I would argue the most critical aspect of sound production through headphones is the headphones themselves, or to the point, the headphone speakers.

While I don't doubt that an external amplifier (especially Neve) will be an improvement over the stock (inboard) Amp, the benefits will be relatively small.

So the stock internal integrated headphone amp installed cost is what? $20? I don't really know. It would be odd that a dedicated audiophile external amp costing 15 times as much wouldn't deliver something better. Since this pair of phones has high impedance of 250 the YC probably can't drive it at any decent volume level. Thus I might need the Neve however you can always purchase pro phones at lower impedance levels. We've all heard underpowered high end speakers. Then you add the right amp and it rises from the grave. Probably no way to test what a pair of phones can do without infusing them with clean power. I'll report back if it has any effect concerning the $40 phones vs the $500 phones with and without the amp.

A company called Focal has studio phones for $4,400 called Utopia. I've always thought they were way overpriced on regular speakers but $4,400 on phones? That seems insane beyond reason. Maybe the government supplied the parts like $200 for the custom screws etc. Even if it was gold I don't know but the question is what is going to come from that driver that magically can't come from a $1,000 pair and/or could your ear and brain even discern it if it did? We'll see if I can tell on my cheapo Beyerdynamic $600 pair, I only paid $325 used BTW.

I didn't know what headphones you have or had. The point I was trying to make is that the weak link in an expensive chain is often the speaker. Same applies for guitar combos, KB combos, home hifi etc.

A good amplifier can feed a "better" signal, but most of what you actually hear (the end product) is the "colour" of the speaker.

If you already have good headphones, then I guess you will see the benefit. I was trying to help you avoid a classic "speaker" pitfall.

[quotePost id=117988]
A good amplifier can feed a "better" signal, but most of what you actually hear (the end product) is the "colour" of the speaker. [/quotePost]
High impedance headphones, which are supposedly more sensitive, require a powerful amp.
Plugging them in your usual mixer or audio interface won't be enough.

My bad, I completely did not see/read the bit about Beyerdynamic. I only saw/registered "regular old headphones".

I will be routing out of the YC using XLRs into the Neve headphone amp and then into the Beyerdynamic DT1990 because I know the YC phone jack can't push them very well most likely. Then compare that quality to my old $40 phones plugged into the YC phones jack same as 95% of typical YC users do or any synth they might be practicing on in private. So will it sound $1,200 better? Well, together used I paid $725 plus shipping. Obviously I can use it for any music but tomorrow I will find out how it sounds on the YC. I do expect to hear something better, deeper, rounder and more detailed and thick. For example on the new studio organ leslie effect I should be able to follow each separate rotor around the "room" in my head in far greater detail. Thought that should be a good test to begin with. Regular phones without separation or wide soundstage being underpowered without enough ohms should be foggy anyway. Mine sound good but what does ultimate sound like?

Have you ever thought of "colour" or coloration of a speaker as it taking on the characteristics of an instrument itself? So if a speaker contributes or subtracts any tone or sound or anything different on top of what was recorded that speaker becomes an instrument instead of being a speaker. Generally we don't want speakers or headphones drivers transforming into instruments as if it's part of the band. The only true speaker is one that reproduces only what was recorded. Amplifier cabinets are often exactly that, separate instruments that change the original input sound. Probably why they aren't called speakers. We seem to pay extravagant amounts of money for anything close to a true speaker however if you like the final result it's all good anyway. That really does screw up studio mixing however where the true recorded sound must be all that is heard.

First test results for the YC is that it pushed the 250 ohm Beyerdynamic so I really noticed no difference using the Neve headphones amp. I'm not sure if I tested it right completely or whether the thing was broken. I'd expect a dedicated $800 amp running XLRs to outperform a Yamaha TRS integrated phone jack. I guess it's because it's a pro level piece of gear and not like you're trying to upgrade your smartphone output or vinyl record player. I think the comparison between the $40 Edifier headphones and the $600 Beyer was surprisingly close but obviously more detail and separation and sound stage on the Beyer.

I thought my YC was defective because I had to turn the volume up to max until I found the internal gain setting for output. For some reason they have the organs ear bustingly loud by default while the EPs you can't hear at all. Should be the opposite.

Is it worth $550 more $ (or $300 more if used) to upgrade to pro studio headphones? Probably so if you play in them all the time otherwise no. They do obviously feel and fit better if you'll be wearing them for hours. Cheap phones might not feel so good. I kind of see why people own like 10 different pairs of pro headphones. It's like an addiction or really fun hobby but not cheap for the good ones. Just buy the $4,400 pair of Focals and be done with collecting them.

[quotePost id=118023]It's like an addiction or really fun hobby but not cheap for the good ones. [/quotePost]
There's a whole forum dedicated to this obsession:
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php

It was actually useful when I was researching a pair of studio monitors.

I did order the Focal Utopia best headphone in the universe to listen to my YC. I like my Beyerdynamic but I wanted a comparison. $4,000 vs $300 vs $40 plus since all I do is play in cans I'll do it in total bliss. The Edifier $40 pair are dang good though but not really that comfortable. I didn't pay full price and with a 5% cash back they were $2,850 more than the YC73. I'm not sure how manufacturing costs work with those but beryllium divers an be compared to gold market prices I heard. Also interesting in an interview is that they were actually designed not as a typical headphone but a near field studio monitor in micro size which is why they dominate. (3) things make the driver perfect: weightless, rigid and dampening. Even the voice coil isn't wrapped around another material it floats directly attached to the driver almost all the way to the edge of the driver. The magnets are Focals famous stacked individual type they use on premium studio gear. It's very interesting that a near weightless tiny little diaphragm can deliver the goods. It's arriving today so I see what all the fuss is about. Our eardrums are essentially the same thing but in reverse. Is it worth $2,850? If you've never heard perfect sound then you don't know what it sounds like so it's best to remain in the dark unless you want to really, really hear it. It's analogous to vision and mine isn't good. Oddly glasses and contacts can only do so much without surgery. If we could all have superman vision with nothing more than a money and no risk we'd pay for it. There's always some trade off between near and far so it never gets to perfection. The problem with speakers is that the room and space adds changes to the sound and change is bad or not if that's what you want. I thought I should experience near perfect sound and see what it tastes like.

[quotePost id=118191] I did order the Focal Utopia best headphone in the universe to listen to my YC. I like my Beyerdynamic but I wanted a comparison. $4,000 vs $300 vs $40 plus since all I do is play in cans I'll do it in total bliss. The Edifier $40 pair are dang good though but not really that comfortable. I didn't pay full price and with a 5% cash back they were $2,850 more than the YC73. I'm not sure how manufacturing costs work with those but beryllium divers an be compared to gold market prices I heard. Also interesting in an interview is that they were actually designed not as a typical headphone but a near field studio monitor in micro size which is why they dominate. (3) things make the driver perfect: weightless, rigid and dampening. Even the voice coil isn't wrapped around another material it floats directly attached to the driver almost all the way to the edge of the driver. The magnets are Focals famous stacked individual type they use on premium studio gear. It's very interesting that a near weightless tiny little diaphragm can deliver the goods. It's arriving today so I see what all the fuss is about. Our eardrums are essentially the same thing but in reverse. Is it worth $2,850? If you've never heard perfect sound then you don't know what it sounds like so it's best to remain in the dark unless you want to really, really hear it. It's analogous to vision and mine isn't good. Oddly glasses and contacts can only do so much without surgery. If we could all have superman vision with nothing more than a money and no risk we'd pay for it. There's always some trade off between near and far so it never gets to perfection. The problem with speakers is that the room and space adds changes to the sound and change is bad or not if that's what you want. I thought I should experience near perfect sound and see what it tastes like. [/quotePost]

Focal Utopia far from the best....

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/focal-utopia-review-headphone.22103/

Anyway, to equalise them...

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018/Focal%20Utopia

For the very best, second to none, state of the art, try Dan Clark Stealth ...

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/dan-clark-stealth-review-state-of-the-art-headphone.25920/page-78#post-1262436

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/dan-clark-stealth-headphone-review-best-in-the-world-video.25930/

I deeply hate composing on headphones, anything below 27.5 Hz is to be felt from feet to chest.

I'm just going off of a thousand reviews and obviously nothing is purely perfect. Unless you realistically had 3 or 5 of the best in your hand to test for a month you won't or most people won't be able to compare them personally. But I'm betting the utopia is better than 95% which is a good or reasonable bet to take. But my comparison is a broader range the $40 vs $300 vs $4,000 and not 3k vs 4k etc. Not sure what the Dan's cost. Amazon has them also for $4,000 I just looked. Not any reviews yet in Amazon but perhaps they are new. Obviously once the standard is set other companies will be challenged to beat it by human nature. It is always odd that the greatest audiophile who buys and compares everything on the planet will state "these are the best". I can't compare all of them so I have to trust them and if 10 reviewers say the identical thing you have to assume they aren't lying. All subjective I understand but the general consensus is they are nearly the best.

[quotePost id=118198]I'm just going off of a thousand reviews and obviously nothing is purely perfect. Unless you realistically had 3 or 5 of the best in your hand to test for a month you won't or most people won't be able to compare them personally. But I'm betting the utopia is better than 95% which is a good or reasonable bet to take. But my comparison is a broader range the $40 vs $300 vs $4,000 and not 3k vs 4k etc. Not sure what the Dan's cost. Amazon has them also for $4,000 I just looked. Not any reviews yet in Amazon but perhaps they are new. Obviously once the standard is set other companies will be challenged to beat it by human nature. It is always odd that the greatest audiophile who buys and compares everything on the planet will state "these are the best". I can't compare all of them so I have to trust them and if 10 reviewers say the identical thing you have to assume they aren't lying. All subjective I understand but the general consensus is they are nearly the best. [/quotePost]

The thing I would like to grab your attention on is the fact that there are reviewers, then reviewers and reviewers.

I posted two analysis available from a serious reviewer, the ultimate reviewer, that for sure has shaken in our faces the mistakes and misconceptions Hi-Fi has been based upon for years.

Another headphone review, asking US $1499 while showing dynamic range and distortion simply disappointing at higher output levels:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/focal-clear-professional-review.36949/

And one showing the best power amplifier ever built, asking just US $800 and delivering 120 dB SINAD:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-la90-review-integrated-amplifier.33374/

I got mine and listened to them today. The build quality classiness is insane. Carbon fiber and skin soft leather, tones and materials it is the best looking IMO not that looks make sound but it's fun to behold. I'm not going out to buy 3 more $4K phones to compare. I used my YC and each note was like a completely separate instrument was playing each note. Of course YC has EQ on dash so I can adjust to whatever It needs. If you strike the lowest and highest notes hard it doesn't care like one separate instrument or speaker playing them individually. Now for example if phone "A" is the Focal and phone "B" is something else and you have to analyze them with a computer to tell any difference then probably only preference, looks or price will be the determining factor. Unless we can test them side by side and almost no one will do that then you just pick one. Had I seen your suggestion and found one for $2800 I might have gotten that one but at that moment I didn't have that option. Reviewers weren't redirecting to that brand so I knew nothing about it and I googled "best headphones" so apparently the word isn't on the street wide enough yet if a company has surpassed the Utopia. I still might have bought Utopia because of the appearance and craftsmanship. But probably whichever was cheaper used and in the best condition. My Focal box finish was rubbing off but the phones looked new. Anyone know how to decipher the serial number? I don't know if it's the 2020 or original etc.