I am clear on the fact that my Motif XF is, in and of itself, an audio interface and that with the FW16E installed, I can import audio and MIDI into Cubase and monitor Cubase through the outputs on my Motif. I do wonder though, would there be any advantages or disadvantages to having an additional audio interface connected to my computer?

The Motif XF has an audio interface when you add the FW16E. It functions as a 16-input/6-output audio interface for your computer. If there is any advantage to having an additional audio interface it would be in giving you more simultaneous inputs. The FW16E is designed to the give the keyboard player/composer a small format, extremely high-quality audio/MIDI studio environment built around their keyboard. The 16 audio buses running between the XF and the computer allow you to send internal Parts and/or the A/D Input Part to the computer. There no other audio interface that allows you the routing flexibility from your XF to your DAW. Assuming the XF is your central music device in the small format studio.

By default, all 16 PARTS and the A/D INPUT part are initially assigned to the stereo L/R bus. A "bus" is a vehicle for transporting passengers from one location to another along a specific route. In this case audio is the passenger. So when you first turn on your XF, all of the PARTS are assigned to ride the L/R stereo bus to the output. You can assign any of the PARTs to an assignable (FW) output. The FW16E gives you fourteen additional assignable outputs. These can be configured as odd/even stereo pairs or as mono channels as necessary. Again as many passengers as you desire can ride a particular bus. A Bus is either mono or it is stereo

So the XF with an FW16E has "L/R" plus "FW1"-"FW14" as available output options. The stereo pairings (as mentioned are always configured ODD/EVEN) would be FW1/2, FW3/4, FW5/6,... FW13/14. Or you can set a bus as mono, FW1, FW2, FW3.... etc. Or you can make combinations as required. As a quick example, say you are recording XF drums and want to have separate audio tracks in Cubase, even though they exist on a single MIDI Track you might assign your drums out as AUDIO as follows:
FW1 = Kick
FW2 = Snare
FW3 = Hihat closed, Hihat Open, Pedal Hihat
FW4 = Crash
FW 5/6 = Tom-Toms
FW 7 = Ride
FW 8 = Cowbell

How many inputs you record simultaneously plays a key role in all of this. If you are attempting to record an entire band (of living, breathing musicians) simultaneously to separate Tracks - it would make utmost sense to have an external audio interface to handle the multiple signals simultaneously> However, thanks to the innovations of Mr. Les Paul, the father of multi-track recording - not all parts need to be recorded simultaneously. That is the key thing here... just what do you need to accomplish at one time?

This is a personal choice and a music production decision you must make for yourself.

There are some disadvantages in having multiple audio interfaces - because of the limitations of computers as recording devices - therefore you must learn to work around these limitations. Computers were not built to be recording studios (contrary to popular belief) - it is the work of the clever programmers and designers that we can make them into very decent recording devices. It is the audio interface's DRIVER that makes the computer do what you need. It 'teaches' the computer what to do with the incoming signals from that particular interface... Out of the box your computer is not a very good recording device. With the help of external devices (audio interfaces) and those all important DRIVERS, that the computer becomes a studio.

If you are using a Windows computer you will not be able to have more than one audio interface active at one time (this is a given, currently).
If you are using a Macintosh computer you will be able to build what is called an "Aggregate audio device" that can handle multiple audio interfaces and address each with its own driver (a requirement).
This is not as limiting as it may seem. It comes down to how your go about recording - how many simultaneous inputs you are going to be dealing with and your WORKFLOW.

If you are recording a 'live' band with Drums, Bass, Guitar and a horn section - and are attempting to record each to its own track. and you want everyone playing simultaneously... then you might want to opt to get an audio interface that can accommodate all the inputs you require at once. But your workflow may be far from being this complex. If it is just you recording and you are multi-tracking, i.e., building the composition one part at a time, there is no real advantage to having tons of inputs active. So having multiple drivers running in an Aggregate system may not even be necessary in your situation. Mileage varies.

Part of the design concept of the Motif XF and its FW16E is to accommodate a situation where you can work with the Motif XF for your music tracks and if you so desire, you can switch to a different audio interface for your overdubs. Cubase allows you to "hot swap" the driver (you do not even have to shut down your Project, you can simply reconfigure your setup with a few clicks and continue to work).

If you go for a different audio interface (in addition or instead of the FW16E) you may be able to get one with more ins and outs but you would be hard pressed to find one with better audio quality. The quality of the FW16E based FireWire is pristine and hard to beat without spending over a thousand dollars for your audio interface (and even then I’d be willing to take on the challenge...) but say you want to use an audio interface that allows 8 simultaneous inputs, provides +48V Phantom power… we get it:

Here is what you get and lose. Yes, you will be able to connect other gear simultaneously and route each device to its own individual track (this is exactly what you get with the FW16E for each internal PART - the ability to route them to their own individual tracks) - this is all good. Switching audio devices is part of the concept and very much accounted for in how the Motif XF and Cubase work.

If you use an external audio interface, the Motif XF will have to be connected to it (just like everything else audio in your studio). The device acting as the main audio interface is the one that feeds your monitor speakers (Very important). It is responsible for getting audio into and back out of the computer.

You can connect the XF to it via the L/R Main analog outputs or via the coaxial SPDIF out (depending on the inputs available on the external audio interface). So the XF in that situation is just another audio input source.

Now most home studios do not require a setup that can accommodate scores of musicians playing simultaneously. Therefore, one of your options is using your external audio interface for some things and your FW16E for recording your XF. For example, I usually track the backing music with the Motif XF, first, if I have a vocalist that requires some condenser microphone I might use an external audio interface for that particular overdub. If I then bring in background singers, I connect multiple microphones to an 8 channel interface device. Being able to easily switch back and forth, is "real world", and one of the main advantages (not really appreciated until you get in the situation) of working with Cubase software as a DAW. And the fact that you can “hot wire” your gear - that is, change mid-Project without having to shut down and reboot - is beautiful.

If you are working with a Mac, you can actually build an AGGREGATE Audio device that allows both audio interfaces to run simultaneously. This would be useful in certain setup situations and makes it not an EITHER - OR proposition with your Audio setup. If you are working with Windows, not to worry, again build your basic tracks using the FW16E as your audio interface, then switch drivers and connect to your other audio interface and continue your work.

Once you have recorded tracks as audio, the other audio interface device will simply play the audio back. I think this is a point that most people miss. The audio interface that initially processes and records the data needs its own driver, but once recorded to the DAW any audio interface can playback the recorded audio. So you can playback your music tracks recorded from the XF through that other audio interface (no problem) and vice versa.

You do not connect the FW16E to anything but a computer, directly via FW. You mentioned connecting it to another audio interface - that does not happen via FW. They speak different protocols so there is no direct connection between the audio interfaces.
You do not connect any other audio interface device to anything but a computer. You never connect the FW16E to another audio interface via FW. That is not how it works. Each device connects separately to the computer.

Hope that helps. If you have specific questions please feel free to ask.

Thanks so much for your detailed response, Bad Mister. This is such a big help in understanding how to use my Motif in conjunction with Cubase. As I mentioned in my last list of questions, I am very new to Cubase and home recording and I have to admit manuals can be quite cumbersome.

I do have a some more questions and hope you can help. Your responses in "quotes".

You indicated that "The Motif XF has an audio interface when you add the FW16E. It functions as a 16-input/6-output audio interface for your computer."

I am a bit confused about this because I thought the "16" refers to outputs from what you mention later on in your response:
"So the XF with an FW16E has "L/R" plus "FW1"-"FW14" as available output options."

I actually thought the Motif has 4 outputs - L (mono) /R, which I currently have my monitor speakers connected to, and Assignable L/R. I do see that there is a digital out, MIDI out and I know there is also a headphone jack, but I don't think those are what you are referring to. Are the 6 outputs through the FW16E itself?

As far as recording goes, I expect I will mostly use my Motif, although I do plan on recording some guitar and vocals. So, I am thrilled to hear that the Motif is such an excellent interface, with pristine sound quality. Great, I'm sold on using as my main audio interface because my Motif is in fact the central piece in my studio.

With regard to vocals you pointed out an approach you might use: "For example, I usually track the backing music with the Motif XF, first, if I have a vocalist that requires some condenser microphone I might use an external audio interface for that particular overdub."

If you are recording just one vocal at a time, would there be a reason you would not use the Motif's A/D input with mic for that? I get why one would need an external audio interface if recording a choir or multiple voices simultaneously. Also, I suppose an external AI would come in handy if recording an acoustic drum set, although there are some that say you can get a good drum recording with just one well placed microphone. I'll have to experiment with that

In any case, I expect I will be using the "Les Paul Approach" for the most part and it is great to know that I can record an individual instrument whether it be a Motif voice or an external instrument through an instrument cable, or microphone through a microphone cable. And if I read your response correctly, I can tell the Motif exactly where I want to route each instrument to in Cubase - i.e. which track?

I have only played with the Motif XF Standalone editor so far and i haven't ventured into Cubase for recording and editing yet. When I get there, do I understand correctly that I can playback that audio through my Motif? And I could also hook-up a second pair of monitors to the assignable L/R - is that right? Is there a quick way of describing to me the setup in Cubase in order to playback a Cubase file using my Motif as the audio interface?

Say I do get another AI at some point. Does it mean that I will need to change settings in Cubase each time I switch from the Motif as my AI to an external AI? If so, is it particularly difficult? And you indicated that if I had another audio interface, I would need to connect the Motif to it and then the external audio interface to the computer. Does this mean I am plugging and unplugging cables to make that switch? Also, won't I lose sound quality by connecting my Motif to the external AI - that is, unless I spend big money on a high end AI? I currently have a PC, so it'll be one AI at a time for me - OK, I can live with that.

I'm thinking of getting a Steinberg CMC-PD controller for drums (and whatever else it might be interesting for). Do you know if I can use it to trigger Motif drum sounds or would it only be able to trigger drum sounds within Cubase? It would be really cool to be able to use the Motif drums as well.

You indicated that "...you can playback your music tracks recorded from the XF through that other audio interface (no problem) and vice versa." Is that an easy switch within Cubase? Is it just a matter of selecting the desired interface in output settings?

Finally, good explanation on the FireWire connection. That makes sense to me now.

Thanks again for your help,
Brian L

You indicated that "The Motif XF has an audio interface when you add the FW16E. It functions as a 16-input/6-output audio interface for your computer."

I am a bit confused about this because I thought the "16" refers to outputs from what you mention later on in your response:
"So the XF with an FW16E has "L/R" plus "FW1"-"FW14" as available output options."

Don't be confused it is a matter of "view point". I am a former full time recording engineer so forgive me if I always relate things in terms of signal flow. I find it not only helps to explain things but is important in gaining a fuller understanding of how things work between the Instrument (Motif XF), the computer and the Software DAW (Cubase). The FW16E is a 16-input/6-output audio interface for your computer. The "for your computer" is the key to this point. The number of INPUTS and OUTPUTS is always listed from the computer's point of view. So there are 16 input buses coming INTO the computer via the audio interface (FW16E). And, exactly, the source of those 16 channels is the Motif XF. So the XF's 16 OUTPUTS are connected to the 16 INPUTS the FW16E has for the computer.

The confusing thing about this is because the FW16E is physically placed inside the Motif XF it is easy to start to think about it as apart of the XF. And physically it is, but in the sense of this system the FW16E is a peripheral for the computer (that just happens to mount in the keyboard instead of in the computer or instead of existing as an external box). The 16 buses (connections) have to take place inside the Motif XF; or you'd have to run 16 analog cables from the XF to the computer. That is not cost effective or physically attractive. But for the sake of clarity... imagine if the 16 OUTPUTS from the XF were sixteen 1/4" jacks on its back panel and the audio interface was an external box that you then had to connect to your computer - you need to run sixteen 1/4" cables to the interface and then connect from there to the computer. (that would be cumbersome).

Instead the 16 connections from the Motif XF take place internally - inside the instrument and are transferred to the FW16E by a neat flat wire multi-pin connector. But think of the FW16E as a very efficient audio interface for the computer - it just happens to mount in the synthesizer (for convenience) instead of being an external box or a card that fits in the back of a computer.

The 16 OUTPUTS of the XF are "viewed" from the computer as 16 channels coming IN. Make sense?
The outputs of the XF are inputs to the computer.

It is always Output-to-Input - if you follow the signal flow. The 6 (computer) Audio OUTPUTS of the FW16E send audio from the computer back to the Motif XF (audio interface). These are three stereo pairs:
_ The first pair go to the "Motif XF Main Left / Motif XF Main Right" analog outputs of the XF (and feed your monitor speakers).

_ The second pair "Motif XF FW L / Motif XF FW R" sends signal from Cubase to the internal Motif XF mixer where you can combine this return with your current internal mix or you can route the return to the XF’s Integrated Sampler. The Firewire return has its own audio channel with access to Volume, Pan, and the SYSTEM EFFECTS.

_ The third pair "Motif XF ASGN L / Motif XF ASGN R" sends signal from Cubase to the Assignable Left/Right audio outputs of the Motif XF on the back panel. This signal can be sent a second set of monitor speakers or used to create a separate monitor mix. This is very useful when you have additional musicians in a record situation and you require a separate headphone system. You can feed this output mix to an external headphone amplifier system and deliver a separate discreet mix (the full version of Cubase gives you an opportunity to setup such separate STUDIO SENDS if you require this functionality).

If you are recording just one vocal at a time, would there be a reason you would not use the Motif's A/D input with mic for that? I get why one would need an external audio interface if recording a choir or multiple voices simultaneously.

Most often I do use the Motif's A/D input for a microphone, but as I said if the mic was a condenser microphone (which requires +48V phantom power source) that's when I might opt for a separate external audio interface. The Motif XF does not provide power for condenser microphones.

I have only played with the Motif XF Standalone editor so far and i haven't ventured into Cubase for recording and editing yet. When I get there, do I understand correctly that I can playback that audio through my Motif? And I could also hook-up a second pair of monitors to the assignable L/R - is that right? Is there a quick way of describing to me the setup in Cubase in order to playback a Cubase file using my Motif as the audio interface?

The Motif XF is an audio interface in every sense of the word. It completely, if you wish takes over all audio and MIDI duties for the computer. This includes all audio that you might play on your computer - that will come through your Motif XF Main Left and Right outputs. The XF is your audio interface - it is responsible for all audio going into and coming back out of your computer... including any games, videos, CDs or what have you... Any thing dealing with AUDIO can pass through the XF.

Hooking a second pair of monitors cannot be done with the entry level version of the Cubase software (Cubase AI), only the top-of-the-line version (currently 7.5) has the capability to route multiple mixes back to the XF. You can create separate monitor mixes and use the Assignable Outputs to run a second pair of monitors or to feed a headphone amplifier system that you use from multiple musicians. Cubase AI does not have the ability to generate the multiple mixes that this requires from computer side of things.

Please do not use the abbreviation "AI" when you mean audio interface - it is confusing, since the version of software that comes with your Motif is called "Cubase AI" for an entirely different reason... the AI in Cubase AI stands for Advanced Integration. Not audio interface.

Say I do get another AI at some point. Does it mean that I will need to change settings in Cubase each time I switch from the Motif as my AI to an external AI? If so, is it particularly difficult? And you indicated that if I had another audio interface, I would need to connect the Motif to it and then the external audio interface to the computer. Does this mean I am plugging and unplugging cables to make that switch? Also, won't I lose sound quality by connecting my Motif to the external AI - that is, unless I spend big money on a high end AI?

You will be switching settings in Cubase each time you switch to a different audio interface. This is no big deal. Of course it is BIG DEAL when you don't know how to do it. But if you have ever been in a real recording studio - configuring your gear for the type of session you will be doing is a part of the routine. And it is routine. Once you have setup anything in Cubase you can make it a work Template. This means, once setup properly you can take a "snapshot" of the settings; name and keep them in a template so that when you want to work a certain way you just launch that configuration.

Yes changing audio interfaces means switching cables - of course, you don't have to if you throw enough money at it. I imagine you can create a patchbay of some kind that would allow you to electronically repatch everything. But given the cost and wiring, most people just move the cables when they need to do an overdub. Knowing you need to do this you can prepare your space for this contingency. The only people who have problems are those who setup without considering this. So consider this before you tie down all your cabling.

Now for some more 'real world' situations. In most home studio environments - oft overlooked is the fact that when doing vocals or recording anything with a microphone, you are not going to be using your speakers at all. In fact, you want to be able to turn them completely OFF. In most home studios the space you are in acts as both the studio and the control room. So you cannot have a vocal mic open and your speakers ON at the same time. So 'real world' you are not moving cables to your other audio interface - when you are using it for overdubbing you are working 'silent' in the room and everyone is in headphones. Many home recording engineers learn this through EXPERIENCE - the experience of "why does everything I record with my microphone have all the other audio tracks "leaking" in". One of the most asked questions, actually - it usually starts by some one saying the FW channels 'leak' into each other 🙂 when actually it is pilot error. If a mic is open in the room with speakers ON - it does not know NOT to record all the audio. so instead of their vocals being isolated - they hear the speakers playing in the background. It is not leakage - it is they FORGOT to turn off the speakers while using an open microphone.

The role of the audio interface demands that it be the main routing box for all audio going into and all audio coming back out of the computer that goes to the speakers. So the device that is acting as your audio interface is the center (or hub) of the bus station. All routing physically takes place through this station.

I'm thinking of getting a Steinberg CMC-PD controller for drums (and whatever else it might be interesting for). Do you know if I can use it to trigger Motif drum sounds or would it only be able to trigger drum sounds within Cubase? It would be really cool to be able to use the Motif drums as well.

The CMC-PD can be used as a peripheral for Cubase or you can use directly with the Motif XF. Please see the Motif XF's Supplemental Manual (page 6) for details.

You indicated that "...you can playback your music tracks recorded from the XF through that other audio interface (no problem) and vice versa." Is that an easy switch within Cubase? Is it just a matter of selecting the desired interface in output settings?

Yes.

Hello Bad Mister. Thanks for your very detailed responses - can't tell you how much this is helping me to understand how the Motif interfaces with the computer. I must say there is a pretty steep learning curve on the Motif alone (not to mention using it with Cubase) and I realize that the reference manual is really just for REFERENCE, and it doesn't really show you how to do things. I have decided I am going to purchase the "Motif XS Master Class" DVD, which you did along with Tony Escueta. Even though it was done for the XS, I understand from what i have read that the XF is only about 10% different from the XS, otherwise it is about 90% the same.

NOW I understand the terminology you used with regard to Firewire inputs and outputs. Makes perfect sense, and these concepts don't feel confusing anymore. In this case, it's all about the computer.

Regarding the outputs (yes, now I get that they are outputs FROM the computer INTO the Motif, and the 16 inputs are INTO the computer). You say there are 3 stereo pairs of outputs. Are these each given a specific number within Cubase, such as 1/2 (to Main L/R), 3/4 (to FW L/FW R) and 5/6 (to Assign L/Assign R)? When I send audio from Cubase (or another external audio source) to my internal mixer in the Motif, does that data 'live' in the on-board RAM, in the same place sample data would 'live'? When I want to select where I send the audio - i.e. to the mixer or the integrated sampler, I'm not sure how I would decide whether I would go into integrated sampling via Voice, Performance, Pattern or Song mode. In any case, when I get to the INTEGRATED SAMPLING screen I have a category for SAMPLE SOURCE and SAMPLE DESTINATION. I have researched this and I expect I would select FW as the input source if I am sending audio from the computer. And A/D Input if I am sampling a guitar, voice, etc. But again how do I know if I start with Voice, Performance, etc if I don't know where I'm going with the sample? I have a feeling I need to know what my goal is before I just start recording samples or importing audio from Cubase.

I'm digging the fact that I can do ALMOST anything with only the Motif and my PC. And if I ever have a need for an additional audio interface (my apologies for getting lazy typing in my last reply and using AI in reference to an audio interface), it is good to know that it is not difficult and that it is simply a matter of getting used to the routine of unplugging/plugging cables.

Your explanation of recording vocals or anything else with a mic is very helpful. Makes perfect sense to me the way you explained it and now I don't have to learn the hard way and waste recording time making those mistakes. I'll be sure my monitor speakers are OFF!

I decided to go ahead and purchase the full version of Cubase (7.5) as the upgrade from AI7 was being offered at a large discount. Can't wait to dive in and get my 'hands dirty'. Now I know from your response that I'll have the option to create separate monitor mixes and run one to a second set of monitor speakers - great!

Do you have any recommendations on headphone amplifier system, or type of system that would be best used in conjunction with the Motif? The units I looked at have separate L/R inputs and then multiple headphone out jacks. I don't know if this the case with all of them. If i incorporated a headphone amplifier system, does this mean that I would sacrifice my assignable L/R on the Motif and would not be able to have a second set of monitor speakers in conjunction with the headphones? OK, since I wouldn't have headphones on and listen to the monitors at the same time, maybe this is another one of those scenarios where I would need to change cables. Is that right?Or type of system that would be best used in conjunction with the Motif?

Brian L

You say there are 3 stereo pairs of outputs. Are these each given a specific number within Cubase, such as 1/2 (to Main L/R), 3/4 (to FW L/FW R) and 5/6 (to Assign L/Assign R)?

They are given numbers - but if you install the "Yamaha Motif XF Extension for Steinberg", Cubase will identify them by their proper names instead of just the numbers. Highly recommended.

When I send audio from Cubase (or another external audio source) to my internal mixer in the Motif, does that data 'live' in the on-board RAM, in the same place sample data would 'live'?

When audio comes into the Motif XF mixer it arrives on its own audio channel with its own set of parameters - to see the Motif XF mixer:
From SONG or PATTERN mode
Press [MIXING]
Press [F1] PART 1-16
Press [F2] AUDIO
The [F2] Audio inputs shows you both the analog (AD) and digital (FW) audio input channels.

You can see the EDIT parameters of these as follows:
From [MIXING]
Press [EDIT]
Press [COMMON EDIT]
Press [F4] AUDIO IN

If you go to [INTEGRATED SAMPLING]
Press [F6] REC (as if you were going to setup to record a sample)
You can select an "INPUT SOURCE" for the sampler...
Your options include the A/D Input and FW (if you select RESAMPLE - then all inputs are available).

Do you have any recommendations on headphone amplifier system, or type of system that would be best used in conjunction with the Motif? The units I looked at have separate L/R inputs and then multiple headphone out jacks. I don't know if this the case with all of them. If i incorporated a headphone amplifier system, does this mean that I would sacrifice my assignable L/R on the Motif and would not be able to have a second set of monitor speakers in conjunction with the headphones? OK, since I wouldn't have headphones on and listen to the monitors at the same time, maybe this is another one of those scenarios where I would need to change cables. Is that right?

I don't have a specific recommendation for the headphone system.
And you have a good handle on the assignable L/R - you configure things as you need.

Thanks again for your help. You make the world a better place by sharing your knowledge and experience freely. I will reciprocate when I have something to offer the forum.
Incidentally, I have already installed the "Yamaha Motif XF Extension for Steinberg" so I should be set. 🙂