You can set the velocity sensitivity globally. That's one option but you would be changing it back and forth. Or you can modify the global velocity so the external keyboard is a little easier to play soft and the Montage is a little harder to play soft. In other words setting it in the middle somewhere. I wouldn't do this either. Or you can change the velocity sensitivity on a part by part basis. Here I would assign all my external Parts one velocity curve and keep internally controlled Parts at the default velocity.

Mark wrote:

Could you please advise on best practice when using 2 keyboards with very different velocity profiles. I have a Montage 7 and also a weighted key midi keyboard and will likely spend roughly equal time on each. I currently have to hit the midi keys quite hard to find the “sweet spot” in the sound though of course the Montage keys "fit the sound" perfectly without any velocity adjustment. Would it be best practice to build a second copy of favourite sounds and adjust the velocity settings on the copy? I expect this would work but seems like a fair bit of work and possibly wasteful of storage space. Or is there another solution, possibly a global setting which could be quickly set depending on which keyboard I’m currently sitting at?

Many thanks

Mark

Hi Mark,
I tried to research and find some documentation on the subject, but I was unable to find any. Yamaha R&D goes through get lengths to adjust the relationship between the sound engine response and the action selected for the product. Finding what you refer to as the “sweet spot” is no trivial thing, and well worth the effort, personally. Make your instrument, your instrument.

One of the things that is important in fashioning any Yamaha keyboard is this very “thing”... Example, even if you don’t prefer mini-keys, once you play a Yamaha reface you have to admit it feels incredible for such a little keyboard. It is something that is a very important part of the process in manufacturing keyboards (all shapes and sizes).

Here’s an example... The DX7, as a keyboard action, had a specific velocity curve that never quite got to 127... if you know about FM programming, it’s like they wanted to make it more difficult to overdrive the harmonic content. So much so when you played the DX7 from a MIDI controller that (too easily) reached 127, you got a over modulated, extremely bright, and sometimes thinner sound... there are classic recordings where you just know the player was on a weighted action 88 note keyboard... for the “feel”, but the sound now was bordering on being too thin with too much high frequency content (it’s a familiar sound). The TX816 suffered when certain controllers were used.

But this is all some what subjective whether the resulting sound was what they wanted... but many (wrongly) concluded it was the fault of the DX7 or FM synthesis. Velocity and the application of it to the tone generator is an extremely important thing.

With sample-based tech, it is not the same high frequency content issue, but nonetheless, you feel the difference and it is real. It is also personal and subjective. I talk with people all the time who had bought a MX49 or 61 several years ago who have used a weighted controller to trigger it. If they now play the MX88, they immediately notice that somebody obviously did something and found the “sweet spot” for 88 weighted keys... some how the MX88 from its own Keys is greater than a MX49+MIDI controller. But it is not something I can convince someone about, it’s all subjective and perception varies per player. But the MX88 is proof of what I’m referring to... engineers sweat over the “sweet spot” - and they want to give a general area to tweak, one direction or the other.

Go for it, tweak the sounds you want to play so they feel right. That’s the reason you purchased a synthesizer and forget about *wasting storage space*... there are literally 5,760 Performance locations in an empty MONTAGE. And that is precisely what those locations are for!

https://www.yamahasynth.com/resources/montage-understanding-velocity-sensitivity

Jason or Phil
I have finally bought a used Kontrol MK1 61 key. Controller.
And while the Montage Keybed is Really Great in most aspects. The extremaley tight spacing of the keys.
Has always been a hindrence to me(Big fingers).
So I doubt I will ever play the Montage Keybed Again. As far as Space wise goes. My fingers are now in Heaven.

Velocity is a little off(hitting a little harder on the Controler) And notes are a little more Higher end ish.
The Controller also Plays notes Louder. (I have seen this loudness. With 3 different controlers)

So what do I set globally?

Thanks
Tom

https://yamahasynth.com/forum/velocity-sensitivity-depth#reply-5404

Well That Controller Setup went. Out the window!
I am not even going to try to find the 'Sweet Spot' for 5 performances. Let alone Thousands of them.

Now. I do see the positives of having these adjustments At the part level. Available to the user.

However. They mostly affect. The player in question. IE: The way that player Plays or Feel sought. Hard, Soft or Medium.
Therefore. They could also be Global. Now. I can not remember all the keyboards I have had.
But as I recall. The settings. Were all Global on all keyboards and controllers. Hard, Medium and soft touch.
And some still had more micro adjustments for the Performance/Sound/Part.....
And I only Had to adjust Velocity 'Feel' for 1 Controller in my life. They all pretty well match up in general.
As they are all set to Medium/Average player.

So again. Outside of a specific performance. That a user wants a different feel in velocity. This is very strange. in the marketplace.
So Each performance. Has to have these adjusted. To the 'Sweet Spot'.
Which closes Yet another Door of Multiple keyboard setups. Unless the Montage is Always the Master Keyboard.

And even Trying to adjust just 1 performance. I could not even come close to the Volume Difference.
Generated by The controller Keys midi to M6. Verses the Montage Keys.

So this leaves me with a keyboard. I can not play Fast. As my fingers will inadvertently drag down Black keys.
I can play a Motif XF just fine. A roland just fine. Korg has the widest keyspacing. And The komplete Kontrol. Matched Korg's Key spacing.

Not sure you read the entire link I gave.

The primary adjustment you should make should be to the global VELOCITY in [UTILITY] mode. I highly recommend you explore the two "wide" curves.... Then, if further tweaks are needed tackle the per Performance Velocity Sensitivity Depth and Offset.

and ...

I am trying to understand the interplay between the Utility Area>General>Velocity Curve and the Performance>Part Edit Area>Play Mode>Velocity Depth & Velocity Offset parameters.

Which tells you the two methods - the global method as [UTILITY] "General" --> "Velocity Curve"

If you want more detailed tweaks - I'm surprised you have thousands of performances you use in your set/gig/studio. Not totally unheard of - but sometimes users conflate statistics with how many presets there are vs. what they end up using. That said, anything that just cannot work with global (which should be a short list) - you can dig in to the performance. However, I was answering (@Tom) the question, as asked, with the link provided - where to find the global velocity settings (not PART level).

Many thanks Bad Mister for your helpful reply. I've started building a set of 'velocity adjusted' versions of my favourite sounds (to match my MIDI keyboard) and found the benefits immediate and very pleasing, and with what seemed like quite a minimal amount of effort in the end. After figuring out the desirable Offset and Depth values, these numbers seem to work every time (with whatever sound I apply them to) to compensate for the idiosyncrasies of my MIDI keyboard. So, takes just a few moments to copy a performance, tweak Offset and Depth on all Parts, Save and it's good to go.

Thanks again, things are now beginning to work well for my set up,

Mark

Excellent! Agreed, It is not difficult at all, you just have to like what you're doing! And definitely worth the effort. Enjoy!