Welcome to Yamaha Synth!

Yamaha makes several stereo alternatives to the standard keyboard amplifier, that offer the kind of high fidelity, high definition STEREO sound that will do your stereo CP4 Stage justice.

The items you want to research start with the Yamaha personal PA Systems - which for not much more money than you already have invested will greatly improve your music enjoyment.

StagePas 400i personal PA... 200W per side, 2stereo input channels, 4 mono channels
StagePas600i personal PA... 340W per side, 3stereo input channels, 4 mono channels

The next step up are powered speaker systems. Yamaha just introduced the new DBR line-up:

DBR10 ... 700W each - make excellent monitors
http://youtu.be/Z483niG3QrE

Above that are the DXR-line, either the 8" or 10" would do fine... They are 1100W each

Not sure what your price range is but these will serve you well.

Bad Mister also recommends: the Yamaha MG06 or MG06X mixer... This handy small format mixer, has a metal chassis, simultaneous XLR and quarter inch outputs which make this ideal for when you have a monitor rig on stage (say a pair of DBR10s) and you wish to send a simultaneous stereo feed to the Front of House mixer! Not only does it give you ridiculously good mic preamps, another couple of channels, the 06X provides effects, but functions as a splitter as well (can be mounted on a mic stand). No keyboard player's utility bag should be without one!

Thanks for your reply Bad mister really appreciated...I've tried with stagepass series also and had result not much diffrent with Roland KC. I live at jakarta, indonesia which yamaha indonesia dont have those items that you described 🙁 how about MSR 100/400? Is better than stagepass which the price is above stagepass series. I dont wanna bring too large speakers...wanna bring stereo (pair) of monitor for stereo sound :). Thanks again bad mister

Approx need 8" -10" a pair of speaker 🙂 thx

When using the StagePas it is very important to plug the keyboard into the STEREO Channel (not into the first group of channels). Only the STEREO Channels will give you the sound and quality you are look for from your CP4 Stage. I'll have to come to Jakarta and "eat my hat", if you cannot get the StagePas to sound better than any keyboard amp! 🙂
If you plugged into channels 1 and 2 for example, you are setup in mono. In order to function as true stereo you need to use the Stereo Channels, usually the highest numbered channels on the mixer - you don't say if you tried the StagePas300 or 500 (both discontinued) or the StagePas400i or 600i (both current).

The MSR100 and MSR400 are self powered and can function as monitors for you. Quite a size difference between the MSR100 and 400 so be careful.

Bad Mister, please let the folks at Yamaha know that for a powered speaker or a amp/speaker system like StagePas, the useful stat is not watts, but SPL, which includes the speaker efficiency. We care how loud they are, not how many electrons are going through the wires. Yamaha then might educate the buying public on this. Yeah, I realize they cater to the market, and the market ignorantly focuses on watts.

Watts make sense when you're comparing amps, holding the speakers constant. But when you're picking a whole system, SPL is what matters. And yeah, we know there are issues with SPF, just as there are issues for watts, but it's more information.

You wouldn't talk about the area of a rectangle by only mentioning the length, but that's precisely what talking about watts is, when discussing a powered speaker or amp/speaker combination.

I learned a lot about sound engineering from Yamaha manuals and white papers back in the 70's and 80's. It's sad that they seem to have given up on trying to educate their customers.

Jeff, I respectfully disagree with your outlook on things... Please bare with me as I present an alternate view.

The StagePas is a very convenient personal audio system (P.A.S.) designed for everyone! It is designed for providing sound at board room meetings, for singers and speakers, for acoustic players, small clubs and yes, even keyboard players requiring stereo inputs for their Motifs, electronic drummers drumming, and a partridge in a pear tree (you can even add a SUB WOOFER) - it is designed for a wide range of both technical and completely non-technical users. I think your view of what 'the folks at Yamaha know' may just be from your own particular viewpoint as a keyboardist. You are touching the tail of the elephant and drawing a premature conclusion about the whole animal. 🙂
(Perhaps you cannot see the bigger picture - and why would you?). You obviously understand specifications - but not everyone does or feels the need to. Either way, a quick look at the specs of the StagePas (SPL is listed as the second spec)!

As an alternative to the Personal Audio Systems you will find the Yamaha D-series of powered speakers. (This maybe for the more technical (keyboard player) musician like yourself). I'm surprised you don't see the need for a difference in the marketing language in the presentation of these powered enclosures. It make no sense to talk SPL to the school teacher or person office meeting A/V person in your initial description. They just need a small convenient, easy to setup, personal audio system they can carry down the hall themselves and setup in minutes. If you are more of a technical/specification person, they are always listed for those who know, and you should know where to look for that information. And if you read them you can see immediately that the StagePas is not only good enough for the non-technical school teacher, but can function all the way to small musical ensembles, small club venues and will handle things quite well - high fidelity and power to spare. It even includes RCA inputs for small clubs that have a variety of sound sources including DJ systems. To view it properly I think you need to recognize the product is designed for more than just the keyboardist - in fact, we are just one of the "lifestyles" into which the product can fit.

In the Powered Speaker category the marketing-speak gets more technical because the target audience wants to talk SPL up front ( you will feel more at home with its marketing-speak 🙂 - The D-series (DSR, DXR and DBR) powered speakers are designed for this more sophisticated customer. We still make completel modular systems for the real 'old-school' folks too! Perhaps back in the day, you never realized the many levels of audio gear... but they are even wider now. And Yamaha has several different divisions (3) that deal with professional sound ... and sorry if that is not obvious from the keyboard player's bench.

* _ You have Yamaha home style audio (hifi speakers, receivers, integrated amps, home theatre systems, surround sound, soundbars etc.).
* _ You have the kind of audio systems you find in your typical musical band situation (personal PA Systems, passive and powered speakers, amps, mixers (analog and digital), powered mixers etc., etc.).
* _ And then you have the commercial audio systems (high-end powered and passive speakers systems, arrays, amps, touring gear, install gear, small and very large format digital consoles, post production systems, etc).

Three separate divisions... sold through three separate types of stores even. Yamaha makes speakers for your TV, speakers for your band, and speakers that hang in Carnegie Hall!

As a keyboard player you would be in that second set. The manuals (and you should read all the manuals before you call it "sad" and lament about the good ole days), are of the same level and quality as back in the day. They are just aimed so that communicate with the widest group of the targeted customer base. We now have more targets.

So I guess I totally disagree with what you are saying. 🙂 Just perhaps, you don't see the "other" markets that the StagePas covers. I tend to feel you are looking at the brochure or an ad that is designed to grab attention, - that type of marketing-speak is trying to convey a CONCEPT... look at the pictures (they call that "lifestyle" in the marketing circles) - it kind of gives you a clue about the range of targeted customers. The Yamaha view of making a portable sound system (which typically are designed for speech only) was to expand the concept to include "musical" enhancements (because we're Yamaha) so compressors, effects and even a convenient control that is a music/speech switch (if you are technical snob, you know we are adjusting the EQ and rolling off bass... but it is not required to have that knowledge to run a StagePas)... Concept - it's easy!

Watts, do indeed, make sense when you are comparing amps - all these products have built in amps! And true it does make more sense to talk about SPL but you wind up talking over the head of the target audience (in many cases). I guess you are referring to the bullet points (eye-catchers) it refers to WATTS - well, of course... it does.

I offer you this: it makes sense to talk "Lumens" when talking about light bulbs, it really does - but people still "speak" watts!!! Because they know what that is generally - they are used to it and it is familiar. Go ahead, You talk lumens, you'll look smart but they are basically not understood by the vast majority of the folks you want to communicate with!!!

So if you know specs, then read through the non-technical talk and find what you need . I would very much doubt that Yamaha did not include the SPL specification on any of our systems. If we did forget - please let me know where - I'll make a call and see if I can have that fixed, asap. Seriously, please be specific about where you found or rather didn't find SPL mentioned.

If you know about SPL - you know where to look to find it! 🙂 But I'm so sure Yamaha provided that information - I think you are making a point that does not need to be made. Sorry, Jeff.

Please understand that the audio market has changed and expanded (greatly) since the golden days of the 70's and 80's, and just because you were reading the manuals of the pro audio gear from Yamaha back then (which were, indeed, mini-courses in electronics)... well that still exists.... (it's probably very expensive to print all those manuals and have no one read them 🙂 - all the technical knowledge and white papers can be found ONLINE now!!! More efficient distribution, now... On that thing they call the "innernet"
🙂

We have greatly expanded how we distribute education to our customers
I hope that my effort to educate you on this proves we have not given up on trying to educate our customers, and in fact, this website itself, is a part of that very effort. Is it not?

By the way...
129dB SPL is the spec StagePas 600i -
125dB SPL is the spec for StagePas 400i

I found that in the, er, manual!!! And on the Specification list in the brochure!!! It's the second spec, listed far above the Watts, just FYI.
🙂

Speak "Watts" they know how bright the bulb is... if you market "lumens" - it might be book 'smart', but does it communicate?

Don't hate, investigate... You could not be more wrong in your last statement about Yamaha not educating the customer.

Just FYI... three audio divisions:
Yamaha Electronic Corp: http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/
Yamaha Pro Audio & Combo: http://usa.yamaha.com/products/live_sound/
Yamaha Commercial Audio: http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/northamerica/en_us/

OK, I see your point! I didn't look past the marketing info on the web, and I should have looked at the specs in the manuals. And I'm glad I was wrong about Yamaha's role in education. My bad.

I'm sure you're right about most people not reading the manual details and white papers. Back in the day, I studied them carefully and pored over certain parts. I learned a lot about our friend the decibel from Yamaha!

129 dB SPL for the 600, that's great! It's louder than I would have guessed. Also, a 4dB difference between the two is more than I'd have guessed. Evidently the 600's speakers are more efficient (which isn't too surprising.) Also, they hit a perfect demarcation point. Normally, 3 or 4 dB difference is notable, but it's not a huge difference. However, it's just at the point where those extra 3 or 4 dB makes a big difference depending on application. The 400 wouldn't be loud enough for my use, but would be great for a lot of applications where one isn't competing with electric guitarists. (Frankly, I'd rather "play with" than "compete with" but I play in a lot of blues jams, where sad to say ... well, you know.)

I use a rig I really like: Yamaha EMX5000-12 with a pair of JBL wedges. I didn't have a chance to hear comparable Yamaha wedges when I got the rig, or I might have those instead. In any case the EMX5000 is a killer bit of kit; sad they don't make it any more but I understand the reasons. Other than a (lower-rated-wattage) Soundcraft, it's the only powered mixer I've ever heard that I liked the sound of, and to me it sounds as good as any mixer + power amp I know (that is, any benefits to the latter are beyond the discrimination power of my ears.) Anyway, I calculate that I get 129dB with that rig, and it's a pretty darn loud rig for stage use: loud enough for a too-loud blues jam. If it's too loud on stage for my rig, then it's more than too bloody loud for my ears, and you can count me out!

Meanwhile, I've heard good buzz about the StagePas from my friends in the biz. I haven't ever heard one myself. I'm sure you're safe with your hat-eating bet. 🙂

I only play in my house and i use the Yamaha HS8 Speakers and i like them but always wondered can i get even better ones to enhance my CP4 Sound.

hanny wrote:

Hi...i just bought Cp 4 and use with my Roland KC 550... But really disapointed with the sound. I think CP 4 sound frequency is doesn't match with Roland KC :p the sound is so thin and very lite....so much diffrent with cheap flat monitor in my studio Kurz KS 40a. Does anyone know about good monitor (stereo) for my CP 4 for live situation...? Thank in advance 🙂

Paul wrote:

I only play in my house and i use the Yamaha HS8 Speakers and i like them but always wondered can i get even better ones to enhance my CP4 Sound.

The HS8 speakers are near-field monitors, which means they are optimized for critical listening, as in a Home Studio (HS) environment. That is their purpose - for when you are sitting in the "sweet spot", a equilateral triangle with your speakers.

In general, as you go up the product line (ie, get more expen$ive) the finer the audio quality, I personally recommend the Yamaha MSP7 Studios. The MSP- (Monitor Speaker Professional) - line is one step up from the HS-series. There are several models. The 7 Studios are like a powered updated version of the renowned NS10M. These are my first choice for critical monitoring applications.

The thread began talking about speakers for "live" applications, which generally is handled by another whole class of speakers. Near-field monitors are optimized for accuracy and truth. SR (sound reinforcement) has a larger goal...

For example, the HS8 speakers you have are powered near-field monitors, 8" woofer, 1" dome tweeter, bi-amped 75Watts woofer, 45Watts tweeter...

The Yamaha DXR8 are a "live" application powered sound reinforcement speaker. You have again an 8" cone, a 1" throat compression driver for highs, 1100 Watts bi-amped: 950Watts to the 8" and 150Watts to the high frequency driver...

Could you sit in front of the DXR8's and mix in your living room...? Well sure, why not I guess, but be careful... you can part your hair with the SPL. Obviously, sound reinforcement speakers are meant to entertain a large crowd, and these particular 8" speakers are a favorite of mine when I visit stores to demonstrate synthesizers... They are high fidelity, small, and yet have enough SPL to entertain an entire club full of people. The reaction of people hearing them for the first time is always worth it.. They are jaw droppingly good!

The DXR-series come in 8", 10", 12" and 15" and can do Front Of House, or be used as a personal stage monitor rig in the loudest of performing applications.

Hi Everyone
I'm new the forum. And my question is similar to some of the above. I recently purchased a cp4 and have a pair of msr 400s and still find the sound very thin. I've been connecting directly from cp4 to the msr 400 with the 1/4'' connections and I've also tried it with xlr respectively to left and right....and still the sound is not great. It can be loud but not that pleasant. What am I doing wrong??? It seems pretty straight forward to me. Is there special kind of cables to use that I'm not aware of.

Another thing connecting just one mrs 400 via the 1/4'' (left side) is definitely not good it seems that I need 2 speakers to make it sound just a bit better.

Connecting via XLRs.....do I have to connect both L&R and use 2 speakers or is there a way to use only 1 XLR and 1 speaker. (It can be a pain to carry 2 MSR 400s each time I go out).

Hope I was not too confusing .
I have to get this resolved, please help
Marc

Welcome to the Forums, Marc!

I have played the CP4 Stage through a pair of MSR400s and the sound was not "thin".

What am I doing wrong???

It is almost impossible to try to tell you what you might be doing wrong... Solving an audio issue without actually hearing the problem is just a guessing game.

"Thin" is an audio term used to describe a sound, and is best addressed with EQ. So start there. Set the EQ Controls on the MSR400 to twelve o'clock... This is the "0" position. Set the 5-band EQ sliders on the front panel of he CP4 Stage so they are all in the center position.

Try GainStaging the system so that the Input Sensitivity control on the back panel of the MSR400s is set to the twelve o'clock position - which reads "+4" when you're using XLR (balanced) cables to connect your instrument. And if you are using 1/4" (unbalanced) cables you want to set this to about the 1 or 2 o'clock position... this will match the output of your CP4 STAGE.

This is the proper starting point. Resist the urge to turn the MSR400 LEVEL control past the recommended positions. Most folks think this is a Volume control... And while it does affect Volume (output Level), it is properly referred to as the INPUT SENSITIVITY control. You use it to match the output level of the connected device. Your CP4 Stage is considered a "Line" level device. (It is not a Microphone! -36dB) sounds strange to say but I would bet 90% of folks set this to the Mic Level setting... I don't know why, the CP4 Stage doesn't look anything like a Microphone)
🙂

Adjust you performing Volume from the CP4 Stage's front panel Volume knob.

If you are still having "thin" issues take it to your local music store and ask someone in the Live Sound department to help you. Bring your cables, they can ensure you have proper Signal cables.

Hope that helps.

BTW- yes you need to connect your CP4 Stage in Stereo to take advantage of its full fidelity. And of course, it's more work. We humans are designed with two ears - because life itself is in stereo. Stereo, it's worth it!
I'd sooner leave one of my ears home... 🙂

Hi Bad Mister

Thanks for the quick reply,

Addressing my issues without seeing the actual thing is difficult, I do agree. However your advice has certainly improved my sound. Starting out in the "0" position and tweaking from that point. The sound has improved tremendously just by adjusting the Input Sensitivity Control to the 2 o'clock position with the 1/4'' cable (I was to lean on that one....probably 11 or 12 o'clock). I've yet to try with the XLRs but I trust what you say.
At the risk of sounding too green...like most of us mortals, I thought it was the level control. You see, matching the level output of the cp4...that I never knew how important that was. Nor did I know or still don't know where to get that info. For future reference where do I get that info to match the 'line device' output ....or is it suppose to be common knowledge or a "trade secret". It certainly makes a lot sense once you know it.

Is the cp4 best used with 2 speakers instead of one???

Just one more issue for a good sound out the cp4 using a mixer....I can't seem to find that info anywhere
In a small live gig, if I plug into a mixer, for example, MG124CX, I would plug in the cp4 (using 1/4'') 5/6 to 11/12 location. I believe the MSR 400 setup remains the same.
Now to start at a basic or "0" position.....where does the cp4 volume knob should be compared to the gain knob of the mixer which one would you advise to adjust first or the proper sequence of that particular adjustment.

Again many thanks Bad Mister as your input is so much appreciated

Marc

Sorry about the length, but it is subject near and dear to my heart, and one I know comes up for many musicians... Particularly us keyboardist. Hope it is helpful. Thank you for the question.

Addressing my issues without seeing the actual thing is difficult, I do agree. However your advice has certainly improved my sound. Starting out in the "0" position and tweaking from that point. The sound has improved tremendously just by adjusting the Input Sensitivity Control to the 2 o'clock position with the 1/4'' cable (I was to lean on that one....probably 11 or 12 o'clock). I've yet to try with the XLRs but I trust what you say.

By not allowing MSR's amplifier to match the incoming signal you were reducing the chance for it to work. Amplifiers, contrary to popular belief, are putting out their rated output even when no program is passing through them; GainStaging allows you to make each component work at its capacity.

At the risk of sounding too green...like most of us mortals, I thought it was the level control.

It does affect Level, but how you go about setting the knob is critical, not arbitrary. You want to know you are giving it enough signal to do its job. Not too little, not too much. Gain affects Volume, but is not the same thing... See below.

You see, matching the level output of the cp4...that I never knew how important that was. Nor did I know or still don't know where to get that info.

Most Yamaha audio products have an Owner's Manual that is a mini-course in Audio. Check out the Manual for the MG124CX!

For future reference where do I get that info to match the 'line device' output ....or is it suppose to be common knowledge or a "trade secret". It certainly makes a lot sense once you know it.

I'm a big believer in not making professional audio gear stupid simple (guitar amps, for example, are like dumbed down a bit: the treble, mid-range, bass controls are marked 0-10 so as not to confuse them :).... But it promotes wrong thinking - that you turn everything in one direction: UP. Consumer (home stereo stuff) is mandated to be simple, I get this... But as musicians, we should learn the technical stuff, just so. Know the rules then you can artfully break them.

For example, it is a natural tendency to listen to sound and judge it by what you are not getting enough of... It far better to listen to sound and judge it by - what am I getting too much of. Working backwards, if you will. There is a theoretical maximum, all your instruments must work under that maximum, this is why a mixer has "faders" - they are not called "boosters". Optimize the input gain (absolute/scientific), then use the fader to allow just enough (the subjective) level to satisfy your ear... To make a musical mix.
🙂

Is the cp4 best used with 2 speakers instead of one???

Yes. Does music sound best with two ears, instead of just one? Of course it does... Particularly when the sound the instrument is outputting is a stereo signal. Many of the Voices in the CP4 Stage are prepared from stereo waveforms... You will see "St" as a suffix in the name of these Voices. "Mn" are those setup in Mono. Some musicians do not hear this difference (as impossible as this may sound) ... I contend they simply are not listening close enough, or have already damaged their hearing beyond the point of no return! Once you know to listen for it you will hear the difference, trust me.

You will hear the argument that many "pro" tours do not use stereo... Yes it is more difficult, yes, it means humping more gear around, that's why not everyone does it. It has nothing to do with being "pro" ..in fact, if not for logistics, of course they would operate in stereo. Music is stereo, life itself is in stereo. I contend a "pro" tour is defined by not cutting corners, but delivering the best sound available. Summing stereo to mono can be a big no-no. If you absolutely can't operate in stereo, please set up to properly use Mono. Don't just send half the signal. If you listen closely the low end of the piano is more present in the left speaker and the high notes more present in the right speaker... The Rotating Speaker rotates via stereo... It's does 'something' summed to mono, but not what you really want.. Etc.

Just one more issue for a good sound out the cp4 using a mixer....I can't seem to find that info anywhere
In a small live gig, if I plug into a mixer, for example, MG124CX, I would plug in the cp4 (using 1/4'') 5/6 to 11/12 location. I believe the MSR 400 setup remains the same.

Yes a proper mixer will enhance your sound. Not only does a decent mixer allow you to plug in more inputs, it has the ability to GainStage a wider variety of inputs. While the little back panel mixer on the MSR400's Input Sensitivity is rated to handle signals as weak as -36dBu, this is not as adjustable as the MG124CX... Which can handle even the weakest of microphone signals... All the way down to -60dBu. The XLR input is the MIC input with a specific range of sensitivity (-16 through -60). The 1/4" inputs are LINE with a specific range of sensitivity (+10 through -34)

A typical dynamic microphone, as common knowledge should tell you, is a very weak signal... It works on a small magnet attached to a thin diaphragm moving back and forth between a coil of wires... This causes (induces) a very small amount of electrical current to flow. It is not a powerful signal and needs the next Stage in the signal flow to boost that signal (more than 100 times). That is the role of the Pre-amp: To prepare the level of that signal for the next stage... The classic SM58 is rated at about -52dB so having the GAIN knob on the MG124CX that reaches down as far as -60dBu means you can match the input sensitivity of your typical dynamic microphone with that mixer. Look at the scale on the Gain knob on your MG124CX - notice you turn the knob fully up, fully clockwise to match the weakest of signals. The weak signals need MORE work from the pre-amplifier. Your keyboard's output is much stronger (more than 100 times stronger) than the mic and therefore needs less work from that pre-amplifier.

If, for example, you plugged the CP4 STAGE into channels of the MG124CX you would be wrong to turn the Gain up to match the -60dBu setting or the -34dBu setting. In fact, your ears and eyes would tell you that's wrong. Red lights would appear, horrible distortion would occur, it would sound like complete garbage. Your CP4 is outputting a signal too strong for that Input Sensitivity setting. You would set that Gain knob to "match" the rated output of the device using that channel. This way you can use the front panel knob of the instrument to adjust your listen volume ("volume" being what we as humans call air molecules banging into each other). Volume is subjective - requires a human with ears... It requires speakers and ears. Gain is not subjective, it is scientific and does not require ears... Nor does it require speakers. A meter or Peak light can indicate Gain. Gain affects Volume, but is different. Volume moves air. gain moves meters. Turning up Gain will increase Volume if and when speakers are attached. Make sense?

You can measure gain even in the absence of volume.

(Use two 1/4" cables connecting the CP4 Stage's unbalanced output to the LINE level inputs of a stereo channel, as you've properly stated. Do not connect the XLR outputs of the CP4 Stage to the MIC Inputs of the MG124CX... as you now know this would be wrong... +4dBu Output, does not fall between -16 and -60dBu that the mixers XLR input is looking for... If you wish to use the Balanced Outputs of the CP4 Stage to the channels of the MG124CX... Get the proper cables: two XLR-to-TRS
TRS = 1/4" Tip-Ring-Sleeve. The 1/4" LINE inputs on the MG124CX can receive balanced or unbalanced signals, and are rated to properly receive (match) the CP4 Stage's +4 output.
Make sense?

Now to start at a basic or "0" position.....where does the cp4 volume knob should be compared to the gain knob of the mixer which one would you advise to adjust first or the proper sequence of that particular adjustment.

You set the Gain knob on the mixer to the rated sensitivity of the incoming signal... The Balanced Outputs of the CP4 Stage are rated at +4dBu... You can anticipate that this is good general setting for GainStaging it's signal... You will not, in general, be able to overload or distort that mixer channel. You can freely set your front panel control for the CP4 Stage as you require. The Gain setting on the mixer ensures you will not be able to overload that channel's input.

The Main STEREO outputs of the MG124CX are rated at +4dBu. Connect them to your MSR400's set to an Input Sensitivity of +4dBu.

You now have happy components throughout your chain. If you are now too loud for the room (I often have to remind musicians, yes you can be TOO LOUD for your audience) you can turn down.
🙂

We as musicians intuitively understand OVERLOADING a device's input stage and the grotesque, distorted sound that this makes, but not delivering enough signal to an amplifier can cause unpleasant sound results, as well. While our description -the words we use to describe this are not as clear... It can still degrade overall performance of your system. "Thin", "wimpy", "weak", "no presence" etc., etc., are all words I've heard to describe this situation. In general, we are just not happy with the sound. We are not letting the gear do its job.

The "0" (zeroing) of the system is a good place to start. You can tweak things from there, but not without care. Please recognize that the source (CP4 Stage, in the case) is not always outputting exactly +4dBu at all times... It will depend on what you are playing, how energetically you are playing, etc. We are ballparking the output based on the typical use case, with the theoretical maximum always, safely, a bit out of reach.

Only guitar players think distortion is a good thing, is the joke I used to tell in audio class. They've turned distortion into a desired thing - but they are "special" people, those guitar players are... 🙂 They will purposefully overload the next stage in the signal path and tell you it sounds good... Listen to anything long enough I guess it can start to sound good... But in general, you want to properly GainStage your audio pathway so that each successive component can contribute to the well being of your musical signals.

A good mixer will not just pass signal, it should give you more options and actually enhance your signal. The quality of the pre-amp in any mixer will be very important.

In general, any mixer can output noise. The key is to know when the noise is component failure, and when the noise is the fault of the operator. Sound engineers have an expression GIGO... Garbage In, Garbage Out.

Those who too quickly blame the gear are usually wrong. If you don't allow each stage of the signal path to be optimized, it is not the gear's fault... It is operator error.

If you routinely turn an amplifier all-the-way-up... You couldn't be more wrong. Sure it increase output level, but up with it comes all the noise. Send enough signal into the amp so that it can do some work, not all of the work.

Think about your home stereo system (as a typical "consumer" product), do you ever turn the level knob all-the-way-up... ? No. The noise floor would be horrific. Your input devices to that home integrated amplifier might include a turntable, a tape deck, a television, a radio tuner, CD player, etc., etc. Each with its own rated output... Which you match intuitively by setting the front panel knob to a comfortable listen level. Because typically many of the devices you plug into this consumer product have fixed output levels... They are purposefully making it easy... Assuming everyone knows how to adjust for volume. The GainStaging takes place when plug the device into its own clearly labeled INPUT jacks!!!

Check the MG124CX manual it will have some of this stuff in there... I simply translate it into everyday terms and give examples. I got into the technical stuff because when I was a young musician I wanted to KNOW how to fix the sound MYSELF.
🙂

Hope that helps.

I cannot hope to match Bad Misters's technical explanation of how to maintain the great Yamaha stereo piano sounds when using powered speakers. However you might be interested in my own personal battle with this issue. Sorry for the length!

For many years I had played a P200 and then a CP33 at home through a pair of powered monitors without a mixer and had been very happy with the sound. Then I started to play a few simple gigs and in 2011 my wife bought me a Bois L1 Compact but I was bewildered because the stereo pianos sounded terrible! After a lot of research on the internet I realized that stereo piano samples are quite different from other instruments in that they are produced in stereo and must be played back in stereo to maintain the sound. All other instrument sounds are mono in nature - they originate from a point source like a guitar or a trumpet, whereas a piano sound is produced over a wider space and our ears are used to listening to pianos in this way.

If you take this carefully recorded stereo sound and combine the channels (sum to mono) you get "phase cancellation" i.e. some of the frequencies on the left and right cancel each other out and the result is a thin. reedy sound. The comparison is particularly onerous because we are all used to listening through phones which have perfect separation and the sound is amazing. In my case I bought a second Bose l1 Compact (another $1000!), ran the L & R line outputs to separate Bose and voila - the great sound returned.

While I was sorting this out many professional performers kept telling me that stereo was a waste of time because of the room effects i.e. only a couple of people sitting in the perfect spot would be able to hear the stereo. I eventually realized that my problem had nothing to do with the stereo effect on the audience, it was all about not degrading the basic piano sound produced from my keyboard. Also it applied to the piano sound only - not to any other instruments.

Sorry if this explanation is not scientifically accurate but it makes sense to me.

Then a bought a mixer (an A&H ZED-10FX) and my problems started again. To cut a long story short, it's not enough to pass the piano outputs through separate mixer channels to the speaker/amps. To maintain the piano sound quality you must pan the left channel fully left and the right channel fully right. Also make sure your particular mixer isn't doing any "sum to mono" that you are unaware of. The ZED-10FX sums to mono if the phone "listen" buttons are pressed - confirmed by A & H. That one took another couple of weeks to sort out.

The fact that this problem keeps surfacing year after year tells me that the keyboard makers need to come clean on this issue in all their promotional material and ads. When you see a Yamaha You Tube video demonstrating say the CP4/CP40, the video should state openly that you need to play back in stereo to get the same great sound.

Regards
Tony