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MX61 B.O.M.B. Question (continued)

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 Ol
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I'm thinking of downloading BOMB, but before I do, let's say I have eight performances created, and my Performance 01 is split organ/piano. Now I'm blown away by the organ that's part of a BOMB performance and want to use it in Performance 01. I guess I'd need to load that BOMB performance in 09 (e.g.), and then use it to recreate what I have as Performance 01, and then store Performance 09 in 01, correct? Or can I just copy the organ from 09 over the organ in 01? Thanks!

 
Posted : 14/11/2015 9:13 pm
Bad Mister
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Before loading any data into your MX instrument, make sure you make a BACK UP file that backs up your custom work. If you SAVE an ALL data file, this ensures that all user custom data is stored in that file.

When you want to load data you have options. If you select the LOAD TYPE = ALL then all of the user data in the MX will be overwritten by the file you load.
However, you can select LOAD TYPE = PERFORMANCE and then you can select individual PERFORMANCES to load from within that file.

So make a Backup ALL data file of your current data.
Load the MX B.O.M.B. data as an ALL Data file
Then restore the individual PERFORMANCEs you like from your back up file using LOAD TYPE = Performance.
Make sense?

 
Posted : 15/11/2015 6:28 am
 Ol
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Yep, all makes perfect sense, and definitely the plan -- thanks.

And once I've done all that, could I copy the Part-1 voice from a BOMB performance to one of my custom performances, or would I need to recreate my custom performance based on the BOMB performance? I'm guessing the latter...

 
Posted : 15/11/2015 5:00 pm
 Ol
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Think I may have answered my own question here... got remember to check the manual.

"MX Quick Guide (p.33): Storing a Voice (Voice Store)
The edited Voice parameters can be stored as a User Voice separately from a Performance. Moreover, these stored User Voices can be assigned to a different Part or Performance."

So... I assume would load the BOMB organ performance of interest in an unused performance number; store the organ voice to a User Voice; then copy that user voice to my custom performance.

If there's another (better) way, please let me know -- thanks!
Ol' Will

 
Posted : 16/11/2015 1:10 pm
 Ol
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Okay, also got to remember to expand my forum searches... Many thanks to Bad Mister for the best explanation I have found so far of what B.O.M.B. is (and is not):

Since there is no way to add new Waveforms and Samples to an MX49/MX61, any "new" anything for the instrument will be a result of programming the already built-in sounds (WAVE ROM)... The Best of Motif Bank... Is mainly single Part (1Voice) Performances that shows the MX off from the point of view of a library of bread and butter sounds that have made the Motif-series the world's best selling professional production synthesizer. Rather than the factory bank which shows the MX from the view point of what you can do with combining two Parts, plus a drum groove and a couple of arpeggiators. For those looking to use the MX as a sound module for multi-track sequencing will find this bank very useful; and of course, for those who play out "live" having the best of Motif bank is a must have... The B.O.M.B. is firstly, a bank of Performances and is an introductory basic sound set that positively presents it as a part of the "Motif" family.

Now that I understand BOMB does not provide new voices, can I assume that the pianos (specifically, A001, A011, A014) and organ (A027) that I hear in the BOMB video demo have been tweaked to produce a different sound than the equivalent factory voices? And by tweaked I'm asking, are those factory voices that have been altered by using some software, such as, the John Melas Voice Editor?

Thanks!
Ol'Will

 
Posted : 24/11/2015 1:45 pm
Bad Mister
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When you first approach any synthesizer nowadays, it can probably do multiple things - if this is the case what sounds do you present for the walk-up customer to play?

The Dub Step wobble of "I Wub You" or the cutting edge electronica of the "Destructo" Performance, may not be for everyone. Perhaps a better set of programs should be initially presented, after all more buying decisions are based on what we call "B&B" sounds. Short for "bread and butter", again, the wonderful multiple Part Performances, the swirling syn pads, and the arpeggiated techno setups do help sell Motifs, but it is arguably the individual B&B sounds that bring home the bacon. Particularly when making a decision about buying an instrument.

So the BOMB was designed to give the MX a 'personality' most similar to the VOICE modes found in its siblings (MOXF, and Motif XF).
The Voices and Voice combinations here are designed to feel more like the B&B banks of the Motif XF. So that customers familiar with their favorite XF Voices there will find equivalents here. The MX is after all - the best of the Motif. They were most likely tweaked by the programmers to work here as MX Performances so wherever possible matching its Motif series equivalent.

 
Posted : 24/11/2015 3:18 pm
 Ol
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I'm with you on the marketing strategy, and although I'm not familiar with the Motif models, I have found since downloading the B.O.M.B. package that I generally prefer those performances over the MX factory offerings. The supplied Performance List (pdf) is also a handy reference.

While I don't hear or see any effects differences in the Full Concert Grand piano (in the three BOMB performances I checked in Vycro MX), there is a definite difference in the 16+8+5&1/3 (BOMB name 16+8+4&1/3) organ effects I can see in Vycro; and it indeed sounds different. So I would conclude that, as Bad Mister suggests, it is likely I will find other voices that have had their effects tweaked.

My challenge now pertains to my original question; i.e., how to use that tweaked organ voice in my custom performances. I can store that voice to U001, but the BOMB effects are not stored in U001; rather, it defaults to the 16+8+5&1/3 factory effects. According to the user manual, "If you execute Performance Store, the edited Voice data will not be stored; make sure to store the Voice using Voice Store" – which I believe I'm doing. I've even edited a setting (volume) to see if that would make the magic happen, but so far, no luck. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Ol' Will

 
Posted : 01/12/2015 1:13 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

...how to use that tweaked organ voice in my custom performances.

Call up the BOMB PERFORMANCE called "16+8+5&1/3"
Add the Voices to the other Parts as you desire.
Press [STORE]
Direct your new custom Performance to a different PERFORMANCE allocation.
Or use the VycroMX Performance Editor to "COLLECT" your custom Performances.

 
Posted : 01/12/2015 8:16 pm
 Ol
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Thanks, I believe that confirms my previous guess that I'd need to recreate my custom performance based on the BOMB performance. Not as hoped, but we still got lemonade. I'll just need to use a factory organ for the left hand where I've created an organ/organ split.

But just so I'm clear on it... Can you save a BOMB voice with it's edited effects to a user voice?

 
Posted : 02/12/2015 12:19 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

I think you may be reading too much into this (not sure). But in the BOMB bank, I believe the original is this way... If you recall PERFORMANCE 027 you will recall the Jimmy Smith style jazz organ as a single PART PERFORMANCE.

If you press the [SPLIT] button the "voice in waiting" happens to be the "LEFT MANUAL" the preferred walking bass line for Jimmy Smith style jazz walking bass... ready to go! Either the BOMB bank came this way - or its the edit I personally would have done. I like the LEFT MANUAL Voice split because it is built just to do "walking bass"... also if I recall the Rotary Speaker (on MW) only affects the right hand (heaven! or I should say, my preference). I recall the BOMB bank is full of such "Easter eggs"!

You are always working in a PERFORMANCE in the MX. You can play a SINGLE PART, or you can add the second PART by either pressing [SPLIT] or [LAYER]. The difference being where the second PART gets mapped... across the keyboard for a LAYER and just to the left of the split point in a SPLIT.

Now, with the (free) VycroMX Performance Editor - you can place as many PARTS on a single MIDI channel as you desire. So if you wanted to layer two or three or more sounds in your right hand over the bass you could. With the EDITOR you can use the MIDI CHANNEL and NOTE RANGE to create huge overlapping split/layers - use your imagination. It then can be STORED in the physical MX. So this is the case where the EDITOR allows you to do something you cannot do from the front panel.

From the front panel you have only QUICK EDIT functions for SINGLE, LAYER and SPLIT.
With the EDITOR you can pre determine MIDI channel, so you can layer and split as many PARTS as you desire across the keyboard!!!

But just so I'm clear on it... Can you save a BOMB voice with it's edited effects to a user voice?

You can "store" a Voice used in PART of a BOMB Performance to a USER VOICE location... this means it will be stored there with the INSERT EFFECT as used in the PERFORMANCE you got it from. But the Chorus and Reverb (the SYSTEM Effects) are separate from the VOICE... and therefore do not get stored with the USER VOICE.

Okay, analogy time, only because it helps visualize what is happening: The INSERT EFFECT is technically speaking, apart of the VOICE itself. The INSERT Effect is one that belongs to that instrument alone. In this case, it is the Rotary Speaker for the B3 organ... in the real world the organ player has a Leslie Speaker. It is inserted 'inline' with the organ players signal. It is not shared by anyone else in the band - it is a personal 'effect', it is apart of the organ Voice itself. (And in the MX that is how it is "stored", as apart of the VOICE). Another example would be the "Compressor-Distortion-Delay" Insert Effect on the "Crunchy" Guitar Voice, or the "Wah-Wah" on the VintageWah electric piano. It gives the Voice its personality, and is used as a "personal" effect.

The SYSTEM EFFECTS are different from the INSERT EFFECT, because they do not belong to the individual player (and they do not get "stored" in the VOICE). They are the "shared" effects that belong to environment - they are not "personal" effects. The REVERB and CHORUS (more properly called a 'Time Delay' effect) are there to recreate the outer environment. The ROOM ACOUSTICS, if you will. They do not belong to the player, they are not apart of the VOICE, they represent the ROOM that the player and his Rotating Speaker are placed in. Reverb gives you the short quick reflections within the room, while the "time delay" processor is for longer time repeats... from Phase/Flange/Chorus (short) to Echoes and multiple repeats (long)... These SYSTEM EFFECTS are NOT apart of the VOICE. They do NOT necessarily get STORED with the USER VOICE.

When you decide to use the USER VOICE< you will need to use it in a PERFORMANCE... think of the MX PERFORMANCE as a place where one or more musicians can go to play together. Think of it as a room in which you assemble the band. Three of the band members can bring along their own INSERTION EFFECT from home... but all 16 musicians will share the ROOM ACOUSTICS and the TIME DELAY characteristics of the environment YOU construct with the SYSTEM EFFECTS. Each Part has a Send (like an Aux Send on a mixer) that allows you decide how much or if any is applied to a Part.

the REVERB and CHORUS (SYSTEM) Effects and their Send amount settings are STORED in the PERFORMANCE (not in the VOICE). The INSERTION EFFECT is STORED in the VOICE, because it is apart of the Voice parameter set.

Hope that helps shed some light on that lemonade. What you want to understand is that what makes the organ Voice, the organ Voice is the Rotary Speaker Effect - that is what gives it, its personality! Not the reverberation - you change that depending on how many other instruments are in the mix. You don't fix that as apart of the organ. It is separate. So if you want the organ to sound EXACTLY like it does in the BOMB Performance. Learn what it is you like about how the SYSTEM EFFECTS are set, see if they have anything to do with what you really like. You'll learn later that - when the B3 is played alone, you might use less or more reverb than when you place it in an ensemble... Your feeling about reverberation changes depending on the instrumentation surrounding the part in question.

Take a B3 to the local bar with rugs on the floor and walls, then take it to Madison Square Garden with its cavernous depth... The external environment can change independent of the musician and his personal gear!

So when you recall the USER version of the organ Voice expect its Rotary Speaker to come along... remember that there is a limit of 3 PARTS that can recall their INSERT EFFECT simultaneously.

 
Posted : 02/12/2015 1:36 pm
 Ol
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Yep, can't play in the ballroom like you can in the grillroom, for sure. Most helpful and appreciated -- thanks!

 
Posted : 02/12/2015 11:59 pm
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