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Tremolo behaving weird

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I have a performance for a Rhodes with a tremolo applied to the Ins A and a flanger applied to ins B of part 1. The tremolo is acting weird. My intent is to have the tremolo depth be controlled by the ModWheel so that the farther up you roll the wheel, the more depth you have. I will get the performance to work just the way I want it and then save it. Then, when I re-load the performance again, the ModWheel will behave totally different. It basically functions so down is off and up is on with on being rapid fast (about 100x the speed that I originally set it at). In addition, the tremolo will just stop working randomly. The performance will suddenly not have tremolo applied. Turning ins A off and then on again will not fix it. I have to re-select a tremolo preset to get it to work again, then I have to customize its setting all over again. It's really annoying. Can anyone figure out why it's doing this? See screen shots.

Attached files

 
Posted : 30/08/2021 7:19 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

In the first screenshot the AM DEPTH = 53.
In the fifth screenshot you have the “Polarity” set Bi-directional.

This means when you recall the Performance, the AM DEPTH is recalled at 53, this is the ‘stored’ value.
The MW as a controller sends 0 thru 127, and when a Performance is recalled the MW resets to 0.

With your current settings you will be able to increase and return the AM DEPTH to the stored value.

If you want the MW position to reflect the AM DEPTH, set the AM DEPTH = 0, this way when you recall the Performance the MW = 0 and so does your AM DEPTH. As you raise the MW you will be increasing the AM DEPTH, as well.

The “Polarity” determines how the values change. Set the “Polarity” = Uni. This way you can see how it will increase the AM DEPTH from minimum-to-maximum. The x-axis 0 (horizontal centerline); when the ramp reaches the top you have reached maximum. How quickly (or how far you have to move the MW before) it reaches the ceiling is determined by the positive “Ratio” number.

A “Ratio” = +32 will reach the maximum at upper right corner of the graph meaning a linear increase. You will reach maximum AM DEPTH when the MW reaches its maximum (all the way up).
A “Ratio” greater than +32 will make the maximum happen before the MW reaches its max position. Example +63 will reach the ceiling when the MW is moved a small amount
A “Ratio” that is less than +32 will never reach the maximum DEPTH. Example +16 will never reach the ceiling. This is useful if you have a particular maximum you never want to pass.

Set the Ratio to a value that is comfortable for you to operate the MW…

Extra Credit:
Because you are using the MW as your controller, you would set the AM DEPTH parameter to the value you want it when the program is recalled. Therefore if you wanted some tremolo initially, you would set that DEPTH parameter accordingly. Then the MW would be able to increase from that value as you moved the wheel up, and it would return to that value when you return the MW to minimum.

As to Speed changing, we don’t have a screenshot of the Control Assign set that is addressing the TREMOLOs LFO Speed.
Set the “Display Filter” = to All, then review the Destination assignments…find “InsA LFO Spd”

 
Posted : 30/08/2021 8:12 pm
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Bad Mister, your info was helpful (I didn't know most of it), but I'm still having the issue where the speed of the tremolo is always super fast. I'll dial down the hertz and then it will seemingly randomly revert back to super fast again. I have no idea why.

I'm also thinking I will want to assign a knob instead of the modwheel so that I can have the lowest setting be more than zero.

I attached the LFO page. I have no idea what it is or what it is for, just for your reference.

Attached files

 
Posted : 31/08/2021 1:38 am
Jason
Posts: 7905
Illustrious Member
 

There is no knob, ribbon, or wheel that limits the lowest setting. They all range from 0-127. It's up to your curve and initial parameter setting to define the limit. Maybe you're thinking about how superknob can assign limits on how much the knobs move when you turn superknob. However, still turning the assignable knobs themselves still go from full 0-127.

BM already explained this. If you used a positive unipolar standard curve (an increasing ramp) then when your knob or wheel is at the "0" position (wheel rolled all the way back or knob all the way counterclockwise) - then the curve will be at the far left. At this position in the curve, the curve shows to leave the parameter alone (neither add nor subtract anything to/from the destination parameter).

If the speed increases too fast then decrease the ratio. The ratio will define the maximum offset added by the source controller.

 
Posted : 31/08/2021 7:46 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

Bad Mister, your info was helpful (I didn't know most of it), but I'm still having the issue where the speed of the tremolo is always super fast. I'll dial down the hertz and then it will seemingly randomly revert back to super fast again. I have no idea why.

I'm also thinking I will want to assign a knob instead of the modwheel so that I can have the lowest setting be more than zero.

I attached the LFO page. I have no idea what it is or what it is for, just for your reference.

I don’t see the screenshot showing “InsA LFO Spd”
I see “InsB LFOSpd” but Insert B is a “Classic Flanger” not Tremolo.
There are 16 potential DESTINATION, (4 are shown per PAGE) use the PAGE option upper right to view PAGES 2-4, there maybe other Controller Assignments.

Are you sure the LFO Speed you hear increasing is the Insert Effect’s LFO?… when you say the LFO speed multiplies by a factor of 100x that has to be the Extended LFO assigned to one of the Elements, that would mean you are looking for a DESTINATION that is assigned to an ELFO Speed (Element LFO Spd) not necessarily the Insertion Effects.

If while viewing the “Mod/Control” > “Control Assign” screens, you tap “Auto Select” (turns green when active) you can engage any Controller and everything assigned to that Controller will appear in the Display (Display Filter).

You can use any controller and have the lowest setting be whatever you want. I explained that as well in the previous post. The MW sends 0-127, and resets to 0 for every Performance. But just because the MW is at 0, does not necessarily mean your assigned parameter is at 0, what it means is whatever value you give the Destination parameter will act as the value that is heard when the MW resets.
If you want 0 (minimum) on the MW to equal 0 tremolo Depth set the AM DEPTH = 0
If you want 0 (minimum) on the MW to equal 23 tremolo Depth set AM DEPTH = 23
Minimum on the MW = the AM DEPTH you store.
You had it at 53… since you can’t lower the MW below 0, your minimum was stored as 53… so when you Store and recall the Performance you will hear Tremolo Depth as 53, you can increase it up from 53 and return to 53 when you bring the MW back down.

So you can set the minimum of the MW = whatever depth you want when initially recalling the Performance.
You can set the maximum of the MW = whatever depth you want when the MW is moved all the way up, but setting the Ratio value.

You need to provide more info, or we’ll get into a silly guessing game.
By the way, the AM DEPTH has nothing at all to do with the Speed… other than if AM DEPTH = 0 there will be no Tremolo and Speed will be meaningless.

If this 100x Speed thing happens when you move the MW, activate “Auto Select” to find out what else is assigned to your MW.

Hint: if you are working with a Multi Part Performance, please use the SOLO function so you know for sure what your are hearing when you make a setting. For all you know the MW might be affecting ELFO Speed of an Element in a completely different Part of the Performance.

 
Posted : 31/08/2021 2:16 pm
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I was able to figure out how to control the depth and the speed and assigning each to a knob thanks to Jason and Bad Mister. The 100x thing I was describing ended up being that the LFO SPEED ratio went up very quickly, so I ended up only setting it to 6 or 7, otherwise it was ludicrously fast when the knob was turned to up to 127. I have learned a lot about knob assigning and setting effects by tinkering and trouble shooting this problem, so I appreciate the help. 🙂

New question: I noticed that my assigned knobs don't work when I recall the performance unless I navigate to the performance home screen and highlight part 1 (the performance only has one part, btw, which is the part whose Ins A and Ins B I have been manipulating during the conversation above). How can I make it so I can use the knobs immediately when I recall the performance from the Live Set screen?

 
Posted : 01/09/2021 11:21 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

I have learned a lot about knob assigning and setting effects by tinkering and trouble shooting this problem, so I appreciate the help. 🙂

I have found this is the best way to learn a subject. Hands-on. You will find many of the “Mastering MODX” articles are written with this type of experimental tinkering if you follow them while at the product.

New question: I noticed that my assigned knobs don't work when I recall the performance unless I navigate to the performance home screen and highlight part 1 (the performance only has one part, btw, which is the part whose Ins A and Ins B I have been manipulating during the conversation above). How can I make it so I can use the knobs immediately when I recall the performance from the Live Set screen?

This is accomplished by linking the Part Assign Knob(s) to one of the 8 Common Assign Knobs (the ones that by default are linked to the Super Knob)

When a Performance is recalled, whether it has one or sixteen Parts, the upper Common level is active. It is this upper Common level that links all the Part slots into a recallable entity. The Knobs on this upper Common level of the architecture can be made available for immediate interaction — they can be setup independently or linked with Super Knob motion (if that is convenient) — make sure the [ASSIGN] button is lit when you STORE the Performance.

When you are on the individual Part’s “Mod/Control” > “Control Assign” screen, you will see a shortcut box “Edit Common Control Settings”
Tapping this box will take you up to the Common level where you can link movement of the Part Assign Knob to the movement of one of the Common Assign Knobs.

Say within Part 1 you have the Part Assign Knob 1 set to control a parameter within Insert Effect A, “InsA LFO Dpth” when you tap the box “Edit Common Control Settings” you are taken to the upper level (the one that will be active when the Performance is recalled). Find an available assignment — it will be the first one with a “+” (there are 4 PAGEs of Control Assignments).
For our example say all the options are available.
Tap the “+” to add a Destination
Tap the initial parameter destination that appears and instead set it to control:
“Part 1 Assign 1”
Literally, the Common Assign Knob listed as “Source” will now control Part 1’s Assign Knob 1 and will be responsible for the “InsA LFO Dpth”. The Ratio as set in the Part will determine ‘how much’.

You can return to your Part, with the shortcut box “Edit Part 1 Control Settings”
Say Part has Part Assign Knob 2 set to control the “InsA LFO Spd”
You can return to the upper Common level with the shortcut… and “+” add a Destination “Part 1 Assign 2”.

You can set a different upper level Assign Knob, or assign it to the same one you assigned “LFO Depth”… because you can precisely control “how much” is applied to each, by using the RATIO setting… you can have a single Knob control both the Depth and the Speed so that one Knob gives you exactly what you want from minimum-to-maximum.

The point is by making the assignments to the Part Assign Knobs, then uplinking them to the Common Assign Knobs, you can choose which parameters are going to be available when you recall the Performance.

This, as you’ll see, can be very useful. If you are in KBD CTRL of several different Parts… you select which parameters are available to the Common Assign Knob. This is where giving nicknames to the Assign Knobs comes in.

In the tutorial articles we go over this. Each of the eight Knobs can be doing something for any of the Parts, you design this as you require.

Let us know.

 
Posted : 01/09/2021 8:34 pm
Dragos
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
 

I have found this is the best way to learn a subject. Hands-on. You will find many of the “Mastering MODX” articles are written with this type of experimental tinkering if you follow them while at the product.

Too bad all those articles are STILL missing all the files required so are basically unusable.
Despite repeated reports via all available channels and careful documenting of all broken links, nobody at Yamaha can be bothered.

 
Posted : 02/09/2021 8:01 am
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