I have the Motif XF a good machine, but I think if Yamaha out a update with the new rotary speaker effect it will be nice.

I am pleased that the community continues to discuss this. If Yamaha doesn't receive our feedback, they have nothing to go on from the people "out in the field" that actually use their instruments.
Just yesterday, I was cleaning the basement. I came across a whole box of old "Electronic Musician" magazines from my subscription. Low and behold, the cover story on the November 1988 issue is debating the best synthesizer workstation. The Ensoniq SQ-80 was the winner (Which I did purchase back then and still have. Beautiful instrument.), but Yamaha wasn't even in the running or mentioned in that article. But then again, that was the DX7 (and DX9, DX5, DX11, etc.) heyday. By the way, I did buy and still have a DX7 and TX81Z back then.
Now, Yamaha has to their credit the best "all-in-one" synthesizer workstation ever produced. With other companies, they usually work hard to refine, improve, and expand on this design.
So, where am I going with this. Back in the 80's I was in a synthesizer duo playing clubs when you could actually make a good living out of it working 5 days a week.
Not all musicians are playing in larger groups or are in the headliners playing stadiums.
These days, a majority of the keyboard players playing gigs are (due to the economy) playing solo at restaurants, lounges, retirement homes, etc. When you are gigging by yourself in these situations, you need to have everything right in front of you to keep the flow going. If you have to reference a computer, then the keyboard, and lastly the audience, you will lose the connection to the audience in a hurry.
A pianist does not need a computer. A violinist does not need a computer. The Motif XF series brought us into that situation like a pianist or a violinist where we have an instrument that we could use quickly, efficiently, and beautifully to engage the audience and amaze them.
Many people (including myself and the most recent post from Dick) are concerned about something else. If Yamaha isn't going to listen to us (this thread originally created by me gets a lot of attention in views and posts so it must mean something) and expand on the Motif XF style architecture and continue with the new strategy of the Montage, where are we going to get a new Motif XF if and when we need or want one? What about those that have heard about it and want to get one? Ebay has them on their site from time to time, but what are you going to get? Ebay purchases can be iffy. I don't know about the rest of you, but all of the instruments I have I purchased are new from a music store. I am the original owner of all of my gear. I'm a bit older now and would love to buy a new Motif XF7 so I can save my back from the weight of my glorious Motif XF8, but where can you find a new Motif XF7?
I've looked at and played the MOXF8 many, many times considering it. For me anyway, too much has been stripped from the Motif XF for my taste, but that's just me. Perhaps the MOXF8 works for others. The MOXF8 is a beautiful instrument, but I would severely miss what I have in my Motif XF8.
So, those are my latest thoughts. I guess the most important issue, is the solo gigging musician. Yamaha has forgotten about that group of people. I know, they will say the MOXF8 is the answer, but not for everyone.

I'll jump in, I hope you don't mind if I express my opinion about this topic.

About me:
I own a Montage, I owned a Motif ES and MoX before.
I play in a band professionally, using the Montage as my only keyboard, I work occasionally in a studio by contributing keyboard parts or I record them myself in my homestudio.
So, I guess I have some experience to give my personal view about some of the concerns that were mentioned in those posts above.

First,
the number of views and replies doesn't necessarily indicate that there is a high demand for the Motif XF. It is a general topic and as such, more people read it instead of some very special requests for help or topics you may not be interested.
But lets go straight to the topic here:
I don't really understand what your problem is. I am trying hard, I read every post and still don't get it.
The Motif XF was produced for 6 long years. Its production came to an end. You are not forbidden to continue to use it. So, again, what is your problem actually? Nobody forces you to buy every new model released by a company. That is true for every other thing, be it your cell phone or your car, software or your keyboard.

One of the most often used argument, it lacks a sequencer.
Well, I know we will disagree here, but it has a basic sequencer, probably enough to hold your first idea. For a serious work, you need software anyway. If you collaborate with a studio, they ask you for 44.1kHz/24 bit records. You don't get that out of the Motif from the internal sequencer. You have to record it thru a dedicated soundcard into your computer. From the Montage, you can record the internal sounds directly and digitally (no quality loss, no noise) directly to your computer and you need just one usb cable. On top of that, you can record simultaneously 16 audiotracks at once!
The keyboard sequencer vs. computer daw discussion is at least 20 years old. Personally, I don't understand why would people prefer to edit their midi events on a tiny keyboard display, using cursor buttons and hunt all those parameters from one side of the screen to the other, why would you prefer the crippled presentation of generated midi data in the midi event editor instead of seeing it in all colorful glory on a bigger screen, presented as lines and curves where you can change/edit/delete/copy/correct/exchange all that data within seconds and focus on the music instead of how to copy a pattern 20 times in track 11 and create a hole at measure 2 for a fill-in?
On the montage, you can still record on the keyboard, but the more serious work has to be done where all people do it. End of discussion. Tell me one, just one person who makes radio ready songs on a keyboard and successfully release them to the audience?

Dick in a post above complains about the need to take a computer to a show. No, you don't need to do that. You can create your song at home with the freely provided Cubase AI and send it back to the montage as a finished song and play it in the same way as you would on the Motif.

I guess the most important issue, is the solo gigging musician. Yamaha has forgotten about that group of people.

Sorry but this is where the whining for the sake of whining begins. What makes the Motif XF so special for "solo gigging musicians"??? I really don't get it. A solo gigging musicians probably needs something like the Tyros or now the Genos. Or a Stage Piano. There is nothing in the Motif which would give it any advantage over a Montage for a solo gigging musician. If you need accompaniment, the Motif is not good choice. It was not created with those musicians in mind.

Here are a few thoughts about where I think that the Montage is a better tool for the live and the studio musician compared to the Motif:

1. Montage has 8 (to 16) parts instead of just 4 parts like the Motif in its performance mode. You have more possibilities, especially as a "(solo) gigging musician".

2. If you use up to 8 parts, the switching between performances is seamless. A clear advance to the Motifs performance mode.

3. The Montage has a single mode. The Motif was hopelessly overloaded with different Modes with unneeded separations like a dedicated master mode with a limited 128 user locations, a performance mode with far more user patch memory but limited to just 4 parts, and so on.

4. The Montage has a touch display and a great and fast new user interface. Things can be done really fast, you don't need to press twenty buttons to move the cursor around and between different displays.

5. The Montage gives you visual feedback on your sliders and circled knobs. The circled knobs operate endlessly, so there are no parameter jumps and you can start changing a parameter directly.

6. The Superknob is a great way to change a lot of parameter at once, creating complex soundscapes or for changing complete instrumentations seamlessly live on stage.

7. The Montage has new sounds, new high quality samples but also all those older samples from the Motif XF. You are covered if you want to use your favorite Motif XF patches.

8. The Montage has 1.8 Gb of sample Flash memory. Yes, that is less than what you could have on the Motif XF, but you don't pay extra for it. On the other side, the loading is faster and for live use, it should be really enough, especially if you create your best of instead of loading every library including sounds you probably do not need.

9. As I mentioned above, without additional cost, the Montage gives you the ability to export up to 16 audio channels in the todays studio standard format (44.1/24).

There are probably other things too where the Montage shines, and of course there are also a couple of things where the Montage really sucks (fixed Midi channels), but the arguments that are presented here for a "new" Motif XF, I am pretty much sure that they don't really reflect how the majority of the people use their keyboards these days. I can speak just for myself: I never met a friend who plays keyboards and who would use the internal sequencer for any serious studio work or music production. The last time I did it was around 1991. But that was a time where home computers were nowhere nearly capable to record audio.

Hi Sladjan,

Thank you for taking your time out to give your thoughts as well as all of the others that have joined this thread.

Of course instruments always lack something that the musician is hoping it has. Do I wish the Motif XF had a USB port instead of FW? Of course. I stated that a long time ago and as a programmer, figured that Yamaha could have put out a hardware/software upgrade for that a long time ago.

Do I wish the Motif XF had more than 4 parts in a Performance? Of course, the more the merrier. But then again, Song or Pattern mode can take care of that.

Switching sounds without sounds cutting off? Yes, that is cool about the Montage.

Just a couple of things. I am assuming (a big assumption I know) that you are younger. I am 56 and old school and just like everything to be on the synth. I have been doing that since the 80's when workstations became usable and just love how it evolved in the Motif XF. Now I do agree, that's just me. But to be fair, there are a lot of posts here that agree with that thought. There is something to be said regarding the number of posts and views to this thread that can't be denied or ignored by Yamaha.

Consider yourself lucky that you are able to play as a full-time job and in the studio, most of us don't.

One point you are missing is that these discussions never talked about producing music in a studio. Most musicians only "make it" as far as clubs and lounges. Having a single keyboard with the very useable sequencer that is on the Motif XF is way more than sufficient. Man, if I had this back in the 80's! I know I'm talking about 30 years ago, but the philosophy of the way it was done back then still applies very well today.

I never have said the Montage sucked, and to be honest I do take offense to your using the word "whining". This is a discussion of what the average musician uses, needs, and hopes to see in these instruments. Can we afford to "upgrade" every year? Uhhh, no. I still have all of my 70's and 80's equipment. My trumpet was purchased in 1973 and can still blow glorious riffs!

I'm happy with my Motif XF8. I'm glad you are happy with your Montage. But the people who have posted on this thread are just giving their 2 cents on what direction they would like to see Yamaha go for the average, more common musician. Speaking for myself, I would love to see the cool stuff in the Montage, but would rather see Yamaha carry over the stuff they ripped out. The technology has already been created. An upgraded sequencer (even though I feel the Motif XF's sequencer rocks), keep on-board sampling, etc. All of the lights on the Montage are just more items that can go out and needs servicing. If your touch screen goes out, I'd hate to see that service bill! There is an old phrase, KIS (Keep It Simple). Even the Motif XF is not KIS compared to the old days of patch cords, sliders, no memory, etc. My minimoog needs to be manually changed for every sound. Gasp!

Not only are these instruments used for the average man's gigging in clubs, lounges, retirement homes, nursing homes, churches, etc., they are also used for lectures and demonstrations. Many (if not most) of us can't handle moving a lot of equipment when the Motif XF can do it all by itself.

So please read these posts a bit more carefully. We aren't knocking the Montage (there is a separate section for the Montage anyway, this is the Motif XF section), we are discussing what we love about the Motif XF and what we'd like to see move forward from it into future instruments.

It's inevitable that some people get off track or can actually spout hostile things.

We all love Yamaha products. I've been buying them since the 70's. It's nice that now with the web we can say our 2 cents on how we feel about their evolution.

Would I like to have a Montage? Sure, send one over! Most of us can't afford that, and I would still use my Motif XF8, the Montage would just be an add-on as maybe a Montage 6. But wait, my 56 year old back just couldn't handle all of that. 🙂

Anyway, I do feel (as I have already said), that you got a bit off track and missed the point of this thread.

As always, with whatever everyone has, just make beautiful music. That's what it is all about. Mozart made some of the most beautiful music ever, and he only had a forerunner to the piano and his incredible brain! Now, on to the show! Let's help this world sound just a bit more beautiful with music.

Hi Jim,

Jim wrote:
Do I wish the Motif XF had more than 4 parts in a Performance? Of course, the more the merrier. But then again, Song or Pattern mode can take care of that.

Yes, but than you fill up the the song and pattern memory with something it was not created for in first place. I call this very clear a work around. It works, but it also takes something away and it makes your life more difficult especially since you miss the sequencer so much. But later on that.

Jim wrote:Just a couple of things. I am assuming (a big assumption I know) that you are younger. I am 56 and old school and just like everything to be on the synth.

Yes, I am a little bit younger than you (45). You know, we all like something or miss something on our keyboards. But again. There IS a sequencer on the Montage. You MAY use it for realizing a structure of your song, for focusing on music instead of editing. As soon as you have to deal with details, you can transfer it to cubase or anything else, work on details in a graphic, nice, colorful, easy to understand environment and SEND IT BACK to the Montage. Being old school must not be an excuse. What choice does an old school drummer, guitar/bass player, sax/trumpet/flute player has? There is not everything on the piano/hammond/sax/trumpet/flute. You need a computer and a sequencer on it.

Jim wrote:But to be fair, there are a lot of posts here that agree with that thought. There is something to be said regarding the number of posts and views to this thread that can't be denied or ignored by Yamaha.

I certainly can't speak for Yamaha. But I absolutely believe them when they say that almost nobody says that they work on the internal sequencer whenever they have or had a workshop for their top of the line keyboard/workstation. Just look how other companies work:
Korg didn't update the sequencer in the Kronos up to the level of its predecessor M3. The demand is obviously to low.
Roland is out of the game in this regard. Their last flagship, the Fantom G had a great sequencer with 24 audiotracks and 128 miditracks. They don't sell a flagship workstation any more.
Kurzweil doesn't update its sequencer. If they use the old display like of the size you see on an MoXF, they put the sequencer in because the seq UI is adapted to that size. On their new flagship model, the Forte, there is no sequencer. Ensoniq is history, Alesis is history.

Jim wrote:Consider yourself lucky that you are able to play as a full-time job and in the studio, most of us don't.

No, I don't do it full time, but I do it professionally. I can handle two jobs at the same time. 😉

Jim wrote:Most musicians only "make it" as far as clubs and lounges. Having a single keyboard with the very useable sequencer that is on the Motif XF is way more than sufficient. Man, if I had this back in the 80's! I know I'm talking about 30 years ago, but the philosophy of the way it was done back then still applies very well today.

Two things:
playing in clubs and lounges doesn't mean that a sequencer is a must. Remember what I said in my previous post. A keyboard like a Tyros or similar may be a better choice. Second, as I already said: there is a sequencer on the Montage. Do your fine tune at home on a computer and send the song back to the Montage. It will play just like created and played on a Motif. I am writing right now on a 3 years old Mac Book Air. It is a great laptop, very light, has a long battery life, just one single usb cable is needed to hook it up to my Montage and do the fine tune of a song on a nice graphic user interface. Remember, as a Drum or Guitar player you don't even have a choice. A computer is a must. Yes, I understood, you like to do it all on the keyboard. But you are really a minority. And you are one for at least twenty years.

Jim wrote:I never have said the Montage sucked, and to be honest I do take offense to your using the word "whining".

You didn't say that the Montage sucks, but you are trying to find arguments against it which are really an exaggeration. Even in this post (later). It's not a big deal but saying that Yamaha neglects the solo gigging musician really doesn't make any sense.

Jim wrote:This is a discussion of what the average musician uses, needs, and hopes to see in these instruments.

Yes, and we all think that our personal desire represents the average musician. In the same way I'm sharing my thoughts.

Jim wrote:The technology has already been created. An upgraded sequencer (even though I feel the Motif XF's sequencer rocks)

I'm not a programmer and I can't speak here argumented, but maybe they had to rewrite everything from scratch because of using a new chip or OS shell for the Montage, so they abandoned to rewrite the sequencer in its full functionality because not many musicians use it anyway. Just guessing, I could also be completely wrong.

Jim wrote:keep on-board sampling, etc.

I owned an Akai S2000 sampler sometimes at the end of the nineties and learned to sample on that machine. In the meantime I have created gigabytes and gigabytes of samples and multisamples for my own keyboards. Believe me, on none of the Motif it was possible to create serious and fully usable multisamples which are called waveform in Yamaha terminology. All the motifs lacked the loop crossfade function. This function flattens the loop points and eliminates clicks created on loop points. Those clips appear if the loop start and loop end points do not match very well. And they do not match on 99% of samples of acoustic instruments. So, the sampling value of the Motif is in just sampling one shoot samples and here and there some drum loops.
Take this as my personal opinion, but again, I really fail to understand why would one punish himself with working on sampling material on a tiny screen with limited file handling abilities, without precise visual feedback and with a limited set of tools instead of using dedicated applications on a computer. It really is a punishment and being old school is not really an excuse for doing that to yourself. You could use the time you save by sampling on a computer for working more on your music skills or just hang out with our family instead of processing samples on a tiny display with a low resolution. Just my 2 cents on this.

Jim wrote:All of the lights on the Montage are just more items that can go out and needs servicing.

See, this is a perfect example where I think that (unnecessary) whining starts.
You say you have nothing against the Montage. So, why do you search for potential problems on it? You can complain in absolutely the same way if you put your Motif XF next to your DX7. The first thing that happened to me in the early nineties when I used a keyboard sequencer was that the certain buttons ceased to function because I pushed them very often. I had to repair the keyboard, exchange the contacts under the buttons, and I had to do this more than once. It certainly wouldn't happen if I had used a computer.

Jim wrote:If your touch screen goes out, I'd hate to see that service bill! There is an old phrase, KIS (Keep It Simple).

Touchscreen technology is not new. You can by a Korg Trinity, one of the first keyboards using a touch screen and it still works. Touch screens are used in so many devices these days, I really wouldn't make an argument with them.

Jim wrote:Not only are these instruments used for the average man's gigging in clubs, lounges, retirement homes, nursing homes, churches, etc., they are also used for lectures and demonstrations. Many (if not most) of us can't handle moving a lot of equipment when the Motif XF can do it all by itself.

One single laptop and one single usb cable weight less than my sustain, switch and expression pedal which I use on the Montage. Not to mention monitors or a PA. Believe me. But again, the Montage has a sequencer, you can play songs from it in your club, lounge, retirement home, nursing home, church and in any other place given there is some current available.

Jim wrote:So please read these posts a bit more carefully. We aren't knocking the Montage (there is a separate section for the Montage anyway, this is the Motif XF section), we are discussing what we love about the Motif XF and what we'd like to see move forward from it into future instruments.

Yes, I read carefully and you are trying to knock the Montage with some invalid arguments. But I don't mind, we are just discussing. I know enough about the Motif XF to be able to discuss it too.

Jim wrote:Anyway, I do feel (as I have already said), that you got a bit off track and missed the point of this thread.

Jim, it is a good question who is a little bit off track here. You with your statements without a backup, like how most keyboard players perform these days, or maybe Yamaha who makes a market research or probably has a pretty much good feedback about how most people use their Motifs. Speaking generally, if sequencer users on a Yamaha keyboard are a significant minority, I'd rather see the engineers focusing on how to make those parts working better, which are used by the majority, instead of leaving them in the state they are and "wasting" their time on creating something almost nobody uses.
And I'm not pretending that my view is in any way better than yours. I understand what this topic is about, I jumped in at a point where the arguments hear - I guess - really don't reflect neither the so called solo gigging musician, nor the majority or the average keyboard player. And even that should be no reason to continue this discussion and exchange our views and opinions.

Sladjan,

This thread has been going on for over a year and a half.

I wrote it for people to write their opinions on the direction Yamaha took, their views, and their feelings regarding this subject.

I sense a bit of aggression in your posts and you came in extremely late in this discussion. I find some of your comments extremely unproductive but simply an attack.

Writing and performing great music is the most important thing.

I don't care if a musician uses a Kazoo, a comb with paper on it, spoons, a plastic bucket, a traditional instrument, or one of Yamaha's creations.

This thread is simply for Motif XF users to get their feelings out on what has proved to be one of the most successful synthesizer that Yamaha has ever produced, hence its longevity and the passion people have regarding these posts.

So you made your statement. You are happy with your Montage. We are happy with our Motifs. It's good everyone is happy. There's nothing wrong with people who are happy and passionate about their instrument to state their views to help Yamaha hear their thoughts. That is partly what this forum is about. Of course the other part of this forum is for educational reason regarding legitimate questions regarding how to do something.

And I will say, when someone uses language like "whining" when writing to someone, I lose interest in that person real fast. That doesn't bring a bee to honey, it most certainly is vinegar.

So once again, let's all just bring some beautiful music into this world with whatever you use to do that with.

Jim,
a few things in first place:

It doesn't matter whether I'm an early bird or "extremely late" to the show. It is my right to express my opinion here, whether you like it or not. My intention is not to bring you to the honey nor to the vinegar. I have read this topic at some time and I see that you use the number of views as an argument for your point. You are wrong. Just because 9000 people have read this topic doesn't mean that 9000 people agree with you. It simply means that 9000 have read this topic. No more, no less. There are 36 entries so far, take from everybody who posted and agreed with you one voice and you have about 10-15 voices in 18 months.

I tried to explain to you that your arguments are sometimes simply wrong, you are telling wrong facts and you exaggerate here and there. And no, I'm not aggressive just because I think what I think about your statements.

Here an example what you posted just before I wrote my first post here:

A pianist does not need a computer. A violinist does not need a computer. The Motif XF series brought us into that situation like a pianist or a violinist where we have an instrument that we could use quickly, efficiently, and beautifully to engage the audience and amaze them.

See, all this show here is - more or less - about the sequencer on the Motif. And then you compare the Motif XF with a piano or with a violin.
Let me ask you: which part of the piano or the violin is capable to record and reproduce 16 tracks of music???????
Which part of the piano or violin let you edit the sound, add effects?

I could go on because the rest of that post is equally out of the focus and it becomes more and more unclear what you actually want?

The Motif XF is history. I see people playing a Korg M1 which is now almost 30 years old. If you take care about your instrument, you will probably be able to use it at least until, let's say 2047.
Are you OK with that?

Have a nice day and make some great music with your Motif XF.

I'm not going to continue to "argue" with the previous poster, but I did encounter something today that I do hope that Yamaha pays attention to.
While the Montage is a very nice instrument, I was told today from one of the biggest music chains in the U.S. that they have been receiving a constant stream of complaints in the direction Yamaha made with the Montage since it is a very different animal than the Motif.
This person actually told me that people looking for "Motif-like" instruments are now moving over to Korg, Roland and Kurzweil.
I really find this sad because as I have stated many times in this thread, I have been using and believe in Yamaha products since the 70's.
Hopefully Yamaha will take notice and their next go-around will reflect some of the suggestions and complaints the general public has been voicing.
It's all about how musical we can make these instruments, not how much tech we can throw in them.
I felt better after that phone call because I see it is not just me that is old school and likes all of the components the Motif XF offers all in one box, there are many, many people who do, as well as of this writing there has been an incredible amount of views to this thread, now almost 12,000. No other topic on this website has that many views. It must mean something.
All in all, keep on creating beautiful music in whatever way you do. It makes the world sound better.

FWIW, I think the Motif XF really achieved a high point in musical keyboard workstation design and implementation. The way the Performances, Patterns, Songs and sequencer work together on the Motif to create and allow an often seamless and efficient workflow represents a state-of-the-art (circa 2014, with the last OS update) that has yet to be surpassed.

The MOTIF XS/XF control surface was also superb in the number of buttons knobs and sliders provided, along with the Remote Mode. (As an example of what this allowed, consider the *amazing* KARMA Motif software written by Stephen Kay.)

While I much respect the Montage, as an advanced and expressive synth, with all of it's modulation control etc., it is not a compositional workstation in the way that the Motif series was - and the utility of that kind of workstation has in no way become irrelevant, IMO.

The idea to "take the great thing that exists and continue to enhance and perfect it going forward" is a perfectly worthy idea. I could easily imagine a "next generation" Motif (Motif NG), and list out maybe a dozen or more specific enhancements that would make "the best" better still in a new iteration.

Why not go there?

It seems that somebody must believe that it wouldn't sell with new record volume, or wouldn't offer a high enough margin to meet a corporate ROI goal, and that failure in these respects would make it not worth doing.

But surely a Motif NG *would* sell, and would turn a profit, so long as it was everything the Motif XF was, and then MORE!, and delivered at a similar price point to the Motif XF.

Have we really reached the point where it is impossible to deliver a next generation that is an improvement (hardware-wise) at the same price-point as the prior generation? I have a hard time believing that, as things like Flash memory, color touch displays, basic button/pad technology etc. are improved in quality and lower in price than 5 years ago.

And of course, software can *always* be advanced in total capability by innovative specifiers, bright designers and superior implementors.

A Motif NG would not cannibalize the market for the Montage. They are too different. It's valid for the Montage to be exactly what it is, and what it will become.

But it would also be valid for the Motif series to be extrapolated into the future because there is really nothing else quite like it. I hope Yamaha will (re)consider the idea of a Motif NG (before all the expertise to do it has relocated, retired, or died!).

Peace.

Since this thread has been started up again I might as well add my two cents. I know I am in the minority, but I am one of those people who bought the motif so that I wouldn’t have to use a computer.I like buttons Over a mouse or touchscreen. Just do. So for me the montage is not all that appealing. If Yamaha put out a montage with the song and pattern mode from the motif now that would Be something.

As a performance keyboard , I could see the montage being a really exciting instrument, but as a studio instrument I don’t really see a selling point. They go for over $4000 am I correct? For what? A lot of sound generating power. But I can buy a DAW, tons of virtual instruments, A control Surface and still have money left over for Oh say, a Rackmount wave table synthesizer, and not spend $4000. The economics just Don’t work at least Not for me.

Finally I’d like to say something about Yamaha’s support of discontinued products. When I went looking To buy the FireWire expansion card, I discovered Yamaha doesn’t make it anymore. I spent about a month scouring the Internet for anything, Used, whatever. There was nothing available. Finally one turned up on eBay and I paid $100 over List price to get it. Definitely left a bad taste in my mouth.

Well I have to join the bandwagon here, and I don't even own a Yamaha keyboard. I bought my Korg Triton Extreme workstation new back in the day and it still works great, and it sounds okay. But I would like better sounds, especially the built-in pianos, and a better workflow for song composition and performance, as the later Yamaha Motif product line provides. I do not want to hook up a computer or a tablet or an I-anything to be able to make full use of its features. I want to be able to sequence a song using only the keyboard and see all the tracks in 1 big view with the note data on it scrolling by as it's playing, even if it's just little pixels (Trackview would work fine). And I want to be able to save it not only as MIDI file but also as a WAV audio file to USB drive (something MOXF and MODX cannot do). These "wants" I don't think are extraordinary requests. They are basic workstation functions, and the Motif XF implemented them well. It's a shame that it's been discontinued - I'm very leary of purchasing a used keyboard that is no longer supported - not so much because of lack of software updates - but for lack of technical/hardware support.