If there are 10 Performances that use the same samples - but slightly different parameters - deleting 9 out of 10 of these Performances isn't going to free up the memory "hog" of samples.

All Performances stand alone. Deleting a Performance isn't going to affect other Performances. Yes, Performances can share waveforms - but deleting the Performance isn't going to rob another Performance of the shared resource.

The "best" way to free up space would entail understanding a bit more about how the Libraries are assembled and what you can keep out of the libraries that would leave samples behind. If you can use one set of Performances that all do not use a certain set of Waveforms (samples) - then using Library import would be the best way to assemble your slimmed down library (within the user area, then save as a Library).

However, you may want to be more surgical - like delete all references to the extra "noises" in pianos or e.pianos (key off, etc). Or leakage noise on organs.

Either way, you'll need to be able to account for Waveform usage somehow. If the library is huge - it may be a tedious process without using PC tools.

Organimation - 220MB (14 Waveforms)
KApro CS80 - 470MB (61 Waveforms) - Note pack list has more detail about waveforms
Montage Expanded - 345MB (102 Waveforms)

Montage Expanded has a lot of FM-X Performances. Those will not help reduce memory usage at all if deleted (goes for any Performance in any set if FM-X exclusively).

Just looking at the from the 100 foot level - Montage Expanded is probably easiest to carve up since it is a mish-mosh of collections from different sources. Deleting all related Performances should remove any references to that set's waveforms (assuming Library import method).

On the other end of the spectrum, Organimation will be difficult to get much reduction out of since likely most of the organs use the same set of samples and the whole set is "only" 220MB (the smalest) - so you get the least bang-for-your-work in trying to scale this set down.

I'm not sure what your goal is in terms of MB saved. That will also guide what approach you're going to have to make.

You should probably develop a list of what you like and do not like -- then take a 2nd pass to see how this relates to any memory saving. If this doesn't meet your goal - you're going to have to start making harder decisions on content.

However, you may want to be more surgical - like delete all references to the extra "noises" in pianos or e.pianos (key off, etc). Or leakage noise on organs.

I wouldn't recommend that... more complicated (esp. for a new user) and unlikely to save much space. Too much effort for too little benefit. Unless you're right on the cusp and desperate to find just a few mb somewhere.

Back to the main goal here, I haven't done this yet myself, but I suspect it would be hard if not impossible to get the results you're after without the John Melas Waveform Editor.

In order to make the most efficient use of the Flash memory, it is necessary to approach it by knowing the data you are working with and knowing how the instrument accesses that data. The overall goal is to only install the Waveforms you are actually going to use. Simply put, you want to avoid installing data that you’ll never use... that never gets recalled by a Performance you use. What you will do is select the Performances you will use and you will “Import” just those to your own custom Bank.

The origin of concept is borne out of the idea that it would be awesome if the user could construct their own Wave ROM. The decade that spanned the mid-1980’s to the mid-1990’s was the golden age of the Sampler. Samplers were an empty rack mounted unit that you filled (at great cost in time) with hand-picked data which you manually loaded into the unit each time you powered up. Because the wait times between “power on” and “play” could be measured in half-hour chunks, you can bet the data you selected to Load was meticulously hand-picked. You did not load any unnecessary data, ever! This dream of a custom Wave ROM lives on. You only want the data that you are going to use

Most sample libraries come with a variety of sounds, to satisfy the largest group of target customers. I do not believe in rating sounds *good or bad*, I look at them from appropriate to inappropriate for what I’m doing at the time. You’ll need to pick the sounds by the noting what Performances you like. If doing this manually, you will want to know what Waveforms are used in each. The “Library Import” feature will let you move and redirect each Performance to the User Bank and re-establish the relationship with a copy of the Waveform in the User Wave Bank. You would do this with each Library individually, importing just the Performances you desire. Using “Library Import”: By marking the Performance Name and executing the transfer in one operation, the MODX will avoid any duplicate Waveforms. Once you have trimmed the data to just those Performances and Waveforms you like, you can SAVE as a new Library File. Rinse and repeat.
You just need to pick the Performance programs you like, the MODX will do all the management of the Waveforms.
Because of the size of the files, each may have to be assembled separately (ie, starting fresh to prepare each custom Library).
The advantage of using the computer is you can prepare everything “offline” (using the computer’s RAM).

Melas Waveform Editor
Actually, the “best” way to manage the Flash memory of your instrument is using the “Melas MONTAGE Waveform Editor”... combined with a knowledge of how Waveforms and Samples are dealt with... this Editor will allow you to simply select the Performances you like, the Program will maintain all the Parent-Child relationships between Parts and the data used to make it play. And you can have it remove duplicates so you are left with just the data you require and nothing extra. The result is a file that you will be able to Load to your MODX.

The Waveform Editor is highly recommended, if you plan on working a lot with your Flash memory.

This is very helpful. Thanks for the feedback!

Is there a way to do this with the Bosendorfer download from Yamaha?

That includes 16 performances:

This content contains:
- 16 Performances
- 17 User Waveforms (409 MB)
File Format:
- MONTAGE Library file

1 Imperial Grand Piano
2 Mellow Imperial
3 Imperial PopRock
4 Dark Wooden Box
5 Two Grands
6 Imperial Digi Pad
7 Imperial Tines
8 Ambient Trailer
9 Imperial Breakup
10 Imperial Strings
11 Imperial Garage
12 In the Distance
13 Imperial Harpsichord
14 All Digital
15 Imperial Jazz Trio
16 The Extra Pianist

Can you just load the performances you want and not load the rest?

Or load them all and then delete the ones you don't want?

I believe you can load all the Performances and then delete the ones you don't want, but it won't save any space. Performances don't take space, the wave data does. And I suspect you need all 409 mb of wave data present in order to play any of the Bosendorfer performances.

Scott is correct... all of the Performances in the Bösendorfer Library use the same 409MB of Wave data. There is just one Bösendorfer Piano. There is no way to pare down the memory; if you like the Bösendorfer Piano then you’ll need the entire 409MB whether you like one or all 16 Performances. Same with the Chick Corea Mark V... all the Performances use the same Waveform sets. The seventeen Waveforms are used in each of the Performances.

If you were to combine all the other parameters of a Performance except the Waveforms, they use about 2KB of Memory, while the size of the Oscillator’s data is humongous by comparison. Use your local currency to compare 2,000 to 409,000,000 to get a true picture of the difference in size. Two thousand dollars you’ve likely held that much at one time — but unless you are very strong and very rich, it is likely you can’t even imagine four hundred nine million of anything!

Each note of the Bösendorfer is sampled several times (at different velocities) in Stereo. Could a piano be done more efficiently? Absolutely, but the goal here was “what if”... as in, what if you had the memory, how would you go about sampling an Imperial 209 Grand Piano?

There is more detail and nuance in these meticulously recorded instrument sounds... don’t use them if you are going to just bang out a rock epic... they will best be used where you are able to appreciate the nuance of the soft, medium soft, medium, medium loud etc., Waveform Sets.

There is more detail and nuance in these meticulously recorded instrument sounds... don’t use them if you are going to just bang out a rock epic... they will best be used where you are able to appreciate the nuance of the soft, medium soft, medium, medium loud etc., Waveform Sets.

The Bosendorfer samples are indeed beautiful.

The "problem" is I want to have my cake and eat it too 😉

I would like to have both the Bosendorfer and the Synthogy American Grand (American Steinway D) from Yamaha's website.

That way I would have three of the world's best pianos.

But that takes up a little more than the 1 MB in the MODX.

Reason to upgrade to the MONTAGE!

I would like to have both the Bosendorfer and the Synthogy American Grand (American Steinway D) from Yamaha's website.

That way I would have three of the world's best pianos.

But that takes up a little more than the 1 MB in the MODX.

If you have an iPhone or iPad, you can get the iOS version of the Synthology American D which runs within the Korg Module app. Cost is $70 for the combination of Module and the American D. The American D sample library for Module is about a gigabyte, so it should be reasonably quality-competitive with the version for MODX, The MODX has strong facilities for integrating external sounds like this into its Performances (use the Zone Master function), and you can even run the audio from your i-device back into the MODX. So you can have both pianos you want, and some MODX memory to spare for something else!

Reason to upgrade to the MONTAGE!

LOL, for an extra $2,100! (MODX8 -> Montage 8)

Yamaha should just do a firmware/software update and give MODX/Montage owners the Bosendorfer right on their keyboard - instead of giving it to us and having us install it ourselves and using up almost half (MODX) of the given user memory.

There are plenty of voices in the MODX/Montage that I am sure very few would miss in exchange for the Bosendorfer.

Sounds like a great plan! 😀

As another option to pile on the list is to use Samplerobot to refactor the Bosendorfer. No doubt, you will end up with something worse than the original in terms of response by using an automated approach vs. the manual labor originally involved in constructing the set. You can turn lots of knobs to decrease the amount of space a refactored version will take.

I'm not sure if Samplerobot was ever officially released for MODX or not. I don't think I ever saw an announce although I see several references out there of magazines/etc. saying MODX should use Samplerobot (Montage edition).

What I'm suggesting here, as a possibility, is to use Samplerobot on your own licensed content. Not that someone else should do this and send you a copy.

It might be nice if Yamaha took a page from the Nord playbook, and created some alternate Bosendorfer performances that didn't use the full 409 mb data set, i.e. make some smaller versions of the same piano available. I'm thinking about live rock playing, where as BM said, you might not need all the expressive nuance of the full version... but you still might just like the overall character of the sound. So there could be a Performance with fewer velocity layers, for example. (Though you'd probably want a more convenient way to remove the unneeded performances and waves than having to buy and learn the John Melas software.) Or maybe a mono variation would be useful, since some of us play live in mono anyway, and right there that could cut the file size in half. (That adds another complication though, as instead of being able to filter out waves you don't need in order to save space, the initial download would have to be even bigger since the current version doesn't include a mono sample set.) Maybe someday...

As another option to pile on the list is to use Samplerobot to refactor the Bosendorfer.

SampleRobot is very interesting...

Because now you can sample VSTs and save them as either a Montage/MODX library (.x7l) file or user bank (.x7u) file - and not have to use up the 1 GB of user memory...

If I understand that correctly...?