Last time, IIRC, the YC update came out about 3 months after what was then the latest CP update. They recently did the next CP update, so if they're on a similar schedule, I'd say the next YC update is likely in January.

Was the CP update lame? They tend to advertise "expandability" however it's more like tossing in a few hand-me-downs from Montage and fixing a bug or two.

It's nothing like adding a new synth engine or upgraded technology or 200 voices. It's a tiny bone tossed to customers but sort of false advertising because it's the scale of the update that matters and not the update potential itself.

I know it's a stage so nothing exciting will ever happen with a stage board. I call stage boards disposable. Flip on, play, flip off. They want to to go buy the next one with all the same stuff essentially. It's like my kids sports games, take football for example. Every year it's another $60 and they have to have it. It looks exactly the same to me. I ask them is it still the game of football? Literally they will have 10 years in a row of games all still football. Graphics the same etc. Rebox and resell over and over with one or two new gadgets or features added. Switching to another brand at least feels like you're getting something that's actually new.

We're not getting any younger and synth technology has essentially stopped since the 90s. You can't buy a board that actually has velocity, response and power, sustain of a real piano unless you buy the CP1 to get close. Why in 2021? I play those toy Yamaha boards on the Christmas displays (What for $200) and they sound as good as our $4K boards. We're getting screwed obviously. I know it's about demand but 10 years after CP1 technology we still don't have that on the common stage boards. They can't even replicate a real piano dynamically which is silly.

Was the CP update lame? They tend to advertise "expandability" however it's more like tossing in a few hand-me-downs from Montage and fixing a bug or two.

I don't think the pianos that have been added in updates have been Montage hand-me-downs. This last update didn't do very much, but it did fix what I think was among the most highly requested improvements, more customizable velocity curves. If the YC update can address people's issues with the rotary effect, that alone would be pretty significant.

It's nothing like adding a new synth engine or upgraded technology or 200 voices.

If anyone actually bought a CP (or YC) expecting any of those things, that's on them, not on Yamaha. Yamaha gave no reason for anyone to believe such things would be added. If those are the things you need, you should have bought a board that had them.

Just in general, if a board's interface is tied to dedicated controls rather than being something built around assignable controls and menu screens, I wouldn't expect much in the way of major operational/functional changes to the architecture (i.e. nothing that can't be clearly and easily handled via the existing displays and control layout without creating complications).

I do know the organ is an endless dial so unlimited organs can be added? NOT unless the guts can handle it.

True there's only 2 digits on the internal voices display but there's some space available at least before you get to 99.

They claim stage players don't want to have unlimited voices but like we know stage boards never will be unlimited.

Still it seems such a waste of nice hardware if nothing can be added to it. Great interface that is a dead end.

Your advertised expectations were zero much before your post (yesterday). I'm surprised you hung on so long after what I saw as mentally burning any productive bridges for the YC and more-or-less replacing it with another keyboard you had declared as superior in every way. Which is fine - not all gear speaks to everyone.

I do know the organ is an endless dial so unlimited organs can be added? NOT unless the guts can handle it.

True there's only 2 digits on the internal voices display but there's some space available at least before you get to 99.

Unlimited/99? What organ sounds do you really miss?

(Though since that 2-digit display is used for a letter to indicate type of organ and number to indicate variation, that's a possible 10 variants each of 26 categories so you could have 260, not 99! Not sure that would be consistent with "ease of use," though...)

Really, YC is already pretty competitive in this department. YC has 3 Hammond tonewheel variants, sine waves, a Vox, and a Farfisa. By comparison, among other similarly multi-purpose organ-focussed boards, Nord Electro 6 /Stage 3 have 1 Hammond tonewheel emulation, a Vox, a Farfisa, and 2 pipe organs; Hammond SK Pro has 3 Hammond tonewheel variants, sine waves, a Vox, a Farfisa, an Acetone, and 3 pipe organs; Roland VR09/730 has 2 Hammond tonewheel variants and one transistor (maybe Acetone?); Dexibell J7 Combo has 2 Hammond tonewheel variants, a Vox, a Farfisa, and a pipe, and what look like spots for two downloadable additions. I'm not saying I'd turn my nose up at any new variants Yamaha may choose to add, but I don't see the lack of them as a significant shortcoming, either. In fact, among the 95 YC61 suggestions on Ideascale, not one has been for additional organ sounds! Though sure, adding the YC45 and Acetone models that are already on the Reface YC could be cool, and pipes. But honestly, are you really bugged by the lack of these things? Or are you just looking to complain about things, whether you'd personally care about them or not?

I had even suggested or imagined using the FM capabilities in the organ section as another optional FM voice either preloaded or interface customizable. The sliders could change FM operators in real time like on the Op6 which I also have. So you could build a 3 voice section without an organ in case you needed one. I know it has FM in the voice section but pretty limited at that. Yes add some more organs if possible too as you mentioned. The board and hardware interface are nice so like I said it's a waste if more can't be added. Stage means dead end but true that the organ section greatly expanded on the original line they copied it from. If only the rotary was to everyone's liking.

I can imagine maybe a future Montage EY? as having the YC organ system/sliders on board with more multi-use capabilities. Implementation, easy of use and processing power is where Yamaha always falls short.

It is depressing this lack of interest by Yamaha to release a new OS firmware update for the YC. Apparently Ideascale is useless, I just wasted my time writing more than 7 new suggestions for improvements and new features there. They don't do anything. 🙁

Yes I know and I've said it before. It's purely psychological and antidotal for customers because when you leave a suggestion on a page staged to be relative so you feel like it's relative and you made a difference. You have not.

You leave the site thinking this will work and they will respond and you are hopeful. Money and corporate office drive this train 100% of the time.

How many Yamaha customers actually go there or even know about it?

It's false hope and fake news. Unless 100 or more people demand one particular improvement I doubt any of it is paid attention to.

How many customers does one suggestion actually represent? It's statistics. I fell for it once or twice but quickly realized it means absolutely nothing.

On a positive note there is a very slim chance someone will suggest a quick and easy fix or feature (not costing Yamaha $ while making them heroes) that no one thought about and they follow though on it.

Most likely they follow the competition like when Roland offered the multi-voice morphing and Yamaha copied it by implementing into Montage which was cool.

I played with it but then bought the Fantom and sold my Montage or essentially traded. Me and Montage never really clicked.

I'm an engineer and still didn't understand it. I could use the Fantom without opening the manual.

Yamaha has always had a ease of use and under-powered CPU/DSP problem. I recall that catch phrase "seamless integration" which lead to "total frustration".

To be fair it's a supply and demand game and all about profits. If synths sold like smart phones we'd all be in heaven right now.

Can you imagine the advanced and competitive technology we'd be enjoying?

This is why all we're getting is 1970s technology in a new wrapper every year. Maybe the DSP and memory was improved but it's still that same ole AWM and FM and proprietary compression. Just not enough sales to force the technology to blossom.

Whoever can make the most clever and appealing system for the least cost wins the day.

The SKpro was outside the box because the monosynth layering is really interesting. It brings their fantastic organs to all new life.

I like the YC, it's cheaper but with just a little more creativity it could be been fantastic.

It does compete well with some brands which many remind me. I preordered out of curiosity like many of us do. Loyalist keep them in business.

Now with so many instant and brutally honest YouTube reviews manufactures have to up their game.

No more hiding crap or limitations hoping we won't notice and/or embellishing which Yamaha are masters of.

All is revealed instantly unless it's a dealer wanting to sell you something.

I keep thinking how the YC design & interface is new and fun (screen sucks) but literally after a month I had heard everything it had to offer.

Too bad it can't grow and expand significantly without having to save and buy the next model.

Here's my idea for the next flagship model.

Bring in the CP1 technology for pianos and EPs because AWM2 pianos and EPs mostly suck. They are dead and lifeless. Fantom did it except you can only use one but that's okay.

Bring in the Genos technology on voices that matter. Fantom did it without any limitations and all 16 playing at once if desired.

Add the YC real time knob interfacing, organs system and draw bars keeping the FM system from Montage with touch screen.

Add a monosynth/AN or polysynth section and implement this all without CPU/DSP limitations.

Bring back the on-board, full blown sequencer-workstation platform.

Can it be done? If they wanted to but don't half-ass do it to where it only works half the time like the EX5.

This would be a fantastic beast with excitement on every level.

Having said all that it's all still old technology and mainly a game of implementation and design.

Routinely someone will proclaim either an update will never happen or that Ideascale is hoax only to be disproven by an update. This is always a matter of patience elapsing before the necessary lead-time for a given change. Large ships steer slowly and Yamaha, a multinational conglomerate company, is certainly one of the largest of ships. Change is not instantaneous and you also have to remember the amount of mouths to feed - there are lots of conflicting ideas of where to steer the ship. Between internal (Yamaha) sources and external (teachers, musicians, hobbyists, traditional, modern, different genres, producers, non-players using computers, etc). Ideascale, for me, is not a facade. However, I'm realistic. I know that my great ideas (for me) do always translate into product features. That's the way the cookie crumbles. I cast out my wishes and hopefully I get lucky a time or two. I've already seen some ideas come to fruition. Likely not just because I vocalized them - but more likely because these were already coming from multiple other directions. However, I still feel it's good that more than just the highest profile users have access to Yamaha's R&D department.

That's just me, though. It's not bad necessarily to be pessimistic. Just realize some of the claims will likely eventually be disproven when an update comes. The updates will likely underwhelm a pessimist - so then we will be discussing how the update was a "non-update". But still ...

On the repackage front - I agree that certain legacy is getting long in the tooth. This is a double-edge sword though. Since I started with the EX5R then MO6 (Motif ES6) - I've learned "the Yamaha way" of building patches so Montage was familiar. That was part of why I went with Yamaha at the time I could have went anywhere else - lots of great competitive choices. Sticking with legacy (not changing AWM much at all) meant I could quickly ramp-up and do sound design. That said - there are lots of things I think Yamaha could be slightly more revolutionary and slightly less evolutionary. That's where we get back to the "large ship", though. Going back and reading motifator - you'd think Montage/MODX was designed as the perfect keyboard. The past users were seemingly asking for exactly this machine. I'd say that appears to be success.

Yes I know and I've said it before. It's purely psychological and antidotal for customers because when you leave a suggestion on a page staged to be relative so you feel like it's relative and you made a difference. You have not.

Picking up from what Jason said, I figure it is at least one more source of useful info to Yamaha. It doesn't mean it is the only or even the primary source of ideas for product updates. But the posts do get seen, and so can have some influence. Even if, at a minimum, it merely helps them narrow down which things to focus on out of a list of things they may have already been looking at. But someone is reviewing them, and placing them into different categories (notably "reserve" for things not under consideration vs. "assessment" for things that might be). So converserly, what would be the point of commiting even minimal time and money on ideascale to be nothing but a facade? It certainly doesn't seem like a sales generator... you yourself say "How many Yamaha customers actually go there or even know about it?"

Well it is extremely likely something is on IS and also planned in an update coincidently or is logically the next step. Probably something that should have been there all along.

No way to tell which ideas are a surprise to a company that does this for a living. I'll bet they've anticipated all of them at some point or another.

Many ideas probably come from the competition whether they are competing well or falling behind.

I was surprised the rotary wasn't ever fixed with YC61 prior to the others. It is likely an unfixable issue with the platform they have or their experimentation with it hasn't improved it any.

I never realized it was such a complex issue. If it is better on the Montage as some suggest, something is very odd since they already have one that works better.

Maybe the next update will be "revolutionary". However if they copied the previous CP model and added the FM generator and organ section but didn't add CPU/DSP horses it's likely maxed out for good anyway.

I guess I'm surprised a stage board is even a topic on IS since stage boards are typically all you're gonna get when you get it.

The stage classification implies superior or dominant piano and EPs except it doesn't meet CP1 level dynamics and acoustic fire power.

I think it should have had that technology inside to a large degree. Pianos are hard to distinguish until you fully unleash them.

I suppose it will be 10 more years before the full CP1 technology appears on the standard stage board.

If it is better on the Montage as some suggest, something is very odd since they already have one that works better.

I think I saw somewhere that the additional rotary effect in the YC's effects section is basically the Montage rotary, so maybe it's already there if you want it. Check this video, at from about 38 minutes to 43 minutes for a comparison of the standard and "extra" Leslie on the YC...