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Good afternoon all.
I am currently using a Montage 7 and Yamaha Motif XF6 as a secondary keyboard. When playing gigs, I usually play as a one man band with a vocalist or on some occasions a guitarist.
As such I create performances on the Montage to simulate an entire band. I usually have 4-8 voices playing arpeggios simulating the different instruments (drums, bass, etc) and use a few voices for the leads parts of the songs. I use scenes to switch between different variations of the arps, to perform breaks and to switch between lead voices in one go. I've created many custom performances which also contain some custom instruments / drum kits I've created using the sample slicer on the Motif, or sampled with Sample robot, and import these into the Montage.
The Montage works brilliantly to such an extent that I don't even carry a second board out on gigs anymore. However the problem is that the keyboard is too big, heavy and also too expensive to carry to some venues.
I am contemplating selling the Motif XF 6 and getting a MODX 6+ instead as the MODX seems to share the same platform as the Montage in addition to being smaller and lighter.
I have a few questions around this:
1. I am thinking about working solely on the Montage in terms of creating performances, exporting the user data area and importing this into the MODX+. In that way both keyboards can remain in sync and I can use either interchangeably. Are there any limitations as pertains to importing Montage user data on the MODX?
2. I've seen that the polyphony has increased on the MODX+. In this regard, I'm not sure if the MODX+ can had the same number of simultaneous arps playing at the same time as the Montage i.e 4-8 voices with individual arps simultaneously?
3. None of the music stores around me have the MODX+ in stock and I need to pay a deposit for them to order the keyboard. So I will not be able to play the keyboard before purchase. In terms of playability / controls, is there a significant difference between the Montage and MODX+?
4. My last question is around the scene functionality and applies to both the MODX+ and Montage. I use the scene function to switch between arps, some of the scenes function as breaks. Is it possible to program the scene buttons to automatically switch after one bar to another scene e.g. press scene button 4, play for one bar and then automatically switch to scene 2? In this way the behavior emulates the break / fill button which you would normally find on arranger keyboards.
Thank you in advance for reading my post and for any assistance rendered.
Posted : 10/01/2023 12:07 pm
I'd strongly suggest trying to find a second hand Montage6.
The MODX has a vastly inferior keyboard, and all the controls feel vastly less sure. Even the touchscreen feels worse, somehow.
It's hard to describe how much of step down the keyboard is. It's so bad you'll want to get something else to drive it live, after you've been playing the Montage for so long.
Worse than that, you can't get nearly as much dynamic range out of the MODX keyboard, because it's hard hitting dynamics are HIT IT TILL YOUR FINGERS HURT to get at that last (and often best) part of velocity dynamics... yes... regardless of how much honing you do of the values... which all compromise dynamic response to get at that upper velocity range.
Posted : 10/01/2023 3:35 pm
1) MODX+ can import Montage user data
2) Arp playback will be the same
3) Playability of the keyboard itself was highlighted by Andrew. I think this is a YMMV item. Not having access to MODX+ means you cannot discover this on your own. That said, if you use the Motif XF as your main keyboard controller and Montage (or later MODX+ ) as a slave then I don't think this is impacted in the same way. In other words, I think the two would respond the same way to a master controller.
Otherwise, there are less buttons on MODX+. I'm not sure what you use of Montage's right-hand buttons (arp select, part select, etc). If you don't use these then you won't miss them. It's clear you use scenes and the limitation with MODX+ is that there will only be 4 scene buttons in front of you rather than 8 in Montage. To access the other bank of 4 scenes - you need to press a second button. Therefore this will be an extra demand on you if you use more than 4 scene buttons currently.
4) There's not a built-in facility to chain scenes for automatic switching. Scenes can be switched with CC values so an external controller could supply these messages. I'm not sure if recording the scene CC inside an ARP can switch scenes or not. Expect some heavy lifting to get this working.
Posted : 10/01/2023 4:59 pm
3. None of the music stores around me have the MODX+ in stock and I need to pay a deposit for them to order the keyboard. So I will not be able to play the keyboard before purchase. In terms of playability / controls, is there a significant difference between the Montage and MODX+?
Going from Montage to Modx+/Modx you should definitely do a 'hands on' before making a final purchase.
That said many retailers have a 30/45 day return policy with either NO return fee or a small one. The reasons can include that you just don't like it.
I suggest you order one, try it and then make your decision about whether to keep it.
You should also be aware that the audio interface is different between a Montage and a Modx+/Modx. So USB to HOST to a daw you don't have as many simultaneous USB channels for recording. So recordings that use large numbers of parts will need to be done in multiple passes.
Is it possible to program the scene buttons to automatically switch after one bar to another scene e.g. press scene button 4, play for one bar and then automatically switch to scene 2?
No - a scene is just a set of values. Like saving the positions of men on a chess board so you can return to that same board setup later. Scenes don't have any intelligence.
But you can create one or more user arps that either:
1. change to a scene and end
2. change to different scenes as you reach different measures/positions in the song.
#1 - create a user arp 'scene4' where you do nothing but press the scene 4 button immediately. Then attach that arp to a drum key that you don't use. Hitting that drum (after proper setup (e.g. Delay2 = HOLD and Rcv Note Off) will play that single action arpeggio and switch to scene 4.
#2 - record an entire 'song' that matches your song measure-by-measure where the entire song is nothing but YOU pressing the scene button you want for that section.
Then attach that song to your preformance.
Posted : 10/01/2023 9:13 pm
I'm not sure if recording the scene CC inside an ARP can switch scenes or not.
Yes it can. And the '16 different note' limit doesn't apply since CCs are not notes. Of course there are only 8 different scenes anyway.
Posted : 10/01/2023 9:15 pm
On question 4... auto changing scenes.... this is what the Pattern Sequencer is best at.
The Pattern Sequencer is misnomered. It's not a very good Pattern Sequencer, it's a terrible note sequencer, but it's a good Scene Sequencer.
You can program it, without recording anything into the Pattern Sequencer, to switch Scenes at any number of bar intervals you like, as often as you like, throughout your 8 Scenes.
The workflow for this is epically byzantine, and counter intuitive the first 5000 times you do it:
But for live usage, this is probably the biggest and best feature of the MODX/Montage... except for everything about making and managing your Patterns.
Good luck! And if you have any questions about this, fire away. I've messed with this more than I care to recall, and had it mess with me a lot, too.
Posted : 11/01/2023 6:48 am
In Russia... Keyboard play you!!!
I have read, adept Keyboard players do not have a problem with the MODX... they just get on with it. On the other hand, "precious pianists" would likely vomit. Definitely try before you buy.
Velocity based Factory Presets (on the MODX) were created and calibrated on the entirely different Montage Keyboard.
There's a gap here. The global "Utility" Keyboard response curves are a waste of time. The problem is the default MODX Velocity sensitivity is a lot lower than the Montage.
You CAN adjust this sensitivity... but only Per Performance... not Globally. To be polite, Yamaha are well aware of this, but no action has been taken so far. Ideally, a Global Keyboard Calibration feature needs to be added.
As already mentioned, the only other downside is fewer Sliders/Knobs. 4 + "Shift" 4, rather than 8.
Part, Arp select buttons only missed if they are integral to your performance workflow... as @Jason already stated.
The real trade-off equation is Weight vs UI for Live Performers. Many Montage owners have specifically bought a MODX for this very reason. Montage for Studio, MODX for Pub Gigs.
If I was in such a privileged position.... the MODX would be a no-brainer purchase (Guitarist here who long ago traded Multi-Guitar, Marshall Head&Cab centred Rig for a "Strat and a 1×12 Combo".
Gigs should be fun, not a logistical back-breaking ball-ache.
Posted : 11/01/2023 10:08 am
