Synth Forum

Notifications
Clear all

How to record vocals without delay while listening to reverb of the DAW: NOT recording reverb.

6 Posts
2 Users
0 Likes
3,110 Views
Posts: 0
Active Member
Topic starter
 

Hi Bad Mr and others. Long time no seen. 🙂

I am focusing on optimizing my vocal recordings. Hence I have this setup:

1) I apply some compression already to the vocals at the MOXF8 stage. But no reverb. It's turned off.
2) I want to record the DRY vocals. However I wish to sing while listening to some reverb of the DAW: Cubase 9.5 (I was going to update it to 10 but there was some delay)
SO what I have done is to put on some headphones connected to the MOXF, then in the DAW I record the Mic/vocal track like this:

a) I have turned off the direct output to monitors/headphones on the MOXF. Thus the signal has to go through the DAw before being heard.
b) I have turned the Monitor button (megaphone icon) to on for the track.
c) I have applied some reverb as an insert effect by clicking the E button for the track. SO I use the Cubase reverb. THe reverb of the insert effect on the MOXF is set to Thru (only option if no selection).
d) I listen to my singing and the backing track in CUbase with some semi open headphones. I wonder if they ought to be closed and then apply the reverb, THUS COMPENSATING FOR THE LACK OF ECHO PERTAINING TO CLOSED BACK HEADPHONES. It is very unnatural for me to sing in a closed room, although I discovered I was pressured to improve my voice under bad unnatural conditions, such as the restraints imposed by lack of quality (not the best headphones etc.).
e) I have turned up the DAW gain on the MOXF of course. If not I would not be able to hear myself singing or the backing track for that sake. Normally I beliee there would be an echo due to hearing both the DAW in the headphones (which are plugged into the MOXF not the PC) as well as hearing the direct to headphones/loudspeakers signal. But I turned the direct to monitor off as said.

SO my question at this point is this: I hear some echo but I assume it owes to the headphones being semi open so I hear my voice twice (well also through the skull of course) and due to there being some delay since my singing has to pass through the moxf then to the DAw then back to the moxf and into my headphones.

HOW CAN I AVOID THE DELAY? My own 10 cents are to use some closed back headphones and/or to diminish the delay, perhaps by listening to my singing directly from the pc, but I think it is not possible (easily at least) since now the sound card of the MOXF is activated.

PLease help, thank you
S

 
Posted : 03/11/2019 10:44 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

You can monitor yourself singing without recording the reverb, by setting up the Reverb in the DAW as an “Effect Track”
The Reverb will be slightly latent, but this is usually fine because in the real world this time delay becomes part of the distance between the source and the reflective surfaces.

You can setup to monitor yourself through the DAW returning the Reverb signal applied in Cubase.

The amount of reverb is subjective... you can use as much as you desire (it is being applied post, or after, the recorded signal... so you are only ‘monitoring’ the reverb, not recording it). Your recorded signal is ‘dry’.

Latency is the time between ‘real-time’ (direct) and the time it takes the computer to receive, process, and output the the arriving signal.

When using the MOXF as you audio interface you have an option for Direct Monitor and you have a DAW Return.
The Direct Monitor signal will be without Reverb
The DAW Return signal will have the Reverb

You want to hear yourself direct, so direct monitor should be On
You want to hear yourself with Reverb, so you will mix in the amount with the DAW LEVEL slider

Also returning via the DAW LEVEL are the tracks you are overdubbing the vocal to... you will need to set a balance between the returning audio (including you reverb) and your voice “direct”.

 
Posted : 04/11/2019 3:46 pm
Posts: 0
Active Member
Topic starter
 

As mentioned i have turned of DIrect Monitoring ON THE MOXF8 since I want to hear alone the sound from the DAW, in order to not have to outputs. THat is why I believe that the echo is due to me hearing the DAW output with some effect applied to the VOcals track, WHILE also hearing my voice directly in my ears (not from the direct to monitor output from the MOXF).

I hope you get what I mean.

 
Posted : 07/11/2019 11:42 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

Turning Direct Monitor = On is how you hear what the MOXF is sending to the DAW... this includes your vocal mic, “live”... and of course, the MOXF synthesizer.

The DAW LEVEL slider is how you hear what is coming in from Cubase, as audio. This includes the Cubase metronome, any Audio Tracks you have recorded, the output of the Effect Track, and you have the option of hearing the vocal you are recording... We don’t call this “the mic” because you are hearing the “recording” of the mic (yes, this is the ‘latent’ signal, the signal the computer has processed)... it will be several milliseconds behind the Direct Monitor signal which is listening “live” to the mic.

You will notice this doubling if you choose to monitor both audio signal paths.
To be clear, by wanting to hear reverberation, but not record it, you are opting to hear both audio signal paths.

You can Mute the Audio Track during the recording, thus eliminating the latent signal being in your headphones... but gone with it is the reverberation (that you are not recording). You must mix in just enough of this signal to give you the reverb but not enough to throw your timing off. Hopefully, your latency measures in the single digit millisecond range. The reverb will be lower in volume than your direct signal.

This “post” signal, mixed together with the direct signal you are monitoring, does not harm you recording. This doubling is not recorded, it appears only as a monitoring issue.

I must mention this (forgive me) but you should turn your monitor speakers completely down or Off. It is a very common home studio mistake to leave the monitor speakers active. If you have an open mic, it must be completely isolated from the monitor speakers, otherwise your recording WILL suffer. You will know immediately because it will have reverb and a weird quality.

Hope that helps.

 
Posted : 07/11/2019 7:14 pm
Posts: 0
Active Member
Topic starter
 

If You still are interested in helping, I advice You to provide me with a solution to that spamming issue since there is nothing disturbing or provocatory at all in what I wrote and I have minimalized capital letters, although I only use them for ease of understanding and t emphasize certain important words. How come this is so extremely difficult? Without being able to write you then I have to search elsewhere for help. I write you again since I don't find common ground for understanding regarding the help you provided. I think we might be talking past each other at some advanced level.

 
Posted : 20/11/2019 9:29 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

If you post, then go back to edit or add more data, if you don’t make enough changes it (apparently) thinks you are spam. However, if you make enough changes to the original post - it goes ahead and let’s you. I don’t know what that threshold is... but hopefully that helps.

 
Posted : 20/11/2019 10:51 am
Share:

© 2024 Yamaha Corporation of America and Yamaha Corporation. All rights reserved.    Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Contact Us