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Cubase Elements 9 FW problem

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Hi,

I have a problem with the latest Version of Cubase Elements 9. I am using the Firewire Expension of my MOTIF XF8.

So far I have installed the required drivers on my MacBook Pro. When I choose the preset called "Yamaha MOTIF XF8 multi channel recording"
I can hear the Motifs signal through the monitor speakers while recording on "MIDI 01" in Cubase. But the signal sounds like doubled.
It is almost the same sound you get when you plug in the two audio cables from a keyboards stereo output to a single speaker.
I think it is called phase cancellation... What am I doing wrong?

Thank you!

 
Posted : 01/03/2017 8:37 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

It's not that you're doing something wrong, you have setup a routing scenario with two pathways to deliver audio to your speakers. You simply have to choose which one you want to listen to (referred to as "Monitor"). This is because the Motif XF is both a source and your audio interface.

One path delivers the sound of the Motif XF directly to the Main L&R Outputs (Direct Monitor). The other path routes Audio to the computer via FW (Cubase), then sends it to the Motif XF (FW) and to the speakers... this time the XF is acting as audio interface. These two signal paths are separated by the time it takes your computer to process the incoming signal and return it to the output (latency). The direct arrives immediately, the signal routed thru the computer arrives a few milliseconds later.

You can opt to Monitor either the Direct signal path, or you can choose to Monitor just the audio thru the computer... but pick one, not both.

This is pretty much the same in any recording situation going back to the days of tape. You either monitored the direct in signal or you could listen post the recorder. Most times back in the day, you monitored the direct... the tape recorder's record head was several inches before the playback head (that latency existed and is why you typically monitored direct).

You can Mute the audio return and monitor the direct signal.

In general the Templates are okay if they serve what you want to do. Ultimately, you want to learn to setup your own work template based on how many tracks of each type you need.

 
Posted : 01/03/2017 8:56 am
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Thank you for your quick reply!
Could you please teach me how I can mute the audio return and monitor the direct signal?
Do I have to do this in Cubase or in the Motif?

Thank you!

 
Posted : 01/03/2017 6:40 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

You are using the Preset template: "Yamaha MOTIF XF8 multi channel recording"

Motif XF7 Multi Channel Recording
Description: "Audio outputs from respective channels of the Motif XF will be input to the respective audio tracks of Cubase simultaneously."

It creates 8 MIDI tracks set to OUT MIDI data on channels 1-8 respectively and 8 Audio tracks set to receive audio via eight sets of stereo pairs: L/R, 1/2, 3/4, 5/6, 7/8, 9/10, 11/12, and the A/D to 13/14. The Cubase DEVICES > VST CONNECTIONS > INPUT tab will show that a stereo input has been set to receive audio from the Motif XF's Device Ports 13 and 14 (FW13/FW14). Requires FW16E (FireWIre Expansion option) in order to route internal PARTS and A/D Input to computer.

You have to decide that fits what you want to do. Please do not use a Template unless it reflects exactly what you want to accomplish. Sure, it's quick and easy, but if it's not what you need...

Let's start by recording MIDI TRACK 01.
To eliminate the doubling you are hearing at this stage, please set the Motif XF to Local Control = OFF
Local Control refers to the Motif XF triggering the internal (Local) tone engine. Doubling is occurring because with Local On you are triggering the tone engine twice... once directly as normal, and again with the MIDI data routed Out to Cubase and echoed back by the MIDI TRACK. Here's how to turn Local Control Off:

Press [UTILITY]
Press [F5] CONTROL
Press [SF2] MIDI
Set Local Control = Off
This will disconnect the Motif XF keyboard from the Motif XF tone generator. Key presses and controller movement will be routed Out via FW-MIDI to your MIDI TRACK which will thru the signal back to the Motif XF. Completing the signal path... Thus eliminating the doubling.

Once you have recorded a MIDI TRACK you can edit it as you desire... when ready to print it to an Audio Track you can.
Go to DEVICES > VST CONNECTIONS > select the "INPUTS" tab.
Here you will see the audio returns from the Motif XF as Inputs to Cubase.

 
Posted : 01/03/2017 8:22 pm
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Thank you very much!

It works...

Now I have a lot of Cubase homework to do...

 
Posted : 02/03/2017 8:01 am
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Bad Mister, I hope you don´t mind to help me out again...

Right now I´m able to send Midi Data via firewire to the PC in order to create a Midi Track in Cubase without trouble. I have set the local control "off" on the Motif.
After recording the Midi Data, I can hear the Motifs sound while the track is played back - this must be the midi data that is sent back and tells the motif to play I think...?!
What I am still not able to is to record an audio track via firewire in Cubase. Do I have to tell a particular audio track in Cubase where to find the motifs audio signal?
I don´t receive any audio signal from the motif.

Thank you for your patience!!!

 
Posted : 02/03/2017 11:53 am
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I´m sorry for being so silly...!

I just found out that it´s not possible to send audio data from the motif to the pc and back when the local control is set to "off" on the motif.

 
Posted : 02/03/2017 12:15 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

No worries. Working out what will and will not work is always a matter is "Signal Flow". Those who have taken any classes with me know that this is a theme I promote at all times. Know the signal flow. If you know how the messages are traveling you can better troubleshoot any issue.

The "Local Control" Switch in the synth allows you to insert the Computer between the synthesizer's Keyboard and its Tone Generator... in a very literal sense. The MIDI messages actual arrive at the MIDI Track before they trigger the audio from the synthesizer's Tone Generator.

 
Posted : 02/03/2017 1:46 pm
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Hello again...

I´m still having problems with the firewire connection.
Sometimes it happens that cubase and the MotifXF seem to loose thier "audio connection".
The Motif is sending Midi Data but no Audio Data to cubase. I know that there must be an audio connection between the Motif and the computer because I can hear audio from the computer ( youtube...) through the headphones plugged into the motifs headphone jack...
Why does cubase not realise that there is an audio interface? How can I tell Cubase to find the Motifs Firewire connection?

Thank you!

 
Posted : 03/03/2017 6:20 pm
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I forgot to mention that after rebooting the Mac and the Motif several times again suddenly a dialogue box is showing up.
It tells that Cubase has found new audio drivers. I can choose between "integrated audio device" and "Yamaha Steinberg FW".
After having chosen the Steinberg FW driver everything is working fine.
But as soon as I turn down the Motif or exit cubase and restart again audio is not working anymore.
I have attached a screenshot of the dialoque box. As you can see it´s in German... Don´t know If that helps;)

 
Posted : 03/03/2017 7:38 pm
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Topic starter
 

I forgot to mention that after rebooting the Mac and the Motif several times again suddenly a dialogue box is showing up.
It tells that Cubase has found new audio drivers. I can choose between "integrated audio device" and "Yamaha Steinberg FW".
After having chosen the Steinberg FW driver everything is working fine.
But as soon as I turn down the Motif or exit cubase and restart again audio is not working anymore.
I have attached a screenshot of the dialoque box. As you can see it´s in German... Don´t know If that helps;)

 
Posted : 03/03/2017 7:39 pm
Posts: 0
Trusted Member
Topic starter
 

I forgot to mention that after rebooting the Mac and the Motif several times again suddenly a dialogue box is showing up.
It tells that Cubase has found new audio drivers. I can choose between "integrated audio device" and "Yamaha Steinberg FW".
After having chosen the Steinberg FW driver everything is working fine.
But as soon as I turn down the Motif or exit cubase and restart again audio is not working anymore.
I have attached a screenshot of the dialoque box. As you can see it´s in German... Don´t know If that helps;)

 
Posted : 03/03/2017 7:39 pm
Posts: 0
Trusted Member
Topic starter
 

I forgot to mention that after rebooting the Mac and the Motif several times again suddenly a dialogue box is showing up.
It tells that Cubase has found new audio drivers. I can choose between "integrated audio device" and "Yamaha Steinberg FW".
After having chosen the Steinberg FW driver everything is working fine.
But as soon as I turn down the Motif or exit cubase and restart again audio is not working anymore.

 
Posted : 03/03/2017 7:41 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

You've mentioned it! 🙂 a few times... I can guess you're trying to attach a screenshot... again no worries.

You need to grasp a few very important concepts and you will be good to go.

Local Control when switched Off breaks the connection between the synthesizer's Keyboard and its Tone Generator.
And unless you place an active MIDI Track between the MIDI OUT and the MIDI going back to the synthesizer there can be no audio.

Please try this to learn about how this works:
Start a new EMPTY Cubase Project.
Create just one MIDI Track

In your Motif XF call up a blank Song
In the MIXING put a drum kit in Part 1, a bass in Part 2, a keyboard in Part 3

With Local Control Off. Set that Cubase MIDI Track to channel 1
You will hear the drums
Change the channel number of the Track to 2
You will now hear the bass
Change the channel number to channel 3
You will now hear the keyboard

The MIDI TRACK's channel determines which XF Part will sound. Local Control Off means the Cubase MIDI Track is in between the Keyboard and the Tone Generator. The MIDI Track actually determines where the messages go... because you have routed the MIDI OUT to "Yamaha Motif XF-1" and because you have set a channel number - that is why you can hear the sound you do.

Now create an AUDIO TRACK
when you select it, you will hear nothing.
If you are surprised read the above paragraphs again.

Hint: with Local Control Off and no MIDI Track in between, the XF Keyboard cannot trigger the XF Tone Generator.
For recording straight to an audio track you must turn Local Control On. This is the normal setting for play.

 
Posted : 03/03/2017 7:58 pm
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Ups... sorry for this! Yes, I have tried to attach a screenshot. It just told me that no pdf or tiff data are accepted but obviously posted my words...
But thank you again for your kind advice!
I went through all the steps but when I finally turned on the LOCAL CONTROL again to record some notes to the audio track it is still the same.
No audio data was recorded to the track. Above you can (hopefully) see two screenshots...

Attached files

 
Posted : 05/03/2017 8:24 am
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