Thanks for the clarification Phil. I was speaking about the feature that SSS provides - of course SSS is not applicable within a single performance. And I also made mention along the lines that it would be nice if SSS-like behavior could be produced within the context of one performance by using scenes.

I did see the XA Control which is something new (to me) and mentally deferred learning about it until later. But using it in this context in order to mimic SSS is interesting. I see either A. SW1 or A. SW2 provide a similar function. In case anyone is "following along" - the Montage Reference manual discusses XA Control and A. SW1 / A. SW2 starting on page 117 (for "all element" view). Page 6 has a high-level overview of XA. Page 94 shows a picture of where the XA Control setting "lives" (within the context of a single element).

For now - I'm actually OK with the artifacts of using the "simple" scene change using volume since the artifacts are washed out by plenty of other things produced by the house and other band members. But repetition is one way to make A. SW1 go from "never done it - unknown" to "simple".

Fantastic use of the community, by the way. I wasn't going to touch XA Control until much later.

Hang in there, Rod. Although there is elegance in simplicity - there's also a lack of customizing (in most cases). In shaping my sound, I'm happy to have lots of knobs to turn even if I have to look up how to get to them or relate to them (almost) every time I program a new sound. The procedure will become clear. Sometimes writing a tutorial for yourself once you figure it out is helpful since it's generally easier to relate to your own instructions than others. Also, Yamaha often gives a few different ways to get to the same settings - so personalizing the procedure is beneficial.

Hello Phil, back on the Montage. I had already tried your suggestion of dropping the sound by -12semis in the 'Edit' page, but it made not the slightest difference. I just did it again, following your instructions (which were as I had done it), and again absolutely nothing happened. I have no idea why it doesn't work - I tried -3 and -7 with exactly the same result. Nothing. So I'm stumped unless you missed a vital step (because 'everyone knows that'?).

Thank you Bad Mister! I had already started writing my own 'User Manual' as Jason suggests, as being a better way of noting what I need to know and in the order I need to know it. It is extremely helpful, Jason, and I will continue with it. I am also half-inching your gen on the XA controls which, like you, I had rapidly backed away from! I am about to launch into the SK control system too. No doubt there will be more agony - for me, the Montage is not intuitive (how to delete a User Performance as kindly advised by ad Mister is a case in point). I have always found Yamaha products un-intuitive - you have to learn the routines by heart. But the results are generally worth the effort!

Hello Sidney, sorry to be out of order here, but I have read your Post again (and again!) about the XA method, and it does sound promising, but there is this problem of the note shift down in the Edit screen having no effect. If I can get that sorted, worth a go, even though I'm leaning towards the SK method first! As I have said, this octave-down business was intended as a simple example (yeah, sure!) and I have many other evil intentions regarding mangling pre-sets to fit what I'm trying to do. So the XAs limit me to just two mutations, whereas hopefully the SK can manage as many as 12?

Rod - page 60 of the reference manual shows you the edit screen that you should be on and the way to navigate to it. The parameter you are changing is Note Shift - is this the parameter you had edited in your performance?

Simply put, XA switches are best for on/off or two state type controls. The SK is best for morphing, smoothness, and automation type controls. Be aware that in addition to using XA on the All Elements screen, the XA switches can be control sources and be mapped to many of the possible control destinations. There are Parts where an XA switch control the Mono/Poly parameter for example. The value of the SK can be stored in a scene (if desirable), whereas the XA switch states are not affected by scene changes.

Hello Phil - I had not been on the page you specify, but another that supposedly allowed pitch shift. Anyway, I got to the page shown on P60 of the RM, and thence to the General and Pitch pages, and entered -12 for the pitch on Part 1. Again, nothing happened. Disappointing! The pitch remained unchanged - could it be that the Part is under the control of an over-riding master, and I can't change it? I'm using the 'Trumpet Ensemble' as a starting point.

Rod - I'm not sure how you have arrived at this situation. I have just called up the performance Trumpet Ensemble and successfully changed its note shift parameter by the method I described. I had a look at the control assign page and there are indeed a lot of assignments in place but as far as I know Note Shift can't be set as a destination (pitch yes but not note shift). I know that I have mentioned this before, but are you 100% certain that it is the Note Shift parameter that you are altering (and not Detune or Pitch Bend)? Try going to the original Trumpet Ensemble performance and try to note shift a part from the Edit - Part Settings - Pitch - Note Shift. If it still doesn't work then there's something wrong.

Hello Phil - Bingo! I had not appreciated one had to 'Part Select' - I wanted to drop down the whole sound rather than bits of it. However, in practical terms, that doesn't matter, and in any case I can then drop Part 2 if required. So it was my mind-set at fault. I must remember to specify the Part concerned and not expect the whole thing to respond. I am again in your debt - I bet you could scream sometimes!

Great - glad that the mystery is solved! By the way, if you were altering the Note Shift from the Common Audio Edit General page (reference manual p145) this affects the pitch of the audition phrase only. You will have noticed that when you altered this there was seemingly no effect but if you press Audition so that the audition phrase plays and then change the Note Shift the pitch will alter.

As a follow-up, I did do some simple editing of XA on the performance I've been working with. What "A. SW1/2" and "A. SW OFF" do is clear - and I can manually get that working by assigning the element to respond to the setting which gives me a slightly more "SSS-like" transition between the two voices.

Where it seems to breakdown is in trying to apply this to scenes. It appears that I can neither store the A. SW(1 and 2) settings nor can I make switching scenes send a CC to accomplish this. I'm not sure if there is any secondary way to turn A. SW1 / A. SW2 on or off such as using superknob which position can be saved.

Therefore, it does not seem use of XA -> "A. SW" can enhance scene selection - but is an independent method where 3 different "sounds" can be controlled with two switches that make a binary pattern. Setting up an example of Sound A, Sound B, Sound C:

Sound A: XA Control - A. SW1 On
Sound B: XA Control - A. SW2 On
Sound C: XA Control - A. SW Off

A. SW1 A. SW2 Resulting Sound
Off Off Sound C Only
Off On Sound B Only
On Off Sound A Only
On On Sound A and Sound B together

... and no relation to scenes, no utilizing scenes to "kick off" any of the above - it's a fully contained feature apart from scenes.

Now my part switching for the tune I'm working on is in the middle of the song - so I have the region of the keyboard also in the middle-to-top area as I start the intro with sounds near the bottom of the keyboard. I can setup the ranges differently - but scene buttons were better positioned as I used scenes 7 and 8 to switch between the two parts. Also - that was one button to keep track of (since only one button of a scene is enabled at a time). With A. SW1/2, I have to keep track of two buttons and mash down two at a time to switch between parts. This can be managed - but there were high hopes for enhancing scene switching with XA Control (without having to press any more buttons to enable the feature - just rely on what scenes save).

I'll likely stick with the abrupt volume switching of scenes unless I find another trick which gives a better result in at least (to me) as organic of a way.

Edit:

In the context of two sounds (forget about a 3rd sound) - Sound A and Sound C can be "toggled" as one or the other at a time - with the "SSS-like" non-abrupt cutoff when toggling is done - the element(s) with the sound that is being switched off will only stop playing on the next note-on event after switch-off. So this may be more elegant in some instances although I still would prefer for the controller buttons themselves to be closer to the middle of the keyboard which is the only remaining downside and something I'll have to adjust the note ranges around.

The only other "clean up" that has to happen is now I'll have a voice with A. SW1 (or 2 depending on which is used to toggle) as ON when it's normally off. I haven't had assignable switches before (MO6) so my sounds I'm working on replicating do not use them. I'll just delete the A. SW controls so the sound doesn't change from what I'm expecting. This is the bit other keyboardists have mentioned about paying attention to what A. SW does currently before "overloading" it with the new function of this part switching trick.

... and terminology: I use "Sound" in "Sound A", etc because I'm not aware there's a Yamaha marketing term for a collection of elements that can span parts as they can all be grouped to respond to an assignable switch on or off - and therefore I call this group of elements that are ON according to XA control (A. SW1/2 on or off) a "Sound".

My experience: when creating a scene I first have to save the second slot. Then afterwards i create scene 1. When first saving to scene 1, indeed, when changing the next scenes, the first one is affected too. This seems a software flaw to me. In performance mode you can de-activate evry scene by switching off all "ON" buttons. Then you can recreate your scenes.

Jan - each scene is a snapshot of the relevant parameters that can be assigned to a scene. In other words when you press shift + scene the state of the instrument at that point is stored. It shouldn't then matter what order you store the scenes in as long as all the parameters you need changed are in place before you register the scene.

so, in a scene you can not make a sound come in on the beat with an arp, did I understand this correctly? the new unmuted sound, or superknob setting, comes in exactly when you push the scene button and not on the beat with the next arp or drum pattern?