Hi, welcome to YamahaSynth!

The Montage does not recognize the Motif XF’s Performance data but as I like very much most of the Preset Performances from Motif serie I would like to ask if it is or it will be possible to load them in some way as a Library Bank e.g.?

A Library File for the Montage includes Montage only data... As you correctly state the Montage does not recognize the Motif XF's Performances. BTW, there are no Preset Performances in the Motif-series, they are all in USER memory. (We know what you mean, however).

A PERFORMANCE in the Motif-series was made up of individual VOICES assigned to PARTs 1-4 of a PERFORMANCE. Basically, the PERFORMANCE PART "pointed" to a Preset Voice location. So for example, a Motif XF Performance might "point to" the location Pre1:001(A01) - which would indicate that the FULL CONCERT GRAND would be used in the PERFORMANCE... You had a set of parameters (PART parameters) that allowed you to offset certain values - editing the Full Concert Grand without destructively editing anywhere else. This collection of OFFSET parameters allowed you to change the volume, the pan position, the Effect Send amounts, the EQ, even the Note Limits on the keyboard... all without changing the Full Concert Grand anywhere else in the Motif XF.
So Motif XF does not iniclude VOICE data in the PERFORMANCE slot, only a "pointer" that directed it to use the data housed in the VOICE location Preset 1, 001, A01... to which it applies the Part parameter offsets.

There are no such Voice locations in Montage, and for all intents and purposes - the Montage has such a massive storage area, it actually stores a new version of the PART data in each and every PERFORMANCE location. Again, we'll have more information as we near release.

Motif XF sounds are imported into Montage as occupying 1 slot of 8 under Keyboard Control. So currently, there is no "look up" table that would allow the Montage to assemble the Voices found in a Motif XF file... That is not to say there couldn't be - Currently, all we can say - the Montage can read and load VOICE data from the Motif XF.

I assume that recreate manually one preset performance from XF is a question of pick out the correct Single Part Performances and Arps, and in case of User XF performaces I would have to load all their voices as Single Part Performances first (if user voices were used in XF).

That sounds about right.

Thank you very much for your reply!

I'm not understanding this.

Easy sounds states on their website "Our popular MOTIF Soundlibrary will be prepared for the new Yamaha TOP-Synth MONTAGE. The soundsets will include the optimized Performances, Voices, Samples and User Arpeggios. Also the new MONTAGE features will be used.

So, how will they be able to port Motif Performances? And why can't Yamaha do the same for the factory performances from the Motif series?

Something is not adding up here.

Saying that they do not load in automatically does not not mean it can't be done.
There is Voice compatibility, the rest is just "look it up" work
Easy Sounds sees an opportunity to do the work for you, when they convert their Library, that's great!!! They definitely will "be prepared" in order to work in the Montage.

Thanks. Makes sense now. 🙂

It makes sense that Easy Sounds ensures upwards compatibility of Motif performances to Montage.

However, does it make sense for Yamaha not to do it with the factory performances from Motif XF? Why throw existing Motif users under the bus w.r.t. performances which have been a popular feature of the Motif XF?

If you ask one of the Motif/Montage software developers to manually convert the 512 (or so - not sure about the exact number) factory Motif performances to Montage format, the software developer may convert a few performances manually, after which he/she will say: "This is repetitive - let me write a converter program to do it". And with the developer's knowledge of the memory locations of factory voices and arpeggios etc., it may quickly be done.

As regards performances created by the users on Motif XF which include user-modified voices, user created arpeggios, etc it may not be possible (or at least much more involved) to make a software converter.

However, does it make sense for Yamaha not to do it with the factory performances from Motif XF?

Yes, actually it does. I'm pretty sure an effort was made to move specifically away from making the Montage sound like a Motif XF. Surprised you don't see it in just that light. Imagine all these new powerful features, all these new concepts, all the next level calculation speed, and then imagine issuing the order... 'Make it sound exactly like the previous model ... By duplicating all 512 Performances.'

I just cannot envision that happening.

I can imagine some one (else) considering creating a tool to get that done, because as you prove, there is always going to be some one "singing the praises of the old bulb"... We get it, but having the same exact Performance data appear in the new keyboard... Nah! But the voices, the arps, sure bring those over.

Yamaha has in the past worked with third party programmers to make value-added software available. We can certainly imagine someone writing just such a type of software...valuable it will be especially to those wanting to move their old setup to their new setup.

I have to ask should the new synth have new demo songs, ya think? ... 🙂

I'd be perfectly willing to write that kind of software. I'd need the specs of the XS/XF and Montage file formats. During the ES days (2004?) I wrote a simple librarian (MoVoM - as in Motif Voice Manager) that extracts voice names and categories from ES files WITHOUT having an actual synth to begin with let alone any file format specs.

Not having voices, just seems a complicating factor to me... Now if i use the motif from an external sequencer, sending midi notes to all 16 channels, and i want to change the sound on such a channel ... How can that be done if i can no longer call for a voice number over midi?

In my opion having voices is perfect, and as long as you can save all the modifications to that voice in a performance, it would be okay...

Either that, or having the option for a performance to consist of up 16 performances (if they would all be single channel performance)

Maybe it is because i dont know the structure of the new Montage yet, but right now, its quite confusing and only seems to limit the potential. Time will tell.

I'm pretty sure an effort was made to move specifically away from making the Montage sound like a Motif XF. Surprised you don't see it in just that light. Imagine all these new powerful features, all these new concepts, all the next level calculation speed...

Absolutely I see the new features and concepts which is why I have pre-ordered the Montage 8.

I was simply thinking that it would be in the interest of Yamaha to bring Motif users as quickly as possible onto the new platform - and in that respect it is helpful to provide upwards compatibility. Users will like to keep functionality that they appreciate. It is great that all voices and arps are made available but I do not really see why performances are so much different than voices and arps when it comes to compatibility. I agree that someone in any case may say that it seems to be the same old Motif story, if too much attention is paid to this, however that is only if they do not see the new possibilities.

Anyway, I guess it is likely that a third party will provide some help as you also mention, not at least considering the size of the Motif community.

In my opion having voices is perfect, and as long as you can save all the modifications to that voice in a performance, it would be okay...

When we say there is no Voice mode, it is to say that all modifications to a sound are stored in the PERFORMANCE so there is only a PERFORMANCE mode. You understand it without having seen it. If you edit a PART it is automatically stored as a PART of the current PERFORMANCE - the fundamental work area is now a PERFORMANCE. You understand, you only need to see it for it to make complete sense.

Either that, or having the option for a performance to consist of up 16 performances (if they would all be single channel performance)

Well, that's a bit clumsy to say - a PERFORMANCE cannot be 16 PERFORMANCES - A Performance is made up of 16 PARTS. These can be single PARTS each on a separate MIDI channel or you can play up to as many as 8 of them simultaneously, or whatever you desire to do

In Motif XF you placed VOICES in PARTS... so you completely understand that what was a VOICE in Motif XF occupies a single PART of 16 available PARTS in a Montage PERFORMANCE. You can set 8 of these PARTS to KEYBOARD CONTROL - means you are controlling them simultaneously from the keyboard and controllers and arpeggiators and Motion Sequences of the Montage.

If you want to use the Montage like a Motif XF in SONG or PATTERN mode, simply setup for sixteen PARTS each addressable on a separate MIDI channel from a separate Track. How you setup to work is entirely up to you.

when you talk about 16 available PARTS in a Montage PERFORMANCE,for instance with the use of a midi seq, can I use 16 AWM2 timbres or 16 FM-X timbres, or do I have the limit of 8AWM2+8FMX timbres?

You can have any combination of AMW2 and FM-X parts, so 16 * AWM2 or 16 * FM-X is absolutely possible.

Thanks a lot

where did you get this info?

Cheers