Perhaps you are not understanding the SCENE function. There should be no reason why you cannot reach up and touch the button you require; the excuse of keeping both hands on the keyboard does not play out here. Perhaps in situation where you need to actually keep both hands on the keys, there is a completely different feature designed for that purpose.

Scenes were designed for use when you have time to reach up and touch a button. There are other ways on the Motion Control Synth Engine to transition that are based around keeping your hands on the keys. Scenes is not one of them. The Scene is designed to be recalled by pressing the associated blue button. Please describe what you need to do and perhaps we can direct you to an alternative method to accomplish what you require sans touching a button. Perhaps not, but clearly, if you cannot touch a button, Scenes are not for you.

You could automate Scene changes via MIDI

I think the limmited pedals (only 1 switch) are a flaw in th eyes of many...

The fact that you state that scene changes are meant to happen when your not busy playing sounds like a flaw too... It sounds like yamaha telling me how to use the scenes... What ever happened to the freedom of a musician and deciding how to use the tools... Instead of yamaha restricting peoples freedom..

Just look at the MFC10 pedals produced by Yamaha itselves, integration of these pedals in the Montage, just like Yamaha did for the Tyros would allow people to switch all kind of things while playing the instrument with 2 hands....

whats wrong with people wanting to switch scenes, articualtions and wht else with their feet?

Also its a sad thing for controlling these performance that i can not use a midi footswitch unit like the Yamaha MFC10 trough the midi in, as well as midi amd audio over USB at the same time...

Thats yet another restriction to the freedom of the musicians...

Is there any chance a future upgrade will allow people to use both the physical midi as well as the midi over USB at the same time?

Just look at the MFC10 pedals produced by Yamaha itselves, integration of these pedals in the Montage, just like Yamaha did for the Tyros would allow people to switch all kind of things while playing the instrument with 2 hands....

whats wrong with people wanting to switch scenes, articualtions and wht else with their feet?

Also its a sad thing for controlling these performance that i can not use a midi footswitch unit like the Yamaha MFC10 trough the midi in, as well as midi amd audio over USB at the same time...

Thats yet another restriction to the freedom of the musicians...

Is there any chance a future upgrade will allow people to use both the physical midi as well as the midi over USB at the same time?

Hi Jules, Nice rant, but I'm afraid a bit misplaced. The fact that role of the MIDI jack changes when you connect a Yamaha synth to a computer via USB or FW (whichever happens to be apropo) does not mean you can't plug in and use a device like a smart foot switch (like an MFC10) and use at the same time you are using the USB/FW to record and communicate both MIDI and/or Audio to your computer.

Respectfully, this has always been available. (We'd wish people would stop saying it is not possible) it is a matter of routing. When Montage, to be specific, is connected via USB to a computer it automatically re-tasks the 5-pin MIDI ports for an external device. This can be any MIDI device or controller, you then can address that device from within the software. If you wish that device to address the Montage you can by simply routing it there! - Set a MIDI Track with MIDI IN = Montage 3; MIDI OUT = Montage 1 that device is now merged as an input device to the Montage!

Montage 1 = the USB-MIDI port that address the Montage itself
Montage 3 = the USB-MIDI port that addresses the 5-pin MIDI jacks

All you're doing in the computer is routing the signal coming in the 5-pin jack to the Montage's USB In.

This is the same as connecting that device via Midi to the Montage; you simply are doing the routing in the software. Make sense? Yamaha synths have worked this way since Motif (classic). The fact that it has a built-in MIDI interface means, yes, you have to use the connected device to echo (thru) the data, but you get the added benefit of an additional MIDI device routed to your DAW. How you use it, once it's signal is there, is up to you ... Ah, freedom! We think this is actually more freeing to the musician.

If you have an MFC10 that you need to use with your Yamaha synth please post a question we can help you. Unfortunately, for those who don't know, the MFC10 is an ancient, long in the tooth, but very serious Midi Foot Controller 1.0 (I call it that, because it is a really functional item, but no frills, you address it with MIDI code, it's like an engineer's piece of gear: All about the function, no so much about the "form" or user interface. But for MIDI power users it's about getting it done. I'm a big fan of MFC10!

I'm sure if they made a replacement it would have a graphic user friendly interface... But, anyway, you can do a lot with an intelligent Foot Controller... So your point is well taken... However, the age of the MFC10 precludes it from really being useful for say switching SCENEs - but you'd need an updated pedal that could send Parameter Change (sysex) messages (not cc messages like the old MFC). And indeed, you are correct, a market may grow for just such a product some time in the future... The hooks to use it are already in place. And since now you know how to use the Midi In and the USB computer connection at the same time... You're almost there. 🙂 not so sad!

BM - here's a scenario which I envisioned using Scenes but maybe you'd have a better idea. Performance is set up with four voices - I play 2 voices (split) while other 2 are mute/off. then I switch scene to turn the first two off and play the 2nd two (also split in some fashion)..

A variation - I keep one voice constantly on, but switch among several voices in one section of the keyboard based on verse, chorus, bridge, etc.

I was thinking scene would be an easy way to do this. what I used to do on my XF was program at the element level = on with All AF Off, AF1, AF2. I set my footswitch to toggle and latch AF1 so when I toggled AF1 on, the "AF off" elements would turn off and AF1 elements would turn on. Hence a clumsy approach to turn voices on and off by toggle (not sure if this makes sense). for AF2 I had to press the button, so I used that very rarely only when I ran out of AF1 options.

I too like to be able to switch "voices" (yes, not the Montage terminology, apologies) with a foot switch vs my hands. Best way to do something simple like this is ... ?

I don't have a Montage yet, it will be awhile, so please feel free to defer this response while you address actual current owners queries :). Actually, my next immediate board will be a MOXF6 for air travel gigs to use as a master sound generator for a + playing keyboard. I'll have more immediate questions on that as soon as it arrives, in the proper forum of course :).

Is it vital that all of these variety of sound combinations are in the same performance? What you could do is create a separate performance for each one, use live sets to place them in the order that you want to play them then use a footswitch to move seamlessly between them so your hands never have to leave the keys.

@ David
Phil is correct. Excellent suggestion. There are a number of ways to accomplish the goal other than Scenes (which are not necessarily suited for your stated requirements). Scenes were designed for a particular kind of recall. Your so called "clumsy approach" at least is using a feature that was specifically designed for seamless transitioning of sound while performing. The XA CONTROL is a "musical" approach to the problem, while changing sounds with Mutes, as it would be using the Scenes, is not (it's more of an engineer's approach to a music problem). I'll explain.

So even though you envision this as a use for Scenes, does not change how they are designed to create change. Scenes can remember a lot of things, Mute status is one of them. A Mute turns off the connection between an instrument and the audio output. The XA CONTROL switches enables a condition so that at the next musical note-on a new condition of available waveforms is sounding. This is *musical* (not at all clumsy) and, by design, no sound is interrupted by the recall of the AF switches or the conditions they cause. A lot of technology to make that happen! Those AF switches can be activated by Foot Switch and/or a Foot Controller. Montage allows customization of controllers per Performance (only the FS and Sustain are globally programmed).

Scenes are good for a lot of things but envisioning what they will do, and actually doing it is going to teach you how different those things can be in reality. You don't have a Montage yet, so we think it obvious that you wouldn't know. Phil's suggestion above, of setting up multiple Performance is a more musically possible idea, than the Scenes switches (as you envision). It would be a poor use of their recall capability if seamless hands-free change is your goal. You can smoothly move between Performances (with a foot switch) because this musical solution is within the design concept.

You just found out about "Scenes", and are trying to make them fit something of your own vision. Sorry, it does not fit in with what they were actually designed to do. It's like looking at the buttons that operate the roll up windows in a car, and deciding they should operate the windshield wipers... Yes they are also switches, but just not that switch. 🙂

Background on Scenes
Scenes are "snapshot" memory. The term, Scene, comes from our digital mixers. The concept of a "snapshot" comes from a photograph. Back in the day, 1970's to be exact, when studios rolled two inch tapes... Every studio had a Poloroid SX70 Land camera... Seriously! You know, the one that took the picture, spit out a piece of paper with chemicals on it that magically, in just 60 seconds, would turn into a picture. These were called snapshots. You took snapshots of the recording console settings and the patchbay configuration... Pre Automation-days. These were kept in the box with the roll of tape so that you could reconstruct your session next week. Grease pencil marks on the console never survived the next session. It recalls a condition of specific parameters - here in the synth this is expanded beyond just the mixer to include filter and amplitude envelope offsets, effects, etc., etc., etc.

Snapshot memory is best strategically recalled at musically relevant moments. At the bridge, at the chorus,mat the top of the verse... You'll find that Arps and Motion Sequences which are memorized in Scenes, are smoothly transitioned because the changes are *designed* to take place at the 'top of the next measure' (a musically relevant location). Volume level is also one of the memorized settings. Again changing volume is an engineer's solution to the loud/soft thing, a musician's approach always has something to do with amount of effort/energy applied to the instrument.

Engineers approach music differently than musicians... Take 'fade outs', for an example, musicians don't usually fade out, but 99% of recordings you've ever played, do.

Anyway, a synthesizer is a rather unique combination of musical and engineering approaches to making and performing music. The Montage is a sophisticated musical instrument, with a serious Yamaha digital mixer built-in. I would highly recommend once you own one, to take the time to first try to see the technology in the mind's eye of the designers before you 'redesign' the functions.

You have not experienced the "Super Knob" which can seamlessly (by design) morph between instruments in ways you'll have to feel for yourself, and yes it can be moved with a Foot Controller. You have some very powerful tools, take your time. Enjoy!

Hope that helps...

Thanks David and Phil - great insight into this amazing new machine (which I hope to get my hands on before fall!). I understand more clearly why scenes wouldn't be the best approach to achieve this particular functional goal (eg part switching), thats why I ask, to learn ... thanks.

Interesting thread, I too was looking to do the same thing as David. I was building a Live Set for a song (about 12 different perf changes) and I figured rather than build several similar perfs with minor layer changes, I'd just use the Scene function to mute, change panning and mix, etc. across all 8 parts in the perf. All the lines require two simultaneous hands, so I was definitely looking for way to step through it with a pedal (the same as I already do for perfs in a Live Set). Not the end of the world that I can't, and I guess I get the design logic (thanks for the trip down memory lane), but at this point I guess I'm limited to using Scenes for the EDM thing for now...only because I can't think of any other use at this time other than what I've learned with the stock perfs. I've only had the board for two weeks though so I'm admittedly still a total noob at the moment 😀 With 640 user perfs available, I guess I don't need to worry too much about using them all up just yet. I definitely hear you on sticking with perfs just for Seamless Sound Switching...fooking awesome feature by the way m/ m/

Hi Bad Mister, i hope you can help me... I still have a MFC-10 which i am using for a very specific gig, and i cannot quite do it without that pedal because of an enourmous amount of sounds used and super quick changes. The favorite bank is not quick enough and the amount of sounds are too many to store in it. Thus, the MFC-10 for this gig is CRUCIAL. I used it on my Motifs and now have a Montage and I simply cannot get the pedal setup to do the program changes needed. Can you help me? Please please..

@Jaconell
Be sure to set your midi channel to 92.

I do it like this on another board.
https://yamahasynth.com/forum/change-scenes-with-foot-controller#reply-17825

Jaconell wrote:

Hi Bad Mister, i hope you can help me... I still have a MFC-10 which i am using for a very specific gig, and i cannot quite do it without that pedal because of an enourmous amount of sounds used and super quick changes. The favorite bank is not quick enough and the amount of sounds are too many to store in it. Thus, the MFC-10 for this gig is CRUCIAL. I used it on my Motifs and now have a Montage and I simply cannot get the pedal setup to do the program changes needed. Can you help me? Please please..

I can help you. The MFC10 works exactly the same for MONTAGE as it did for the Motif XF.

What is different is you have a different set of Bank Select (MSB/LSB) and Program Changes.

What (exactly) do you want to do? Please be specific.