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MOXF – manually using SONG SCENES during live Performance

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 Aldo
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Hello Bad Mister,
I have a few questions about using SONG SCENES during Live performances. (I am not going to use any feature related to automatic sequencing/ pattern/ tempo etc…the purpose is just to seamlessly & quickly switch among voice combinations. BTW I am already using the Voice Mixing program switching [1…16 channels] – just trying to understand if Scenes can provide something more powerful).
Looking to the MOXF reference manual I have tried to “Store” the SCENES by simultaneously pressing e.g. [STORE] + [SCN1]. But it seems that nothing of my intended scene is actually stored at SCN1 location, and when trying to recall the scene with [SCN1], nothing is recalled. Same for any other [SCNx]. (Maybe I am trying to do this starting from the wrong menu place?)
QUESTION 1 = is it possible, and how, to store/ recall scenes to support a purely manual operation, i.e. switching among predefined scenes with a fingertip, when needed during live performance?
QUESTION 2 = does scene switching support the same seamless sound transition of Voice Mixing switch (i.e. not cutting the tail of sounds played in the former scene, after switching to a new scene)?
QUESTION 3 (just in case…) are you aware of any external device, ideally foot-controllable, that can send signals to the MOXF to switch among Scenes?
Thanks a lot in advance for your help,
Regards,
Aldo

 
Posted : 26/06/2019 5:05 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

The short answer is, no, you probably will not find SCENE memory useful for what you are thinking... it is for quick changes but not for seamless changes. It is “snapshot” memory

To understand the Scene you have to understand where it comes from and what it is designed to do. It is a function of the MOXF’s built-in digital mixer, the Sequencer and the Synthesizer Tone Generator.

A Scene is a stored set of MIXING and SEQUENCER settings. This term comes to us from the Yamaha digital mixers and hard disk recorders, where a "snapshot" of settings can be recalled at any time either manually or via automation. It is very much like recalling a pre-set set of mix parameter settings... same as a Program Change event would recall a set of synth parameter setting, except this recalls sequencer mix settings. Imagine being able to recall all fader settings, all pan positions, etc., instantaneously. The MOXF allows six such snapshots to be taken and then recalled at the press of a button.

The SCENE is stored to the Sub-Function buttons [SF1]-[SF6] in a simple gesture: hold down [STORE] + [SFx] to take the 'snapshot'. You will find these SCENES in SONG mode. They can be a very useful part of your musical composition construction.

SONG SCENE parameters memorized per snapshot in the MOXF:

• Tempo: The current tempo as shown on the main screen
• Transpose: The Transpose as shown on the main screen – which will transpose all PARTS except those containing a Drum Kit. Drum Kit tracks are not transposed as this would cause drum sounds to be different
• Play Effect: Play FX include quantize, swing quantize, Note Shift, Clock Shift, etc.
• Volume (cc007): Fader settings for all 16 PARTS
• Pan (cc010) :The current pan position is documented for all 16 PARTS
• Reverb Send (cc091): Send amount settings for each of the 16 PARTS
• Chorus Send (cc093):Send amount settings for each of the 16 PARTS
• Filter Cutoff Frequency (cc074): settings for each of the 16 PARTS
• Filter Resonance (cc071): settings for each of the 16 PARTS
• AEG Attack (cc073): settings for each of the 16 PARTS
• AEG Release (cc072): settings for each of the 16 PARTS
Additionally, a SCENE snapshot will remember the current Track Mute status.*

The MOXF Song Sequencer has 16 MIDI Tracks, one for each Part to have a MIDI Channel, but it also has a Tempo Track, and it has a Scene Track to automate Scene recalls.

*Track Mute status is simply whether a track is set to output its MIDI data or not. To the right of the sixteen track buttons on the MOXF front panel you will find a dedicated [MUTE] button. When it is illuminated the 16 Track LEDS will show the current status of the corresponding Track. If a Track LED is lit, then it is audible, if a Track LED is off, then the track is "muted". This means the track will no longer send data to the internal or any connected external tone generator. You can at any time manually Mute Tracks but you can also automate this procedure within the linear timeline of the sequencer (that is, either in a PATTERN CHAIN or in SONG mode). There is a dedicated event called a TRACK MUTE Event – this is independent of the SCENE.

QUESTION 1 = is it possible, and how, to store/ recall scenes to support a purely manual operation, i.e. switching among predefined scenes with a fingertip, when needed during live performance?

See Page 98 of the MOXF6/MOXF8 Reference Manual for exact details of registering and recalling Song Scenes.

QUESTION 2 = does scene switching support the same seamless sound transition of Voice Mixing switch (i.e. not cutting the tail of sounds played in the former scene, after switching to a new scene)?

No, not at all.

QUESTION 3 (just in case…) are you aware of any external device, ideally foot-controllable, that can send signals to the MOXF to switch among Scenes?

 
Posted : 26/06/2019 6:17 pm
 Aldo
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Topic starter
 

Thx Bad Mister, the answer was clear and exhaustive as usual - though in this case Song Scenes cannot support my hopes 😉
just to double check I have got correctly this non-seamless behavior of the Scenes:
* this means that even when Scenes are switched by "Scene Change events" placed in the Scene Track, the sound transition won't be seamless, correct? Then --> when conceiving the whole Song, it is up to you as an arranger to consider placing scene changes in such a way (e.g. in a silence point) to avoid or minimize the effect of abrupt sound termination, correct?
* even if we were to use the Scene Switch just to MUTE/UNMUTE Tracks (= non affecting any other of the plenty of controllable parameters you mentioned) I guess it would result anyway in sound cutting, because the "snapshot" doesn't care what you are actually changing in the new scene, be it only track muting and/or anything else--- is my guess correct?

Making a last attempt in another direction... let's forget Song Scenes for a while and go back to the Voice Mixing with its seamless sound transition: What I already do in a Song Voice Mixing is to make a "partition" the 16 channels into some three or four "groups", to create some sort of different "pseudo-scenes": e.g. grouping slots 1...5 mapped on channel 1, slots 6..8 mapped on channel 8; by manually clicking "1" or "8" it is possible to seamlessly switch to an entirely independent set of voices... this is already great, but there is a limitation that I would like to overcome, if possible: in case I need the SAME voice in the group (1...5) and in the group (6..8), I have to "spend" 2 slots to have the same voice heard in different groups. And, in some variegate songs, it is easy to hit the limit of 16 slots to build the desired groups.
Having read about the Track Mute/Unmute feature, I was wondering whether is it possible to achieve the following: defining my desired "groups" or "pseudo-scenes" as a set of different Mute/Unmute combinations. Each combination might rely on up to 16 voices of the Mixing, picking (=unmuting) only the ones suitable to get the desired sound set. This way, the Voice Mixing might be exploited at a higher level. This is the idea; then...is it feasible in some way?
1. is there any native way in MOXF to accomplish this? or,
2. would it make sense to have an external midi controller, sending MIDI information to MOXF so that, given an active Voice Mixing, any wished subset of the 16 tracks would be muted/unmuted in a single shot via Midi controls?

Again thx a lot for your indications
best regards
Aldo

 
Posted : 27/06/2019 10:08 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

* this means that even when Scenes are switched by "Scene Change events" placed in the Scene Track, the sound transition won't be seamless, correct? Then --> when conceiving the whole Song, it is up to you as an arranger to consider placing scene changes in such a way (e.g. in a silence point) to avoid or minimize the effect of abrupt sound termination, correct?

You say that like there is something wrong with Scenes. There is nothing wrong with Scenes - you’ve simply selected poorly.

What’s wrong would be attempting to use a “light switch” that clicks on and off when what you need is to overlap sounds. The Scene is useful in the other 99 out of 100 transitions where the musician puts the flute down before they start playing the saxophone!
Scene changes are useful when you move between Sections of a Song where no overlap is needed. In classical music called “Movements”. There is no overlap when using a MUTE (the Scene function that disconnects or connects a Part to the audio output)... when you mute a channel on a mixer, the moment you press the button Audio is cut. When you unmute a channel on a mixer the Audio is allowed to pass. It is an immediate transition, not a seamless transition.

A Scene can also transition sounds by manipulating Volume level recall. But again, this does not allow overlap, as the volume immediately jumps to the stored value... be it 0 or a particular positive value. “Snapshot” memory.

Choosing a Scene, which uses Mute/unMute or uses Volume output level to determine what is sounding would be a poor choice on your part if what you want to accomplish is the flute player holding a last note while starting the next note on the saxophone! In order for Scenes to work with smooth (seamless) transitions is if it worked on the Transmitting end of the signal flow, not the Receiving end (see below)...

Making a last attempt in another direction... let's forget Song Scenes for a while and go back to the Voice Mixing with its seamless sound transition: What I already do in a Song Voice Mixing is to make a "partition" the 16 channels into some three or four "groups", to create some sort of different "pseudo-scenes": e.g. grouping slots 1...5 mapped on channel 1, slots 6..8 mapped on channel 8; by manually clicking "1" or "8" it is possible to seamlessly switch to an entirely independent set of voices... this is already great, but there is a limitation that I would like to overcome, if possible: in case I need the SAME voice in the group (1...5) and in the group (6..8), I have to "spend" 2 slots to have the same voice heard in different groups. And, in some variegate songs, it is easy to hit the limit of 16 slots to build the desired groups.
Having read about the Track Mute/Unmute feature, I was wondering whether is it possible to achieve the following: defining my desired "groups" or "pseudo-scenes" as a set of different Mute/Unmute combinations. Each combination might rely on up to 16 voices of the Mixing, picking (=unmuting) only the ones suitable to get the desired sound set. This way, the Voice Mixing might be exploited at a higher level. This is the idea; then...is it feasible in some way?
1. is there any native way in MOXF to accomplish this? or,
2. would it make sense to have an external midi controller, sending MIDI information to MOXF so that, given an active Voice Mixing, any wished subset of the 16 tracks would be muted/unmuted in a single shot via Midi controls?

Yes you do have to “”spend” 2 slots to have the same Part heard in different groups”. Well, of course, you do. You are now, however, on the right track...

What you want to do is realize why the pressing of the Select buttons works to do the seamless transitions between Part groups — it’s because you are changing the Transmit Channel of the Keyboard.

Think KX88 (MIDI Keyboard controller) —> QX1 Sequencer —> TX816 Tone Generator —> Audio Output.
The Keyboard *transmits*; the Sequencer *transmits*; the Synth Tone Generator is the receiving device.

Which end of the chain is Audio Mutes?
Which end of the chain is Volume Change?
The final stage... the receiving device. Transitions here are going to be audible (sound cuts off).

It’s the Sequencer in the example above that redirects the Keyboard to a specific Tone Generator Part
Smooth transitions can be made from one of the two transmitting devices (Keyboard, Sequencer), not at the target receiving device... it’s too late by then.

You don’t need an external keyboard, although that is the correct thinking. Use the MOXF’s MASTER mode to address your Mixing setups. If I understand your example: You have Parts 1-5 on MIDI CHANNEL 1 and Parts 6-8 on MIDI CHANNEL 8

Go to [MASTER]
Press [JOB]
Press [F1] INIT
Press [ENTER] to execute
Return to the main “Initialized Master” screen

Press [F2] MEMORY
Link the Master with your Mixing setup via the Mode and Memory parameters
Set “Mode” = SONG
Set the “Memory” = the Song Name
Press [F1] ZONE SWITCH
Set the Zone Switch = On
Set the “ZoneKnob” = your preference

Press [EDIT]
Press [1] to view Zone 1 parameters
You will use Zones 1 and 2 to transmit to your Internal Mixing
At [F1] TRANS
Set Zone 1 to Transmit on Channel 1
Set Zone 2 to Transmit on Channel 8
SET Zone 3 and 4 as you desire (but use unique numbers)

[STORE] your Master Program
On the Main ZONE screen press the [PERFORMANCE CONTROL] button.
[Performance Control] works in MASTER mode so that numbered buttons [1]-[4] turn On/Off INTERNAL Zones 1-4, respectively, and numbered buttons [9]-[12] turn On/Off EXTERNAL Zones [1]-[4]

Now you can use buttons [1]-[4] to turn the four Internal Zones On and Off as you require.
Yes, you have two more Zones you can setup.

When PERFORMANCE CONTROL [1] is lit and you are in Master mode, you are transmitting to all the MIXING Parts assigned to Channel 1
When [2] is lit, you are transmitting to all MIXING Parts assigned to Channel 8

Yes you can overlap... again we are using a *Transmit* function (not a *Receive* Function) so you can proceed without cutting off the sound when you change.

Yes, you have two more Zones you can setup.
When you are in Master Edit, press [COMMON]
There is a way to “Get Name” so the name of the Song is adopted to the MASTER program
[STORE] your Master.

Tip: when you need to make changes to the Song Mixing, you must go to [SONG] mode and then press [MIXING] to Edit, this temporarily exits the Master mode. Make your changes, STORE the changes, then return to Master mode.

Hope that helps.

 
Posted : 27/06/2019 10:30 am
 Aldo
Posts: 0
New Member
Topic starter
 

Wow... a whole new world is being opened for me with the interactions between Master & Song Mode... I definitely will try & check these indications, thanks a lot!

Regarding Song Scenes don't take me wrong, I was not blaming the Song Scenes FEATURE as such, just asking a confirmation in a couple of cases that expecting seamless sound transition was not the right EXPECTATION. Furthermore your practical example "put down the flute before picking a sax" is quite intuitive about how to exploit the Scenes.

...time to study Master mode then 🙂

best regards,
Aldo

 
Posted : 27/06/2019 2:47 pm
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