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My XS6 sounds terrible with new added FW 16e! Help!.

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Hi every body!.
I recently bought a fw 16e expansion board for my Xs6.I installed the latest driver from the Yamaha site.
I run Cubase Pro 8.5 on a Dell with dual Xeon,12 cores and 64 Gb of Ram.
After years of running my Xs on a midi cable I decided to try the expansion to speed up the multi audio recording process.
Every thing seems to be in place but the sound!.It does not matter which output I use,either the Motif main out or the fw output or even the Mbox2 outputs the sounds skips and stutters like when you have a hi buffer count or your pc have no power.
I tried changing the Yamaha fw driver to the ASIO4All driver that i always use and the sound is the same.
As soon as i unplug the firewire cable and put on the midi cable every thing sounds great again.
Cubase has presets projects for the Xs that routs every thing for you,even there the sounds is horrible!,I keep hearing this double sounds like pressing two keys at the same time.
Honestly I thought it was easier since the manual says the mlan connection will take care of every thing.
I just want to be able to record multiple audio tracks from the Motif into Cubase.am I doing something wrong?.
Is there a correct way to set up all these?.
I have 30 days to return the board,and i don't want to do it so if any body can help me it'll be greatly appreciated since time is running.
Thanks!

 
Posted : 08/07/2016 7:02 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

...if any body can help me it'll be greatly appreciated since time is running.

We can help you. The FW16E properly configured will be a startling improvement on how you used to work.

Please follow along carefully. If I'm unclear on anything please ask. Some of things you've tried are completely wrong and will NOT work. We will need to eliminate those. Once connected properly with the proper drivers, we can then evaluate if there is a problem. But trust me and my years of experience with this very setup, once we setup things properly, it is then and only then that we can determine where things are and if anything else need be done.

Take the mbox2 and set it aside, it will not be a part of this setup at all. (Cubase allows you to "hot swap" drivers if you prefer to record something through it at a later time, but for our initial setup please remove it from the setup.
Also, the FW16E will not work with ASIO4ALL, do not use that, use only the Yamaha Steinberg FW driver (because it handles both AUDIO and MIDI via FW for the XS, ASIO4ALL does not, cannot)

Connect the MAIN LEFT/RIGHT audio outputs of the Motif XS6 to your Monitor Speakers. The FW16E will act as your computers audio interface.

Instead of being an external device (like the mbox2) this audio interface gets placed into your Motif XS, don't let this confuse you. This is so you don't have to run 22 audio cables between the XS and the audio interface.

Explanation: when you use an audio interface that is external you connect your instrument to it, it then converts the signal and prepares for the computer. With you mbox2 you would connect just 2 cables to the interface and 2 cables from the interface to your speaker system. With the FW16E the 16 outputs from the XS and 6 returns that will come from the computer are connected with the single FW connection. Instead of 16 analog outputs from the XS that routing takes place between the XS and the expansion board. (And it actually cost less than the 16 output cables it replaces). The computer will return three separate stereo mixes from Cubase to the XS via the FW cable..

You still need analog cables (just 2) to connect the Motif XS to your sound system.

Download and install the following items specifically (at Yamaha we make tons of drivers for tons of products, "the latest" is not good enough information, be specific, because "the latest" may not always refer to your product or your situation!):

Driver: Yamaha Steinberg FW Driver v.1.6.6 for Windows (64-bit)
Software: Motif XS Extension ver 1.6.1 for Windows
Software: Motif XS EDITOR Standalone/VST ver 1.6.4 for Windows

And verify that your Motif XS firmware is version 1.60.x - you do so by pressing [UTILITY]
While in Utility mode hold the following three buttons: [UTILITY] + [UP CURSOR] + [F1]
if necessary download
Firmware: Motif XS Updater version 1.60
It comes zipped with instructions, and it is highly recommended to read them twice, (first time just so, second follow them)

You do not need any IEEE1394 firmware update (the FW16E is updated), you do not need any USB-MIDI driver, the Yamaha Steinberg FE takes care of Midi and audio... You need just what I've listed above.

Let us know, when you have these and they are successfully installed.

 
Posted : 08/07/2016 8:36 pm
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Topic starter
 

Thanks for your reply.
I have now installed the extension and the standalone version exactly the way you described.
My Xs firmware is updated and working fine version 1.60
Mbox is out and my xs is connected to my monitors.
FW 16e plugged in via firewire to my pc.
Do I go it alone or wait for your instructions?.
Thanks again.

 
Posted : 10/07/2016 1:23 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

Okay, excellent.

The Yamaha Steinberg FW driver (YSFW) handles both MIDI and audio communication. You make settings for each in the Motif XS.

Press [UTILITY]
Press [F1] GENERAL
Press [SF4] AUTO LOAD
Ensure that the IEEE1394 Driver = FW

If not already set to "FW", change the setting, then press [STORE] to write this preference to your instrument's Flash ROM.

You will need to reboot the Motif XS for this setting to take place. Once stored, however, your unit will have this setting as part of your system settings from this point on.

Next, you want to make sure that the MIDI communication is set to mLAN:
Press [UTILITY]
Press [F5] CONTROL
Press [SF2] MIDI
Ensure that the MIDI IN/OUT = mLAN
Press [STORE] to write this preference to your instrument's Flash ROM.

These preferences will persist, and will remain until you manually change them or you load in an ALL data file with different SYSTEM settings. So every File you make from this point forward will have these preferences as your setup. (Tip: when loading older ALL data files use the "ALL without System" option to avoid having to reset your preferences).

On the Computer side you need to launch Cubase and verify your setup

Launch Cubase

You may be asked to select your audio interface ASIO driver... as it may detect the Motif XS connected (if so, select the YSFW driver) if not do not worry. We can manually set things up...

Go to DEVICES > DEVICE SETUP… > MIDI > MIDI Port Setup
Here you will be able to select the device(s) that will be your MIDI controller. Typically, this is either your Motif XS keyboard (referred to as MIDI Port = "Motif XS MAIN") or any MIDI controller connected to its back panel MIDI IN jack (referred to as MIDI Port = "Motif XS MIDI IN").

Make sure that only these devices are marked in the “In ‘All Inputs’” column:

You do not want to mark the "Motif XS REMOTE" port in the "In ‘All Inputs’" column. Remote Control commands must be kept discreet, so as not to interfere with normal music performance. In the next folder “REMOTE DEVICES” highlight the Motif XS item. It will be assigned as your Remote Control device and the MIDI IN and MIDI OUT ports will be assigned.

Move down to the VST AUDIO SYSTEM item and verify that the "Yamaha Steinberg FW" is selected as the ASIO DRIVER.

The option just below VST AUDIO SYSTEM will be “Yamaha Steinberg FW”. If you highlight that you will see the CONTROL PANEL where you can set your buffer size.

If you click on the "Control Panel" button on this screen it will open the Motif XS communication panel which should look something like this: (It should have three panels, the middle one identifying your Motif XS; if not, let us know). Also here you see the Motif XS's 16 Outputs, seen from Cubase's perspective as INPUTS (yellow) and the 6 returns to the Motif XS (blue). The "Status" active/inactive is an indication of whether or not you currently have something assigned to theses buses.

This will complete your basic setup for Cubase. These settings will persist - so when you return things should return to your preferred setup.

Let us know... If you are getting Clicks and Pops, this can be fixed either by using the CONTROL PANEL and setting the BUFFER SIZE so that you do not. The idea is to set the BUFFER SIZE as small as possible. The "as possible" is determined by whether or not you are getting CLICKS and POPS, they represent the computer not being able to deliver all of the audio in a packet without a problem.

It is like a bucket brigade... where you are filling buckets with audio (instead of water)... the idea is to put enough in each bucket (as much as possible) without spilling any. A spill is manifested as a click or pop. So you want to maximize the amount of audio in each bucket without spilling any. So the BUFFER SIZE is critical. With Windows computers, Yamaha includes a special UTILITY program that can help set the BUFFER SIZE at a deeper level. If you are unable to find a sweet setting for the BUFFER SIZE (where you are getting absolutely no clicks or pops), let us know, and we will move to the special utility program (if and only if necessary) it will assist you in setting a buffer size that will work for your computer.

Let us know. We have not dealt with the Editor VST, but we'll leave that for the next installment.

 
Posted : 10/07/2016 12:38 pm
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New Member
Topic starter
 

Hi,Thanks again for your help!.
I did every thing you told me the same way you explained above.
It's all connected but the clicks and pops continued.
Now i found that within the downloaded driver file,there is a small utility where you can change the buffer size from small,(default) to medium or large.
By changing the size to large all clicks and pops are gone,with no delays when playing my keys.
Now every thing is rocking and the sound is awesome.
I'm really enjoying my Xs now.
Now on to the vst editor:What would be the best way to route the Motif so I can render my midi tracks to audio without having to pull group channels?.
And if is not too much to ask,is there a way that i can be playing the Motif on midi tracks and seeing the audio tracks sound for each midi track in real time?.
In other words,i pull midi track 01 on Motif vst and hear the sound on audio track 01 and so on and so forth?.
AGAIN THANKS A LOT FOR YOUR TIME!, you have been a great help.

 
Posted : 15/07/2016 3:32 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12304
 

Excellent!

And if is not too much to ask,is there a way that i can be playing the Motif on midi tracks and seeing the audio tracks sound for each midi track in real time?

Yes, there is... We will need to setup the "Yamaha Motif XS Editor VST". This will allow you to creat MIDI tracks in Cubase that will echo (Thru) back to the XS hardware which will send audio back to Cubase via the special VST routing situation.

Download and install the Yamaha Motif XS Editor Standalone/VST version 1.6.4 for Windows.

Then launch Cubase... The Editor VST will be launched inside of Cubase. We will route each MIDI Track you create to the Editor's MIDI IN, instead of to the Motif XS itself. By routing a track to the Editor VST's MIDI input we use the Editor as the Motif XS's representative inside of Cubase.

Here's how:
Go to DEVICES > VST INSTRUMENTS > you will see a list of available VST Instruments... Under the EXTERNAL heading you will find the "Motif XS VST".
When you select this, you will be asked if you wish to create a MIDI Track for this VSTi.
Create the Track.
You will observe that this MIDI Track will be routed so the Midi In is "All MIDI Inputs"
The Midi Out will be routed to "Yamaha Motif XS VST Midi In"
Each additional track you create will also (should also) be routed to the "Motif XS VST Midi In" which is the Editor.

When you play on the XS keyboard the keyboard graphic in the Editor will animate to show that MIDI is indeed routing through the Editor VST.

On the Editor VST go to FILE > Setup > Set the audio ports.

To setup the AUDIO Outputs. Go to FILE > VSTi Setup > Set the audio Returns
If you click AUTO the Editor will assign all of the Audio Buses:

The created VST INSTRUMENT folder has an "Automation Lane", and a Virtual "Audio Lane" (Motif XS VST) and below that the MIDI Track. the AUDIO LANE is where the Motif XS "RETURNS" audio to Cubase. It is called "virtual" because you hearing what 'will be' rendered as audio in the separate Cubase operation called EXPORT > AUDIO MIXDOWN.

When you play the XS you will see the MIDI activity, the keyboard graphic respond, and finally Audio Returning through the VST AUDIO LANE.

In the Editor (lower left corner) is the mLAN Monitor Setup...

By setting the mLAN MONITOR parameter to “With PC” you hear the audio generated by the Motif XS only after it travels through Cubase (through the audio busing of the VST Editor). The reason for this is so you can hear any processing that we add in Cubase.

However, if you are not processing the signal with a DAW based Plug-in, you might opt to monitor the Motif XS "direct" (zero latency). In such a case, select the "PC Drct" option. This will allow the Motif XS to send its audio directly to its own output (in addition to going to the computer). To prevent monitoring the signal twice you should mute the Audio Lane (return).

PLEASE Mute the Audio Lane to avoid doubling the sound.. When you are monitoring the Direct signal, there is no need to monitor the virtual Audio Lane (which is the same signal after it has been received by the computer) which is a few milliseconds behind the Direct signal - so to avoid the slight doubling effect press the M (mute) on the Motif XS VST audio Lane during recording.

 
Posted : 15/07/2016 10:02 pm
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