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Motif ES - Can you turn off MIDI velocity control messages from an external MIDI pedalboard connected to Motif ES

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thomas
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I am performing with a Motif ES using an external bass pedalboard connected as an external MIDI controller triggering internal Motif voices. This MIDI controller is touch sensitive which I want to disable somehow. I suppose I could edit the velocity curve to hold at 127 for every internal voice triggered but is there an easier way to simply tell my ES to ignore velocity control messages from this external MIDI controller?

 
Posted : 31/01/2023 11:53 pm
Jason
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There isn't a way to ignore velocity (which is part of the note on event) from external MIDI devices globally. You'll need to either fix the bass pedal's outgoing velocity (may not be possible on your device) or customize Voices/Performances to take care of this.

 
Posted : 01/02/2023 12:08 am
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Just in case you haven't done this check the doc for your pedalboard. Some pedalboards (e.g. Roland PK-6) allow you to specify a fixed velocity for all notes.

 
Posted : 01/02/2023 12:28 am
thomas
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Thank you Guys... I have a StudioLogic MP113 pedal board. The manual just says that Velocity Curve is the default, suggesting there might be a way to disable it, but I haven't figured it out yet.

 
Posted : 01/02/2023 2:22 pm
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The manual just says that Velocity Curve is the default, suggesting there might be a way to disable it, but I haven't figured it out yet.

Have you contacted the manufacturer or a service center?

https://www.studiologic-music.com/support/mp_pedalboard/

Their webpage has links for both of those and they may be able to help. No way of knowing what 'default' even means when it comes to a Velocity Curve unless they mean 'linear'.

 
Posted : 01/02/2023 6:46 pm
Jason
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What you can do is put something between to fix the velocity values. MIDI Solutions offers a Velocity Controller that allows for applying a fixed velocity curve. No host (computer) is needed for this to work.

Page 6 shows 5 fixed velocity settings (in=any & out=1, or out=32, or out=64, or out=96, or out=127).
https://midisolutions.com/MIDI%20Solutions%20Velocity%20Converter.pdf

There may be other solutions out there that can accomplish the same thing also without having to have a computer in the mix.

 
Posted : 01/02/2023 7:54 pm
thomas
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Thanks for all your research and suggestions. i did confirm with Studiologic that their velocity curve is fixed and cannot be changed. I will just train my heavy foot to be gentler and more consistent. Maybe you could also help me to set up other parameters to have the pedalboard act not just as a bass but more specifically as a bass guitar. I am using it in a performance with electric piano voices connected to a damper pedal for sustain. I know I can turn off the damper controller to the pedalboard, but can I then have all bass notes sustain automatically upon impact? If so, can you walk me through the necessary settings?

 
Posted : 02/02/2023 2:59 am
Jason
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I know I can turn off the damper controller to the pedalboard, but can I then have all bass notes sustain automatically upon impact? If so, can you walk me through the necessary settings?

I think what you're asking for is a way to just tap the pedals quickly and the notes will end up sounding legato and connected even though the notes are staccato. There's not an "auto sustain" switch you can throw. However, you can build a sound that keeps sounding (due to the Release of the AEG) when you lift off the pedal. Then you can also use a motion sequence to stop the release of the last note and start over.

Check out:
https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/voices/90136
... as an example of how to do this.

A forum thread discussion around this:
https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/don-t-know-how-to-set-a-note-hold-or-latch-for-a-part-in-a-performance-please-help#reply-113970

An alternate way you could do this is setup the bass as a monophonic instrument so only one note can play at a time (no chords) and use the sustain pedal intentionally as always on. This would also accomplish a similar result.

 
Posted : 02/02/2023 3:27 am
thomas
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Thanks for all of this. Probably best to build a monophonic voice with long release...... Or.. another idea... I have an FC 3 sustain pedal which I needed exclusive to control the sustain of my lead electric pianos in my performance. However, I also have a latching switch controller connected which I have been using to turn on/off organ rotary effects. Could I assign this to control sustain on the bass, then just hit it once on for sustain and hit it again to palm mute (no sustain?) I would just make sure the bass voice is mono to move from one note to another.... Possible? Would I have to hit the latching switch with every note or would the on/off setting remain as last set throughout the performance?

 
Posted : 02/02/2023 2:14 pm
Jason
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However, I also have a latching switch controller connected which I have been using to turn on/off organ rotary effects. Could I assign this to control sustain on the bass, then just hit it once on for sustain and hit it again to palm mute (no sustain?)

You can do this - but "sustain" (as in the MIDI that happens when you press the sustain pedal) can only be accomplished with the sustain pedal. You'll need to do something like the linked trick or just use long release and not worry about the potential for overlap of long release tails when playing notes too close together.

The latch works but keep in mind you only get two states. So you can setup either sustain or muted (I'm guessing muted without sustain? - you could do either way). The muted you'd probably want to use XA control which means I would make the FS the same MIDI CC value as [ASSIGN 1] or [ASSIGN 2] so when latched one of these buttons is pressed and when the latch is released the assign button turns off. This would save polyphony since only either the muted elements would sound or the standard bass would sound and not both at the same time. The alternative is not to worry about making the footswitch toggle an ASSIGN switch and instead use element volume to make one set of elements sound vs another. This means both elements will be active at the same time (2x polyphony hit vs using XA control -- for the bass only). That said - you may have polyphony to spare.

 
Posted : 02/02/2023 3:19 pm
thomas
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I appreciate all of this.... I am trying to keep up with you, remember I am still working with my dinosaur Motif ES. I went into UTILITY mode and assigned the FootSwitch to Sustain. I then returned to my PERFORMANCE, Part 1 = Bass and Part 2 = Piano. I then went to Controller Assignments for each part. For the bass, part 1, I turned off sustain and turned on FS (footswitch). For piano, part 2, I turned on sustain and turned off the footswitch. Part 1 bass seems to work as expected, sustain latches on or off everytime I hit the footswitch. However, the latching switch also still seems to control sustain on my part 2 piano, which I expected would not be affected by the footswitch. The goal is to have the latching footswitch control sustain only on part 1 /bass and have my sustain pedal control sustain only on part 2 /piano.

 
Posted : 03/02/2023 3:21 pm
Jason
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Oops - yes, sorry I switched to thinking about the newer generations. Earlier I was keeping this straight. I can see what my MO6 can do in this department (which is an ES era little brother of the Motif).

 
Posted : 03/02/2023 5:36 pm
Jason
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If you set the assignable footswitch to CC #64 then the assignable footswitch will be identical to the sustain pedal connected to the "sustain" port. There's not more than one sustain - so if any other part responds to sustain - then it will do this for both the A(ssignable).Footswitch and Sustain ports. If you have either turned on for that Part (doesn't matter) when the A.Footswitch is set to CC 64 then pressing the pedal (whichever is on) will sustain all Parts.

There's not a different sustain for A.Footswitch vs. the Sustain port. So even if you turn off the "sustain" port in a given port - it's going to sustain if you press (latch) the a.footswitch.

That soundmondo stuff I sent before isn't valid for ES.

What I'm going to do is see if I can set Assign A (or B) to target the release time and set the CC# to the same CC# used for the footswitch (something other than 64 and other reserved values). Sometimes the footswitch can indirectly control internal features and sometimes it can't. If this is possible, then it would similar to the soundmondo solution (although without a way to stop the release when a new note is pressed like the soundmondo -- different keyboard -- solution).

The MO6 has only an assignable footswitch - so I can pretty much test this with what I have.

 
Posted : 03/02/2023 8:35 pm
Jason
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Update - further research I would set the footswitch to 18 (Assign A) then edit assign A's destination to impact the release.

My MO6 hasn't been powered on in years. Probably more than 6 years. And, luck would have it, the I2C bus is messed up (Yamaha calls this the EBUS). The I2C lights up the buttons, senses button presses, and senses piano key presses (and maybe a few more misc things). I've seen this before and had to reflow the I2C master part. This time it may be interconnect oxidation. It'll be an easy fix but I have to tear apart the keyboard again to get it to work and go through that rigamaroo. May be a while before I can get to this.

 
Posted : 03/02/2023 8:58 pm
thomas
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Topic starter
 

I appreciate you taking the time to try to find a creative solution. Now that I know I can't run two sustain controllers sending different on/off signals to different parts, I am content to run the sustain control to the piano and simply hold the bass pedal down. for the desired sustain length. Let me still ask, just for academic purposes, if I did assign the latching switch to CC for release, would the on value be an offset to whatever preset amount of release was otherwise set to the voice?

 
Posted : 07/02/2023 2:30 pm
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