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How could Motif XF be used for live performing with "recorded" Cubase songs as backup?

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With such a long sync time every time I open a project in cubase ai (usb connection, no firewire port in my laptop), how could my xf be used for live performing with recorded midi as a backup? Do all songs have to be mixed down to an audio file? I'm new to xf and midi "recording". Thanks!

 
Posted : 16/11/2015 9:06 pm
Bad Mister
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If you're talking a long time to sync your Motif XF and Cubase, we have to ask why? What's the hold up. We can understand the very first time, you need to configure your setup, but after that your setup should be memorized and return each time. You don't mention an audio interface so perhaps that's the issue.

If you have no audio interface, you cannot use Export Audio Mixdown to create a wav. You will be forced to playback MIDI from Cubase to your XF.

Did you know you can open multiple Song Projects in Cubase? Simply activate the one you want to play. For tips and tricks on working Cubase fully see the DOCUMENTATION that comes with it and take advantage of the support at Steinberg.net

 
Posted : 17/11/2015 11:44 am
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why do I need an audio interface when the motif xf has usb for midi? which is heavily advertised by Yamaha and retailers as a 'good thing'!

everytime I open a new project or change settings on the motif from voice to song mode or whatever, a ridiculously long sync is initiated. thus, my original question (which remains unanswered, but ..thanks?)

I've read the documentation and if I could find the answer there, I would not be asking questions here!

that's right, you said maybe not having an audio interface is my problem. So you don't know or have anything helpful or informative to say, but again...thanks? :-/

 
Posted : 19/11/2015 12:34 am
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and by the way, according to Cubase documentation, once you save a project, all your settings are saved. Obviously not :p

 
Posted : 19/11/2015 12:36 am
Bad Mister
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why do I need an audio interface when the motif xf has usb for midi? which is heavily advertised by Yamaha and retailers as a 'good thing'!

And it is a very good thing for MIDI communication. It does not allow you to move audio between the XF and your computer. That's why you would need an audio interface. This is not always necessary, it depends on your specific goals.

I'll explain, MIDI data is not sound. It is a series of coded messages that represent the music, in the same way a roll of punched paper 'represents' a musical performance for an old style Player Piano. In order to playback your composition you need to put that piano roll in another compatible Player Piano. I'm sure you know this, but for those new to all this, it's worth explaining what's what (bare with me).

Your MIDI data 'represents' your musical performance, you'd need to play it back on another Motif XF - in order to play it back at your friends house you would need to take your Motif XF or a file that they could playback on their personal Motif XF. An audio interface would allow you to transfer audio (a sound file) to your computer in real time. Audio file formats like .wav can be played back by a wide variety of playback devices, like handheld players, smart phones, computers, etc., etc. many consumer devices can playback .wav files.

That said, (and forgive the basic 101 nature of that if you already know it) if your use case is just playback on the stage, it is your choice to go MIDI or audio. There are advantages and disadvantages to each. MIDI is "unfinished" - meaning you have the ability to still make changes, on-the-fly, while the data is still MIDI. AUDIO, on the other hand, is a bit more of a commitment and is considered 'final' as it is now more difficult to make any further tweaks or changes. (Although there are options here, too.)

Although we don't really heavily advertise MIDI (but we should!!!), it is only half the story. Audio is the finished product, or is considered the "finished" product because it can be easily played back by the average person (consumer). It is a format that can be distributed to family and friends. Your MIDI data alone, can be played only by Motif XF owners. And that maybe fine for you and your specific use case. That's why we asked.

everytime I open a new project or change settings on the motif from voice to song mode or whatever, a ridiculously long sync is initiated. thus, my original question (which remains unanswered, but ..thanks?)

This is probably a newbie mistake on your part. And is part of the reason you came here to ask questions, I would guess. However, it is the settings you have selected that is causing your "ridiculously long sync". If you analyze your AUTO SYNC SETTINGS (on the VST EDITOR's menu bar go to FILE > SETUP) you will find the cause:
You only need to SYNC the "Current" settings; in all likelihood, you have opted in for all three options.

You have three options to automatically sync when you want to send data between the computer and the XF.
1) Global - these are your UTILITY mode settings. Which take two seconds to sync. Most likely you can leave this set because it will make your overall settings. But once you are setup at the gig, you don't need to send these again, and again, with every Project. Once you've configured for stage, there is no need to restore the settings that are already setup. Ticking this is redundant. (Today's word: redundant - as in unnecessary)

2) Current - use this to restore the MIXING setup used for the current composition.

3) VOICE - you probably mindlessly ticked this box and you probably don't need to... This will synchronize all 512 User Voices and 32 User Drum kits, by restoring the the User Voices that are probably already in your XF, anyway. And it will dutifully do so every single time you reSync. You are unnecessarily waiting for the program to restore the Voices that are already loaded into your XF! In all practical reality you don't often need to load a new 512 Voices and 32 Drum Kits for the song you are getting ready to play. So the smart user unchecks the VOICE option. This will greatly speed up your recall of the data by a huge factor. Ticking VOICE is redundant.

The Cubase Solution
When you are ready to take the next step with Cubase, you can use the MEDIA BAY's Sound Browser to keep your Mixing setups so that when you open the Project it will automatically recall everything ... All your Voices, even if they are not currently loaded into the XF's internal library. Sound Browser can keep either single Voices or entire sets of 16 (MIXING) as a part of each project's restorable content.

But for heaven's sake, stop waiting for the 512 Voices and 32 Drum kits to be written back to memory when you really don't have to... You are overwriting your internal XF library with data that in all likelihood is already in your XF (redundant). A person would only mark that "VOICE" option in a situation where you know for a fact the Voice data required for this composition is not already loaded into your instrument. (And you didn't know about Sound Browser... Which again gives you access to every Voice you have collected for your Motif XF!!! Voice Librarues, Sample Libraries, custom Voices, Mixing Voices, entire Mixing setup's, etc., etc., etc. Learning curve - about twenty minutes, return on investment: priceless

The way it's done:
This is why a person requiring the fastest method of restoring a Project from file for playback, uses the ability of Cubase to capture the entire Mix, all the Voices you've used, even Mix Voices, and stores it with the Project File... So even if the composition uses Voices from a library not currently loaded in your XF, the Sound Browser will bulk them to the XF in about 2-3 seconds, even when the Voices use Flash Board data!!! When properly organized you can move between Project Files (Songs, Medleys, etc) quickly and efficiently.

and by the way, according to Cubase documentation, once you save a project, all your settings are saved. Obviously not :p

But obviously it can, but you have to be willing to make the correct settings - we can help you there. if your goal is just to create MIDI data then leaving the project as MIDI is fine, but if you want to play it for family and friends when you are away from your XF you might want to consider an audio interface or at least take advantage of the XF's ability to create a stereo .wav directly to a USB drive connected to the TO DEVICE USB port.

We have a tutorial here on Yamaha Synth that will introduce you to the CUBASE feature VST PRESETs. Obviously from the name this feature will allow you to create a recall-able program that will restore your entire XF Mixing setup when you open a project, and will send that as "current" to your connected Motif XF. (This particularly useful when certain compositions require Voices from various Libraries).

We could reprint it all here but will provide a link below, instead :p
It will help. An example shows how you can create a Default Mix, but each Project could have its own Mix that can be named and stored in the Sound Browser for quick access. Restore your selected sounds in seconds, literally. By naming the MIX literally "Default" the example in the video becomes the one that opens for NEW XF VST projects. Instead: If you give the VST PRESET the name of the Song it will be stored, yes, automatically, and recalled each time you open the Project. Just set the Sync settings so only the "current" Song/Pattern Mixing setup is bulked... And again it is much quicker and fluid than what you've been doing it.

Adding Voice Libraries to Cubase as VST PRESETs

Storing a Mix as VST PRESET

As to you needing an audio interface, that question remains one you must answer. You can record audio files directly from the XF to a connected USB drive... This is explained in the link below. It may or may not be what you need...

How to Make a Wav or AIFF for CD/MP3 Creation

Recording audio to a DAW, like Cubase, opens up new opportunities and expands what you are able to do, obviously. Only you know when you're ready for that... It's a given, much can be accomplished on the XF without the need for any external audio. Audio can be recorded and used internally - you have about 12 minutes of total stereo record time (sample RAM) before you'd need to starting transferring it to a Flash Board (ROM)... Where you could store hours of audio. On a computer (via an audio interface) you'd have virtually limitless total record time.

 
Posted : 19/11/2015 9:49 am
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I very much appreciate your detailed reply, Bad Mister! While I already knew the difference between MIDI and audio formats and have successfully created an audio file from the XF I was not trying to transfer it to CUBASE via my XF's USB. But, I did enjoy and appreciate reading your explanation (as I always enjoy and learn by reading your posts here and on Motifator).

VOICE sync is not enabled by default when VST editor is opened (for me, anyway), after loading a project. GLOBAL and CURRENT are always enabled and that is what i have been using except for experimenting by selecting all three a few times, which seemed to make no difference. I just now tried using only GLOBAL and while it did not take several minutes as usual to sync, it took more than 2 seconds. (17 seconds to be exact) so I suspect my laptop or USB cable may be the reason. But that's much better than several minutes, and again, thank you.

I will try learning to use the SOUND BROWSER to save mixes, as well as other CUBASE features to make my sequencing experience more enjoyable and fruitful. Thank you very much for the links!

I was NOT aware that the XF could not send audio via USB and assumed so, since it can when using FireWire, but since I have not been successful passing vocals through my XF to CUBASE via USB, I concluded as much. Unfortunately, my laptop is not FireWire compatible.

I have ordered a Steinberg UR242 for recording vocals.

On a side note, while I am learning to play and definitely enjoying my newly purchased XF7, the somewhat regular 'freezing' that happens when rapidly auditioning various Voices is quite annoying, to say the least. I have read of others experiencing this issue (some while using the sequencer I think). Is there a resolution? Or, is the XF's cpu just grinding to a halt, similar to a Windows computer's "crunching data"? I have the latest firmware installed, btw.

Thanks again and Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

 
Posted : 20/11/2015 5:52 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Freezing and the behavior you describe about how long it takes for you to execute things is, clearly, not typical. And while I'm sure there are others with the same exact problem as you (such misery always has company) I am confident in most, if not all, cases it is due to a setup issue and nothing more. Setup issues can include conflicts, operating system and firmware issue, and even just bad routing.

I just now tried using only GLOBAL and while it did not take several minutes as usual to sync, it took more than 2 seconds. (17 seconds to be exact) so I suspect my laptop or USB cable may be the reason.

Yikes!

Changing between active Projects in Cubase, even with the Editor restoring the entire mix should not take more than 7 or 8 seconds. You can open all the files (Projects) and simply "activate" the one you are going to play. Because you've stored the Project with the VST Editor open, and have set preferences for it to reload your synth with the "current" setup, the time from click to open and hearing music will be (typically) less than 10 seconds ...even with the human pause to find which one you want to play next.

I know there isn't an ironclad definition of what "ridiculously long" is, but if ten seconds qualifies as that (in some music genres, 10 seconds of no music is an eternity), then I recommend you use your Project setups differently... You can combine two or musical compositions into a single Project, creating a medley where one song transitions into another, via artful use of program change, tempo change and control change messages you can transition the mix as well.

 
Posted : 20/11/2015 6:44 pm
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As referenced from my initial posting, "ridiculously long" syncing was several minutes while having GLOBAL and CURRENT selected.

As far as my XF freezing, it started immediately within a few hours during first use with no hookups to any external equipment or computers and no flashcards installed. It continues to freeze on a regular basis, (once a week at least) whether using it standalone with no pedals, no USB connected and either headphones or with amp, or hooked to the computer via USB. The only resolution is power off and reboot XF. If I'm using CUBASE at the time, that too has to be shut down and restarted after XF has come online to re-establish connections. I'm not sure what "setup" could have to do with it. This seems like a "glitch" in the XF's processing. It arrived from Sweetwater Music already updated to latest firmware.

 
Posted : 20/11/2015 9:10 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

updated to latest firmware

... which happens to be?

We ask because this is not right and should be addressed. You should call Yamaha Customer Support 714.522.9000 and report this issue. After they have you verify that you do indeed have the latest firmware, they'll help you update it and reset it and make a determination about getting you a working XF.

Motif XF don't normally freeze ... Not working ones. Let us know if you need more information.

 
Posted : 20/11/2015 11:31 pm
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firmware ver 1.50.4
kernel ver 2.6.10_mvl401 - 1.1.1.motif_xsmc.98
contents ver 1.50.4

 
Posted : 21/11/2015 1:29 am
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