Proves that Yamaha is rather dumb or whomever makes decisions on the most basic level are not too bright. Genos is the top of the line state of the art technology from which all things trickle down. So how does a plastic $300 production cost CK received Genos pipe organs yet the premier, flagship, top shelf, top of class ORGAN focused show case machine like YC get none, zip, zero, nada? Things should simply make common sense. Now If the FM/DX additions are internally programed and processed by the FM generator then that makes sense even if we don't need EDM. I listened to the harp, choir and new pianos and they are okay and welcomed but not in front of Organs which is the purpose for existence of the YC. Probably someone "forgot" it was an organ machine but again a cheapo pipe organ wouldn't cut it on YC. It needs to be organic and fantastically done. Even an FM pipe organ using the FM engine would be as obvious as obvious could ever obviously be obvious.

[quotePost id=121036]Genos is the top of the line state of the art technology from which all things trickle down. [/quotePost]
Not really... there are lots of things that are better in Montage/MODX, P515/CP/YC have better pianos, YC has better (non-pipe) organs. Genos does have their best versions of many acoustic emulations, though, like strings and horns.

Yamaha has a lot of shared technologies among their boards, but it seems like they also have different design teams working on different gear for different markets, at different times, working within different hardware and interface constraints... it's not like there's one Master device and everything else is derived from that.

But to your bigger point, yes, it would be nice to have pipe organs in the YC. A number of people have suggested this on ideascale, you might want to upvote...

https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/c/idea/42683

https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/c/idea/42750

https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/c/idea/42792

https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/c/idea/42792

Yes I used to own the Genos and like you say it has it strengths or articulations others do not. The mystery probably isn't that Yamaha doesn't realize the Organ flagship should have all the organs available but why doesn't it? We're not going out to purchase a totally different Yamaha board just for a few select sounds if that's what they think. Even Hammond SKpro knew they needed pipes and other type organs. It's not that Yamaha doesn't already know but do they even care? Might have decided it's going in version 1.5 fives years after release to keep it going. So they added 32-ish FM/DX voices and easily could have been a pipe imposter to suffice. MIght get it eventually. It's funny when a company decides what the customer needs for them. It's still my favorite board to date and I hope more is coming or YC AF "Analog Falcon". I will admit I'm like a food critic, I don't actually eat the food to survive I just write concerning what's wrong with it. I do hope it won't be dumbed down into a plastic toy with internal speakers that runs on batteries, oh crap they did that already.

[quotePost id=121040]The mystery probably isn't that Yamaha doesn't realize the Organ flagship should have all the organs available but why doesn't it? We're not going out to purchase a totally different Yamaha board just for a few select sounds if that's what they think. Even Hammond SKpro knew they needed pipes and other type organs. [/quotePost]
If I had to guess, I'd say the YC61 was envisioned as a gigging board ("stage keyboard"), and pipe organ is not widely used in that context. (How many pop songs over the last 50+ years have had a pipe organ in them? How likely is it that someone will want to jam with a pipe organ sound? Or use it to work out a new arrangement with their band? etc.) But Hammond comes from a world where one of their biggest markets is churches, and gigging board or not, that's probably a perspective they come from in all of their boards. So rather than saying "even" Hammond, I'd say Hammond is the most understandable "exception" to organ boards often being weak in the pipe organ department.

Outside of Hammond, the only organ-centric boards I can think of that have a drawbar-based pipe organ emulation are Dexibell and Nord (who added it to the Electro line with the Electro 5, added it to the Stage series with the Stage 3, added to their dedicated organ line with the C2). Roland, Korg/Vox, Kurzweil, Crumar, Viscount have assorted boards with drawbar controls, but not for pipes (many of them don't even implement that for transistor organs). Though some of them at least had rompler-style pipe organ sounds.

Also, though, there are so many different kinds of pipe organ sounds! So just saying it has or doesn't have a pipe organ sound may satisfy a checklist item, but whether it has the pipes sound you're after can really be another question. Those aforementioned Hammond and Nord implementations are enormously different.

Related, there are really tons of accordion sounds. A good number of different clav sounds, too. But the available voices for these things in boards (YC or otherwise) can be quite limited, and again, if these are sounds you care about, looking at them as simple yes-or-no checklist items may not tell you if it has the sound you want.

But getting back to your point about the YC, I agree, even if not an implementation that would allow manipulation via drawbars, at least an FM or rompler-style pipe organ or 3 in the "other" category would have been nice.

[quotePost id=121041][quotePost id=121040]
If I had to guess, I'd say the YC61 was envisioned as a gigging board ("stage keyboard"), and pipe organ is not widely used in that context. (How many pop songs over the last 50+ years have had a pipe organ in them? How likely is it that someone will want to jam with a pipe organ sound? Or use it to work out a new arrangement with their band? etc.) But Hammond comes from a world where one of their biggest markets is churches, and gigging board or not, that's probably a perspective they come from in all of their boards. So rather than saying "even" Hammond, I'd say Hammond is the most understandable "exception" to organ boards often being weak in the pipe organ department.
[/quotePost]

Hi Scott --

Well, you did acknowledge the church/worship market. Certainly Yamaha Pro Audio caters to this market because they know there are big bucks to be made. Why Yamaha would exclude church/worship services from "gigging" would be incredibly narrow-minded.

Yes, one can mix stops ad nauseum on a pipe organ. However, every church musician needs one -- ONE -- sound which is properly voiced for hymns -- ranks of principals and no bloody reeds. This isn't rocket science.

That also means, "Don't slather a butt-load of reverb all over the patch." It may sound impressive to Keith Emerson fans (sorry), but is ridiculous when played in a big, naturally reverberant church.

Even the most contemporary church gets requests and has a requirement for traditional, organ hymns.

Sorry, there just isn't an excuse for leaving this out of an "organ-focused" keyboard. I'm getting too old to wait for Yamaha to learn how to make instruments for the church/worship market...

Losing too many friends to old age already -- pj

I had a buddy that worked for Yamaha back in day used to get all his boards for nothing when I had to pay full price. He was sworn to secrecy and never did tell me how much he paid. Probably cost plus shipping if I had to guess. But we were in church and talked about Yamaha kind if abandoning the church market over the years. It's a massive market and this kind of proves what we're saying. Why exclude this type organ and cause lost sales in the hundreds if not thousands? Kind of strange. On the other hand me had a Montage in the church and the church eventually purchased another Montage. Montage was so complicated to older guys that no one could use it. Funny we're going blind as we age but we could see the Montage screen but couldn't operate it. A board like YC would have made perfect sense except you can't see the tiny screen and it has no pipe organs. It's time for a great STAGE board YC "Worship" model for churches or me for example. I will admit my YC73 is my favorite and I've owned them all including SKpro, Fantom, Genos, Montage, CP1 etc. but It could have very easily been a lot better. It can still be also. I suppose the CK88 could be the new affordable church option but it's probably too fragile.

I'll likely buy the CK and return it just to do a side by side compare but if you look at the voice list the choir, strings, 13 pipes etc. simply destroys the YC. I bought the CP, returned it but it didn't come close to the YC quality of sound so double or triple less than par sounds was acceptable. YC will obviously dominate in authenticity in the FM category since CK doesn't have an FM engine I assume. I'm most curious about the AWM2 because I'm guessing Yamaha didn't want to completely sink the YC ship. I have to flip through all the voices in my same room using my same gear side by side with my YC. I'll report back but I'm sure someone has already compared side by side. How long can batteries run this system using speakers at respectable volume on 8 "AA" batteries? Would have made more sense to install a very common laptop computer type lithium rechargeable but this board is already cheap as cheap can get. The Yamaha toy boards used to get close to $500. Go watch that youtube video of the guy who pulls one from the mud on the side of the road and hoses it off and it still works.

[quotePost id=121044]Would have made more sense to install a very common laptop computer type lithium rechargeable [/quotePost]
You can get rechargeable lithium AA.

Some great things about AA: Any time you need to, you can pop in batteries and be up and running. With a built-in rechargeable, if you haven't used the device in quite some time, and suddenly need to, it may not work until plugged in for a good amount of time. Moreover, eventually, you will need to locate a replacement for any built-in rechargeable. AAs are ubiquitous. Even 10+ years from now, it is a near certainty that you'll find them easily and cheaply.

As opposed to "AAA" batteries which is a conspiracy because they are expensive and don't last long enough to matter.

CK is coming in a few days. The pipes and other organs on the SKpro are fantastic so I personally might not need pipes but that doesn't stop me from stating the obvious concerning YC. This will be interesting hearing the CK library after what three years? So will winter NAMM mean anything for Yamaha since the CK was already released? Is Montage EX coming out or YC Analog coming out or Genos Infinity? etc.