Let us know! 😀

Joking aside, can you provide us with answers to the first question? Many of us is concerned about the possibility of not being able to use their own waveforms. Montage has no fully-featured sequencer, but that's ok, there's DAW for that. What about creating our own multisamples?

Joking aside, future plans are not what I'm here to discuss, even if I knew I would be remiss in talking about any future plans that have not been officially announced. So yes, I did avoid that portion of your question.

But I can tell you this, the Melas Waveform Editor can make .X3A (ALL data) files, and can quickly and easily, trim, edit, crossfade loop, and manage your data. Not only can the data you create in the Editor be loaded by the XF, but it can also be read by the MOXF and the Montage.

That solution already exist! Please see Heratch's video on using a DAW (Cubase) and the Melas Waveform Editor to create and map samples to waveforms. If youve done sampling and mapping in the XS or XF you will find this method compelling.

https://yamahasynth.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=490:a-duduk-for-your-motif&Itemid=102

Bad Mister wrote:

Joking aside, future plans are not what I'm here to discuss, even if I knew I would be remiss in talking about any future plans that have not been officially announced. So yes, I did avoid that portion of your question.

But I can tell you this, the Melas Waveform Editor can make .X3A (ALL data) files, and can quickly and easily, trim, edit, crossfade loop, and manage your data. Not only can the data you create in the Editor be loaded by the XF, but it can also be read by the MOXF and the Montage.

That solution already exist! Please see Heratch's video on using a DAW (Cubase) and the Melas Waveform Editor to create and map samples to waveforms. If youve done sampling and mapping in the XS or XF you will find this method compelling.

https://yamahasynth.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=490:a-duduk-for-your-motif&Itemid=102

This is another great answer...

We should somehow try and get them into a kind of Guide..
Or a list with answers to Questions...

Bad Mister wrote:

Joking aside, future plans are not what I'm here to discuss

Thanks for your reply regarding XF Waveform editor. As to "future plans are not what I'm here to discuss": the problem is that we don't know what is considered as "a future plan - cannot be discussed" and what is at the moment considered "a given, more or less set in stone for May release - can be discussed" (technically, since Montage is still under development to us everything is "future").

Ad1: I am aware of the Melas waveform editor, but I believe Yamaha should not rely on 3rd party software here...

Ad2: So, do you promise to be around in 10 years time to take my complaints about possible malfunctions of the Wave ROM then? :-p (and I hope you won't advise me to just buy the all new Montage XF, which came out in 2025, because unfortunately, the warranty period for Montage was just 2 years and not 10 and nothing can be done about it...)

Falk wrote:

Hi,
. . .
- I read that Montage features a new tone generator (SWP-70) which does not use conventional ROM anymore. Instead, part of the flash memory (which presumably is 4GB physical for Montage?) is reserved for the ROM waveforms, the rest (1.75GB) for user. However, as far as I know, Flash ROM has a limited data retention time (something like 10 years). Since Yamaha gear is often used longer than 10 years, isnt this a problem? Will Montage "forget" its Wave ROM after 10 years?

Thank you!

Flash data retention is highly dependent on two factors: Program/erase cycles and temperature. Both of these dramatically affect retention period. As a case in point, let's look at data retention specified for the devices used on the Motif XF expansion boards:

Retention is best when the number of program/erase cycles is very low. In the case of factory preset waveform storage, this applies. At temperatures around 55C (130F), retention is expected to be on the order of 100 years. Raise the temperature to 70C (158F) and expected retention drops to about 20 years, which is the "typical" retention life quoted on the device data sheet.

For devices with around 10,000 program/erase cycles, 20-year retention would require temperature to be kept below 50C (90F).

Keep in mind that there is a wide distribution across the cells in a flash device, regarding their retention times. Only a few cells are expected to be affected when the device reaches its retention limit, with most cell data surviving far longer. That is, you do not suddenly experience massive data loss.

Software Refresh
Device retention actually becomes a moot point, if a means is provided to re-program the flash periodically, such as every few years. This can be implemented as a built-in automatic function, transparent to the user, which would not require the user to re-supply all of the original waveform data. The most important question to pose to Yamaha, then, is whether or not such a software refresh scheme has been incorporated.

Marianne Oelund
Principal H/W Engr.
BAE Systems Flight Controls

Very informative, thanks, Marianne!

Hi Marianne, thanks for the info- I am not an expert in the field, but I was also thinking about the periodic reprogramming of the Flash as a potential remedy...!

Would be interesting to hear something from Yamaha on this. Although I do tend to believe that Montage is constructed in a sustainable way- Yamaha has shown a good track record for this in the past, as far as I am know- I think it's a valid concern... After all its an instrument in the 3000+ range, and not some disposable cell phone!

P.s. I have a DX7 here, 30 years old- still up and running! Solid tech from the 80ties ☺

Hello Marianne

Can you tell me Please:
What one NAND Flash Technologie is in the Montage used?
And Please give me disclosures to Concrete:
With how much read /write Cycle the Montage NAND Flash withstand.

Thanks for that .

Best regards from Germany
Mirek

miro wrote:
What one NAND Flash Technologie is in the Montage used?

Best regards from Germany
Mirek

Have you found a source indicating that NAND flash has been adopted for Montage? The Motif XF expansion flash is NOR technology, with a quoted endurance of 100,000 P/E cycles. As there hasn't been a significant increase in available Flash storage space for Montage, my suspicion is that it still uses NOR flash.

The advantage of NOR flash for a ROMpler is that it allows fast random access down to the individual word level, whereas NAND flash does not.

- Marianne

Hi Marianne,

as the previous arranger models PSR-S770/S970 have the new SWP70 tone generator (see http://sandsoftwaresound.net/s770-s970-internal-arch/), and as the according memory interface uses NAND flash (Spansion S34ML08G101TFI000; http://sandsoftwaresound.net/swp70-tone-generator/), it would be reasonable to assume that the new Montage also makes use of the new technology ( http://sandsoftwaresound.net/montage-wave-memory/).

See also: http://www.google.com/patents/US20140123835

On the other hand, I'm also wondering why Yamaha did not decide to include much more memory into the Montage, given the fact that NAND flash is exponentially more cost efficiant than the previously used NOR flash...a real drawback for me and the main reason not to buy the Montage as a replacement for my trusty Motif XF6 - in case the announced 1.75GB of mini user memory (at least in 2016) really make it into the final product. 😉

Regards, 🙂

Jo

I don't know about these things, other than what I see written in forums. But if this is true,

Marianne wrote:
The advantage of NOR flash for a ROMpler is that it allows fast random access down to the individual word level, whereas NAND flash does not.

then that would explain why I like my Yamaha synthesizer. And fastest response is always my preference over greater capacity.

Marianne wrote:

miro wrote:
What one NAND Flash Technologie is in the Montage used?

Best regards from Germany
Mirek

Have you found a source indicating that NAND flash has been adopted for Montage? The Motif XF expansion flash is NOR technology, with a quoted endurance of 100,000 P/E cycles. As there hasn't been a significant increase in available Flash storage space for Montage, my suspicion is that it still uses NOR flash.

The advantage of NOR flash for a ROMpler is that it allows fast random access down to the individual word level, whereas NAND flash does not.

- Marianne

Hello

Thanks for you feedback…
I have hear about this in German Yamaha Forum…
i was frightened, about this .
What ist the true now?

Mirek