multiple threads (and this one) now the wish to be able to switch to a different scene and have the sounds continue sounding.

It's the same for me. I am using the Montage for live gigs and often play a bass in the left hand and a piano in the right hand. Then I want to switch to a solo sound in the right hand. I really would like the piano to continue sounding and not be interrupted suddenly!!!

From what you have written and from studying the manual I am reasonably sure that I understand the different possibilites you mention. So something is workable in all cases (and I did use the XA switch for the same on the MOXF). Still I think these are in all cases more or less workarounds for the wish expressed above. I personally think it's a pity that we have this very cool new feature of having easy to use "scenes" but have to go into the depth of programming to just to be able to let the sounds continue. The hardware can for sure do it (we would still use at most 8 parts) so it is "just" a matter of programming. I see that you are explaining the status quo but I certainly trust and hope that you are forwarding the feature request. And if Octave+/- existed per part and could be stored per scene as well that would the icing on the cake :-).

Thanks!

There is one more step involved in Sidneys suggestion and that is to ensure that the ASW1 isn't already assigned to affect another parameter. Go to Edit Part Control Assign then activate the Auto Select switch. When you press the ASW1 button it will show you if that is set to control a parameter already. If you find this is something that you don't want at this time press Delete in the bottom right hand corner and the ASW1 button will only turn the elements on and off.

Hello gentlemen, I do appreciate your answers and efforts to accommodate my wishes, but unwittingly I chose the most difficult case (a whole octave down) when I thought I was choosing the easiest! It was meant as an example for any of a hundred things! Of course you are right in that the correct way is simply play an octave lower ... oh, Live Sets doesn't work either - the global nature of octave down works on both, of course. I will experiment further along the lines suggested - the SK holds more attraction that the XA switches, I think, (thanks for the examples) though the latter are useful as additional tweakers. So thank you for persevering!

One last query on this - I am left with a redundant trumpet sound stored as a User Performance. I could delete it from Live Sets - but can find no way of doing so from User Performances? Surely there is a way, but the Manuals don't mention it and the 'Edit' page has no 'Delete' option. Would you point me in the right direction, please?

Page 178 of the Reference Manual
Page 7 of the Supplemental Manual ver 1.10

You can manage your USER bank data in [UTILITY] > "Contents" > "Data Utility" > select the PERFORMANCE folder, when you tap it it opens and shows you the Performances in your current User memory.

What the Supplemental Manual addresses is in version 1.10 the addition of being able to select multiple Performance titles simultaneously. Useful for when deleting several Performances.

Simply touch the Performance name to Rename or Delete as you desire.

.

There is another option for the 8ve shift if you were planning on placing the performances in live set slots - have one performance set as you originally described then edit this by note shifting the parts in the performance (Edit Common Pitch Note Shift) by - 12. Save this as a new performance then register the 2 of them to adjacent live set slots. In that way one screen press or button push will take you from your original performance to the same sound but an 8ve lower.