I'm not sure I follow exactly what it is you wish to accomplish but perhaps this will help:

When you place the Motif XF in "FW MODE", you must connect it to a computer and allow the DAW to handle the routing of the data. Naturally, you will be using the Yamaha Steinberg FW driver... This driver communicates with the Motif XF on three separate Ports. Each Port represents 16 channels of MIDI information.
Port 1 = the Motif XF
Port 2 = Remote Control messages
Port 3 = one external device connected to the 5-pin MIDI jacks of the XF

The Motif XF will, as you have observed, no longer respond to MIDI messages coming from MPC. By switching the MIDI IN/OUT = FW, the Motif XF is now looking for MIDI messages coming from the computer (via FW).

The 5-Pin MIDI jacks connected to the back panel of Motif XF, now send their MIDI messages to the computer via Motif XF's FW connection. Instead of triggering the Motif XF the messages simply "pass through" the XF without triggering it.

In this configuration, both the Motif XF and the MPC are able to send MIDI messages *to* the computer, and they both able to receive MIDI messages *from* the computer. Here's how:

You determine where the message go by settings you make in the DAW software.

For example, say you want to send MIDI data from the MPC to the Motif XF tone generator on MIDI Channel 1:
You would create a MIDI Track in the DAW - set the MIDI IN to receive data on "Yamaha Motif XF8-3" (Port 3)
You would set MIDI OUT of that track to "Yamaha Motif XF8-1" (Port 1)
You would set the MIDI Channel to CH1

In the configuration where the MIDI IN/OUT = FW, the XF is acting as a MIDI interface. It simply routes external signal *through* to the computer. The XF uses MIDI Port 1 for itself. So if you wanted to play the XF and trigger the MPC, you would set a MIDI TRACK to receive on Port 1 and output on Port 3

Port 1 = the Motif XF itself
Port 3 = the MPC 4000

Set the MIDI Channel number to direct the signal to a specific Part as you require.

Hope this makes sense, if the Midi interface was a separate box this would "look" right. But because the interface is built into the XF it's a head scratcher... What you have to know is: when the XF's set to communicate via FW, the MIDI jacks are disabled from direct communication with the XF... Instead signal "passes through" the XF and travels to the computer on Port 3. Signals coming back from the computer assigned on Port 3 "pass through" the XF and go direct to the 5-pin MIDI jack on the back panel.

If you want to playback sequence data from the MPC to the XF, realize it arrives in the DAW as Port 3, route it out from the track on Port 1... Now the XF will respond as usual, and you can record the audio to an audio track in the DAW.

Hope that helps.

My MPC 4000 is running audio (8 Channel ADAT) through an Audient ID22 interface .....into the DAW (Logic Pro 9).

My MPC 4000 is also connected to my Motif XF8 by (MIDI Out / IN).

My goal is to have the sequencer of the Akai MPC 4000 play back the "audio" of the Motif XF into the DAW(Logic Pro 9) through the Firewire connection.

Also, do I need to assign each sound voice to ( FW1, FW2 .....FW14) as well as FW L&R in the Motif XF?

I was able to load a version of Motif XF Editor ,....but firmware is a problem? do I just need to keep trying older versions of firmware?

The Technology is KILLING my creativity time..........

I would gladly pay someone to take an hour to set up my "midi/firewire" arrangement up permanently for 100.00 so that I can get back to making music.

Thank you for the follow up.

T.

Please don't pay anyone anything. There is no such thing as "permanently" setting up. I'm afraid you are going to have to learn how routing works, and the difference between MIDI and Audio. Fundamentally, there are three basic configurations in any system: RECORDING, OVERDUBBING, and MIXDOWN... and depending on the gear you have selected to use, the amount of changes you have to make can vary, significantly.

My goal is to have the sequencer of the Akai MPC 4000 play back the "audio" of the Motif XF into the DAW(Logic Pro 9) through the Firewire connection.

I'm sorry I don't know the MPC4000 as an audio recorder, from what you have written it is outputting audio via FireWire... Really? Or is that just a badly written sentence? I'm not sure... Maybe you put audio in quotes because you mean "trigger the audio of the Motif XF", not playback the audio...

I think you mean, your goal is playback the MIDI data that's recorded on the MPC to the Motif XF and have the XF send its audio to your DAW via FireWire. This is possible. Moving on...

Also, do I need to assign each sound voice to ( FW1, FW2 .....FW14) as well as FW L&R in the Motif XF?

That is always going to be up to YOU. It's what's called a "production" decision and is why there is no such thing as a "permanent" setup. Some musical Parts will benefit from being recorded on their own separate Audio track - so in that case you can isolate it on it own FW bus to your DAW. However if you are not going to process it separately or do something extraordinary in the DAW you can simply send it as a part of the main L/R bus out.

I was able to load a version of Motif XF Editor ,....but firmware is a problem? do I just need to keep trying older versions of firmware?

You're going in the wrong direction, if you have a firmware conflict you need NEWER version, not older... (Or are you just kidding us, I cannot tell). In general, the lastest, most recent firmware version is what you want to have. Version numbers are important, make sure you get the most recent version of the editor that is compatible with your computer type. Your Motif XF firmware should be 1.50

In general, you are going to make the computer DAW the master clock source. It will send standard MIDI clock information to the MPC. It will do so on "Yamaha Motif XF8-3" (port 3). Set the tempo in the DAW, and have the MPC slave to that tempo. Please consult your Logic Pro documentation on sending MIDI clock to a specific Port. In all likelihood you will need to make this setting, because it probably defaults to not sending clock out via Midi...

The MPC will output MIDI data via its 5-pin MIDI cables to the Motif XF which (acting as a Midi interface) will send those messages through to the computer via FireWire on Midi Port 3. You will need to have an active MIDI Track in your DAW set to receive this data and echo it OUT to the Motif XF on "Yamaha Motif XF8-1" (port 1).

The Motif XF will receive the Midi signal and output audio... You set each XF Part to the FW audio port as you desire/require (production decision). That's the signal flow you will use for this configuration of data.

You did not mention, as best I can read from your posts, if you need to record Audio from the MPC... IF YOU DO: Connect the audio outputs of the MPC to the AD Inputs on the back of the Motif XF, they too, can be routed on to the computer by the XF's FireWire connection. The A/D Part can be assigned its own discreet pair of FW buses and can be recorded as audio into your DAW.
[MIXING]
[EDIT]
[COMMON EDIT]
[F4] AUDIO IN
Here you can set the routing OUTPUT SELECT for the AD Input Part.

Hope that helps.

Start by getting the correct version of the "Motif XF Editor VST/Standalone" (since you are using Logic you'll need to run the Editor Standalone, Logic cannot do VST3, sorry. You do not, repeat do not need the Editor to make this work... I suggest you get things working without the Editor. Get comfortable with the routing, then once you understand all this, the editor should be the last thing you add.

But make sure your XF is at version 1.50.x (very important!!!)

OK lets try again!

Question:
What is the STEP by STEP Process for Setting up the following?

1) How to Make MOTIF XF: "SLAVE" to LOGIC PRO 9 MASTER CLOCK?
2) How to Make Motif XF "SYNC" with AKAI MPC 4000 (which ALSO is a SLAVE to LOGIC PRO 9 MASTER CLOCK)?
3) How to Make MOTIF XF FireWire "SEND" 16 Separate "Audio" Tracks using LOGIC PRO DAW as MASTER Clock?

Please provide simple "Step by Step" set up process.

Thank you

What is the STEP by STEP Process for Setting up the following?

1) How to Make MOTIF XF: "SLAVE" to LOGIC PRO 9 MASTER CLOCK?
2) How to Make Motif XF "SYNC" with AKAI MPC 4000 (which ALSO is a SLAVE to LOGIC PRO 9 MASTER CLOCK)?
3) How to Make MOTIF XF FireWire "SEND" 16 Separate "Audio" Tracks using LOGIC PRO DAW as MASTER Clock?

Sorry we don't use LOGIC PRO, so step 1 is to read you Logic Pro documentation and find out how to route standard MIDI Clock OUT to your Motif XS via "Yamaha Motif XF8-1" (port 1). Typically, DAWs do not automatically send clock OUT, you must activate it, and route it on the port going to the specific device... In this case to the Motif XS port 1

You set the Motif XS to slave as follows:
Press [UTILITY]
Press [F5] CONTROL
Press [SF2] MIDI
Set MIDI SYNC = auto
Set SEQUENCER CONTROL = in

The rest of your question is not clear. You can only have one clock source in a system. Because you only need one. The Master clock will need to be the computer, the XS and the MPC will act as Slaves to the clock coming from LogicPro. You'll need to read you MPC manual on how to set it to external clock.

The audio routing from the XS is not called "tracks", you route the audio of the XS "Parts" to the audio Outputs. "Tracks" in the Motif XS contain MIDI data only, and MIDI data cannot be heard, it is not audio. It is the "Part" that generates the audio. Audio routing is done by assigning a Part parameter. There are 16 audio outputs, which are referred to as audio "buses".

From a SONG or PATTERN
Press [MIXING]
Press [EDIT]
Press a numbered button [1]-[16] to select and view PART parameters
Press [F1] VOICE
Press [SF2] OUTPUT
You can set the OUTPUT SELECT parameter for each PART as you require. Initially, they all default to the main "L/R" outputs, you can route them to any of the individual outputs as you require.

Press [F6] LIST to view a listing of the possible output buses to which the signal can be routed.
The “L&R” options refers to both the analog main outputs and the mLAN/FW digital stereo bus.
The “asL&R” option refers to the analog (only) Assignable Outputs on the back panel of the XS
These are followed by seven odd/even pairs of mLAN/Firewire buses: m1&2, m3&4, m5&6, m7&8, m9&10, m11&12, and m13&14
Then you have the individual “asL” (analog only) assignable Left and the “asR” (analog only) assignable Right
Then each of the fourteen assignable mLAN/FW buses as Mono sends: m1, m2, m3, m4, m5, m6, m7, m8, m9, m10, m11, m12, m13, and m14

Question Below...

For clarification:

Yamaha Motif XF8-1" (port 1) is referring to the "MIDI IN" Port (on back MOTIF XF Panel)
Yamaha Motif XF8-2" (port 2) is referring to the "MIDI OUT" Port (on back MOTIF XF Panel)
Yamaha Motif XF8-3" (port 3) is referring to the :MIDI THRU" Port (on back MOTIF XF Panel)

Correct?

Also I have a MOTIF "XF" as stated in the above questions...do your instructions above given in response to my question where you express directions in regards to the Motif "XS" basically apply to Motif "XF" also... in "all" aspects?

I realize there are a lot of products to keep up with ...at Yamaha, and....I do appreciate your feedback and help!

Thanks
Thomas

For clarification:

Yamaha Motif XF8-1" (port 1) is referring to the "MIDI IN" Port (on back MOTIF XF Panel)
Yamaha Motif XF8-2" (port 2) is referring to the "MIDI OUT" Port (on back MOTIF XF Panel)
Yamaha Motif XF8-3" (port 3) is referring to the :MIDI THRU" Port (on back MOTIF XF Panel)

Correct?

No. Incorrect.

A Port is a bi-directional communication that includes an IN and an OUT - and is used to refer to communication protocols like USB and FireWire which allow for multiple port communication to and from the computer. So when the word "port" is used it is always both an IN and an OUT.
Laymans terms: a USB port is the equivalent of two standard 5-pin MIDI cables. Each port is cable of communication 16 discreet Channels of MIDI.

PORT 1 is the IN and OUT for the Motif XF tone generator. On this port MIDI Note-ons, controller messages, and tempo travel from the XF to the computer and return from the computer. 16 Channels of data.

PORT 2 is the IN and OUT for the XF's front panel DAW REMOTE communication. When you press the [DAW REMOTE] button, the front panel knobs, buttons and sliders are retasked and act as a control surface for your DAW (Cubase, Logic Pro, Sonar, Digital Performer, or Pro a Tools). Again it is two way IN and OUT

PORT 3 is the IN and OUT that address the 5-pin MIDI jacks on the XF back panel when you select MIDI IN/OUT = either USB or FW. During such a selection, the 5-pin jacks no longer address the XF, so rather than just leave them do nothing... Yamaha allows MIDI signal from one external device to enter (bypassing) the internal XF and arrive in the computer as Port 3. Conversely, any track routed OUT on PORT 3 bypasses the XF and arrives at the 5-pin MIDI OUT jack. The 5-pin MIDI THRU jack simply echoes whatever is coming In from that external device.

This works the same in the Motif XS, Motif XF, MOX, MOXF, S90 XS, S70 XS... of course the Motif XS/XFs are the only ones capable of FW.

"If you want to playback sequence data from the MPC to the XF, realize it arrives in the DAW as Port 3, route it out from the track on Port 1... Now the XF will respond as usual, and you can record the audio to an audio track in the DAW."

Maybe i missed it above ...for clarification in Laymans terms?? Please tell me how to connect XF to Computer to "playback sequence data from the MPC to the XF" using FW.

Thank you

We can do that... But you need to tell us what is the role of the DAW in your setup. You can playback data directly to the Motif XS without the computer. But if you wish to include the computer you connect using the XS as your interface. The data will enter and pass through the XS, then it's the DAW that echoes it back OUT to the target tone engine.

MIDI travels OUT from a track on your MPC > it's connected to the 5-pin MIDI IN jack on the XS > because the XS is using MIDI IN/OUT = FW, a multiple port interface to address the computer, your incoming MPC MIDI data is send through to the computer via FW on the port identified as "Yamaha Motif XS-3" Port 3.

If you set a MIDI Track to receive on Port 3 it will receive the MIDI data of the MPC.... if you route it from that MIDI Track OUT on Port 1 it will trigger the Motif XS; if you set the OUT on Port 1, Channel 12 - whatever sound you set in Part 12 of the XS will sound.

So you determine which device responds by bouncing the data back OUT using the Track's settings
Your Port 1 will be the XS, in MIXING setups you have 16 channels.

Finally got it to work....But.... one strange thing occurs every now and then....

A voice number and/or voice volume level will sometimes surprisingly change (on its own) back to a previous song setting.

Your thoughts?

Thomas

The built-in system remembers what is the Stored condition. Depending on how you have your Preferences set, stopping playback or advancing to a specific measure can cause Voices and/or Volume levels to change. These settings deal with what are referred to as "chase" - where the last sent program change and controller condition is restored.

Or you have a different MIXING setup stored internally on the XF, than the one that your DAW sends via Program Change or controller messages. But one thing is certain, nothing changes on its own.