I'm sad to see the XF gone only because at some point in the future support for drivers and editors on new computer OSes will cease. Other than that, I'm OK with it. I'm not the type to flip instruments all the time when the next one comes along, had an ES for six years and the only reason I got the XF was the flash memory meant no more waiting 45 minutes for samples to load. It's been five years now and I expect to keep using it for another ten at least.

Montage looks great but what it offers is not for me and I'm 100% OK with that.

Brian wrote: Montage looks great but what it offers is not for me and I'm 100% OK with that.

Just my humble opinion: XF is waaay better vs. Montage. And, by the way: oficial specs of the XF are "2Gb Flash ROM", but there is a german company MUTEC, it makes a 2GB Flash Board for XF/MOXF, works fine. With these 2GB Mutec boards REAL memory of the MOXF can be expanded up to 2Gb (for XF up to 4Gb):)

Wow! I initiated this thread first on Motifator and then here on the official Yamaha forum long before the Montage was released.

I stated my personal feelings regarding the direction Yamaha took, not just with the Montage, that is fine, but with mainly discontinuing the Motif XF from production.

Did I ever think that there would be over 1,141 views and 16 responses? No.

One thing I will say, it does speak a lot that so many people are interested. As I have mentioned before, I, and others who own a Motif XF are set. Our concern is if either we, who love the Motif XF, or future owners (or those who try to buy one, but find it difficult because they are discontinued) find us left in the dust with updates, etc.

Support? I'm not concerned with that. Yamaha has proven itself to be good on that. I have been buying Yamaha instruments since the 70's. However, now that we are fully locked in the computer age, I agree with those who state above, will Yamaha continue to, in a software way, support the Motif XF? I have many keyboards from the 70's and 80's. All working just fine, all is well, don't need software updates. I got into the Motif realm late. I purchased my Motif XF8 in 2014. January of 2014 was the last update for the Motif XF (1.5) and I did expect there to be more to follow. Actually was told there would be.

I won't disclose my source, but I did talk with a true Yamaha source and was told that the Motif XF could have the one thing that I (as a software developer) suggested back in 2014 was to do a software/hardware upgrade for the Motif to utilize USB instead of Firewire since Firewire died a long time ago in the computer world. That source did tell me that it could be done no problem (as I suspected with my expertise in the field) but it was decided to not do this "upgrade" to the Motif due to putting development into the Montage and was simply a marketing strategy.

Yamaha has mentioned on many, many occasions that the Motif was a huge success. That equates to the fact that many, many people have purchased an extremely expensive instrument, the Motif. And beyond basic support, the Motif is done. That's a lot of people left in the dust expecting (hoping) that during a recession that many, many people have the money to buy a Montage. Well, top level, stadium/studio performers may have the money be able to buy a 4K instrument without batting an eye, but most of us who shelled out tough to get cash for the Motif, can't.

If Yamaha wants to dump some of the features of the Motif and create a new type of keyboard, no problem. Just please, don't forget about those of us who put out the hard earned cash for the greatest instrument to ever be created and continue to create new and exciting things, updates, etc. for us.

When I purchased my Motif XF8, the Apple OS was the only one supported for the Motif apps. I was told by both the store I purchased it from and Yamaha that Android counterparts of those apps would soon follow. Well we all know where that went. Apple is where Yamaha went and zero Android apps. Yes, I was told this by Yamaha representatives Android apps were around he corner.

To end this, I love Yamaha instruments, always have, always will. Recently I think they made a few bad decisions. Over eleven hundred reads of this post should say something. I don't see any other posts here in the forum getting that many hits. Doesn't that mean something?

Peace.

So, let me make sure I got this right - Yamaha discontinues a true flagship workstation that's been the best thing to ever happen to most users, introduces a flagship synth that is everything but a workstation and proudly declares it is not a replacement of the Motif series while there is no replacement for the discontinued Motif. Nice!Since both products are geared to totally different crowds, not to mention that the majority of Motif users will never look at the Montage (because it does not do what Motif does and does not offer anything that Motif can't do with little help), that constitutes different market demands. People who do not belong in the Montage column will still look to buy a workstation that can do on its own everything that's expected from a workstation to do. But there will be no one since it's discontinued! So, in a nutshell, if I want to buy a Motif XF7, create patterns for my intro, verses, bridges and choruses, string them together in a song mode and start recording the parts in my DAW/console or just compose, edit and play the entire song WITHOUT the need to be permanently plugged into a computer (because Yamaha, you see, it is all about the instrument not about how many additional pieces of technology I need to make that same instrument do the things it should be able to do on its own) I'm left out in the cold. Because online retailers already cleared out the XF7 and the rest of the Motifs will be gone soon too. What are my choices? Second hand? Ebay? No thanks! I'm already looking elsewhere (as in other manufacturer). Yamaha, you have a black hole where Motif once was and you'll have to admit the huge mistake sooner or later. Once Montage falls short of sales and people keep asking for the damn full blown sequencer you'll have to do something about it. And by the way, the huge disco knob makes this Montage thing look like a cheap $200 Casio!

Dick wrote:

... introduces a flagship synth that is everything but a workstation and proudly declares it is not a replacement of the Motif series while there is no replacement for the discontinued Motif...

... I want to buy a Motif XF7, create patterns for my intro, verses, bridges and choruses, string them together in a song mode and start recording the parts in my DAW/console or just compose, edit and play the entire song WITHOUT the need to be permanently plugged into a computer ...

... Once Montage falls short of sales and people keep asking for the damn full blown sequencer you'll have to do something about it. And by the way, the huge disco knob makes this Montage thing look like a cheap $200 Casio!

I see your points Dick but at the same time I believe (a personal opinion of a novice musician) it was a right move! Yes MOTIF's era is over. With DAWs getting stronger and stronger for live performance there will be no need for a sequencer, patter or performance modes. As an example, the JOBs menu in PATTERN/SONG modes are not convenient enough when it comes to working with a DAW.
Even working with MOTIF XF's remote software is more convenient compared to editing parameters. How can you copy let's say all the Filter parameters of an element and paste it into another element on the keyboard itself? Not possible! but with the remote tool you can do it in a blink of an eye.

I played with FMX engine and it sounds great. The onboard sound interface is a great upgrade you can route the VOICEs (or maybe performances?) to one of the 16 channels and do whatever you want with them in a DAW. These features are great!

I actually was hoping to see an upgrade in the eXpanded Articulation section and AWM2 engine but alas that didn't happen. In my humble opinion, what software really sucks at is loading samples and the amount of resources it uses is huge for a live performance. So for example, If I could have a Violin sound like Tyros5 or a Piano voice with SCM and sympathetic resonance that was going to be very sweet. Although I really liked the FM-X engine or MOD7 in Kronos, VSTs can handle them elegantly and in a reasonable time.

... So give DAW a try and you won't get back to MOTIF's interface anymore unless you really need it.

A wrote:

Dick wrote:

... introduces a flagship synth that is everything but a workstation and proudly declares it is not a replacement of the Motif series while there is no replacement for the discontinued Motif...

... I want to buy a Motif XF7, create patterns for my intro, verses, bridges and choruses, string them together in a song mode and start recording the parts in my DAW/console or just compose, edit and play the entire song WITHOUT the need to be permanently plugged into a computer ...

... Once Montage falls short of sales and people keep asking for the damn full blown sequencer you'll have to do something about it. And by the way, the huge disco knob makes this Montage thing look like a cheap $200 Casio!

I see your points Dick but at the same time I believe (a personal opinion of a novice musician) it was a right move! Yes MOTIF's era is over. With DAWs getting stronger and stronger for live performance there will be no need for a sequencer, patter or performance modes. As an example, the JOBs menu in PATTERN/SONG modes are not convenient enough when it comes to working with a DAW.
Even working with MOTIF XF's remote software is more convenient compared to editing parameters. How can you copy let's say all the Filter parameters of an element and paste it into another element on the keyboard itself? Not possible! but with the remote tool you can do it in a blink of an eye.

I played with FMX engine and it sounds great. The onboard sound interface is a great upgrade you can route the VOICEs (or maybe performances?) to one of the 16 channels and do whatever you want with them in a DAW. These features are great!

I actually was hoping to see an upgrade in the eXpanded Articulation section and AWM2 engine but alas that didn't happen. In my humble opinion, what software really sucks at is loading samples and the amount of resources it uses is huge for a live performance. So for example, If I could have a Violin sound like Tyros5 or a Piano voice with SCM and sympathetic resonance that was going to be very sweet. Although I really liked the FM-X engine or MOD7 in Kronos, VSTs can handle them elegantly and in a reasonable time.

... So give DAW a try and you won't get back to MOTIF's interface anymore unless you really need it.

I'm not against Montage in itself but rather the fact they got rid of the most successful workstation in history and not replacing it with anything. Montage is probably great for live situations but in studio where workflow, speed and convenience is everything it will fall short. Most importantly, it is the connection between the person and the instrument not a threesome that includes a person, an instrument and a computer. Have you seen a human being emotionally attached to a desktop? On the other hand, opening my first ES7 back in the day and just looking at it gave me the shivers! Having a full blown sequencer is a must for those who compose and record in a studio (and not only) situation and no DAW regardless how powerful (I have Samplitude x2, Sequoia 13 and Cubendo) can hold a candle to those hardware capabilities built-in the instrument itself. I don't know where you came from but strong sequencers have been the most sought after technical piece of equipment from the dawn of music programing and recording. Montage relies only on marketing hype about its two engines but they are not even new technology. To market and hope to establish a brand solely on sounds bundled in a hardware box is an idea that proved wrong 15 years ago. I dare anyone who claims Montage can do everything, sound better and more than a Motif to sit side by side with me and write, program, sequence, edit and record the same musical piece using Montage and a computer on one hand and me, with my Motif XF7, Omnisphere 2 and Nexus 2 with all the available sound libraries. Yamaha just made me strongly look at the Kronos X even though its sequencing capabilities are weaker than those found on Motif XF. Worst of all, if I need a new Motif in the future I won't able to get it...

With all due respect, Yamaha made huge mistake and don't want to admit. After having my XF7 for a year and fall in love with it... wanted to upgrade to XF 8. Start ro search for best deal and could not find it in any shop. I am frankly in shock that Yamaha discontinued the best workstation ever made.
Pity...really pity. Better get going and look up for some on eBay.

damir wrote:

With all due respect, Yamaha made huge mistake and don't want to admit.

Oh? Is your evidence of this forthcoming?

After having my XF7 for a year and fall in love with it... wanted to upgrade to XF 8. Start ro search for best deal and could not find it in any shop. I am frankly in shock that Yamaha discontinued the best workstation ever made.
Pity...really pity. Better get going and look up for some on eBay.

But your disappointment isn't grounded in anything material such as sales...customer & distributor surveys, market trends, competitor's offerings (or lack thereof), etc.
You're right! Why wouldn't I take your word rather than that of a company in the business since the 1880's?

Some of the comments are really unfair...

How on earth one would compare MOTIF XF's sequencer with a DAW's sequencer??? I'd say you should "pop" the comfort bubble. DAW's sequencer is superior and easier to work with. I couldn't afford MONTAGE that's why I bought a MOTIF XF. I believe when it comes to a synthesizer what matters is how it sounds not how it sequences! It doesn't really matter if it's not better than DAWs!

Good Heavens, Guys! The world's best workstation (the XF) just dropped in price and you're complaining? I just got around to buying one.

Just for clarity, I bought a Motif XF instead of a MOXF because the XF has After Touch and the MOXF doesn't. I didn't buy a Montage because, well, I just don't like paying full price for anything. The Motif XF does SO MUCH it's going to take me years to master it anyway. And I already have FM-X with my FS1R, so I figure I'm covered for a few years anyway. I've been buying Yamaha hardware for decades, why stop now?

You're very patient Phil, and we appreciate it! Take care my friends!

Thor wrote:

Good Heavens, Guys! The world's best workstation (the XF) just dropped in price and you're complaining? I just got around to buying one.

Just for clarity, I bought a Motif XF instead of a MOXF because the XF has After Touch and the MOXF doesn't. I didn't buy a Montage because, well, I just don't like paying full price for anything. The Motif XF does SO MUCH it's going to take me years to master it anyway. And I already have FM-X with my FS1R, so I figure I'm covered for a few years anyway. I've been buying Yamaha hardware for decades, why stop now?

You're very patient Phil, and we appreciate it! Take care my friends!

I guess one reason Yamaha integrated FM-X in Montage is that you can control the VOICE element modulation for EDM. For example dub-step sounds which you can control their parameters with super knob etc like crazy. Not sure how easy or possible it is on FS1R. I never had a chance to see and play with one.

I guess one reason Yamaha integrated FM-X in Montage is that you can control the VOICE element modulation for EDM. For example dub-step sounds which you can control their parameters with super knob etc like crazy. Not sure how easy or possible it is on FS1R. I never had a chance to see and play with one.

The FS1R has four control knobs on the front which can be programmed to control just about any combination of parameters of the FM-X patch, so at least part of the control you mentioned is covered. I'm sure there aren't anywhere near as many insertion effects to choose from and control. I can live with the difference. You have to use the software editor, though. Front panel control on the FS1R is too difficult to deal with otherwise.

I'm really impressed with the sound quality of the XF, this instrument is stellar! The only thing I have that hasn't been beaten is the VL-70M. My older VL wind controller still has the edge on wind instruments.

Holy sampling Batman! Really? 4,240 views at the time of this writing?

I had a single question as to why Yamaha would stop production on the most popular and powerful workstation made.

There have been a lot of good replies to this question and support that the all-in-one workstation instrument is loved by many.

I can only assume that with 4,240 views, Yamaha should seriously look this over.

Perhaps the Montage (Or if done right, the Motif XF II.) should have incorporated new features, more memory, etc. (many have outlined the possible options in this thread so I'll leave it at that for now) and if someone wanted FM expansion to the Motif, then sell a separate FM expansion module with OS software that works seamlessly with this expansion.

Yes, I love my Motif XF8 and as Bad Mister says, that's a good thing, I'm happy. But as many have pointed out, if someone wants to get in the Motif game, or God forbid something happens to mine or someone else's, eBay is not my favorite option for a replacement.

Long and short of it is, I guess with this many views and replies, there are enough of us out there that like the all-in-one style that the Motif XF8 perfected, that Yamaha should really take a long hard look at this with their next release. Besides, Yamaha put how much time in perfecting the Motif XF? As they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. To coin Bad Mister's phrase, a lot of us "old school" keyboard players like it all in one place, our instrument. Not wired over to computers. Way too distracting.

Lastly, with this next release, if Yamaha takes notice, memory is now cheap. I know the integrated flash is different type of memory than a thumb drive, but if I can have a 256 GB memory stick, I think that we could expect way more than 2 GB (Actually the Montage only has 1.75 GB of flash) of flash RAM in the, hopefully, new Motif XF8 II. 😉

Thank you one and all for your input. Like all of you, I am enjoying what I have, and looking forward to what Yamaha puts out next. And no, a MOXF is not a suitable replacement for a Motif XF8. It just isn't in the same class, it's just cheaper. What do they say? You get what you pay for.

I'm still amazed how the number of views that my thread continues to grow.

Now at nearly 8,000 views! Wow!

I guess there really are a lot of people out there that really believe in the type of synthesizer set up that is offered by the Motif XF.

Since they have been out of production for so long, they are getting harder and harder to find.

The ones you do find on eBay, are starting to show their age by being a bit beaten up, and yet, they are still retaining their high price!

I really do hope that Yamaha pays attention to this and their next "flagship" synthesizer brings more to the table of what the Motif XF is than the Montage.

No doubt Montage is a great instrument, but I hope its successor will fix what Yamaha "guiltily" forgot to implement, such as a bigger FlashRAM area to store samples, a bigger space to house sound libraries and a decent multitrack audio/MIDI sequencer.