Interesting. I would agree with you that that is generally undesirable behavior, even though I imagine you could find use cases where it would be something you could take advantage of.

Even if the programmer was assuming that, if you want to switch the sliders to control 5-8, you must want to be playing something in parts 5-8 (a dubious assumption, as you've shown), there's no assurance that the sound you'd want would be the one in part 5, it could as easily be the one in part 6. I'd rather it not "guess" at all, rather than guess at something that has a decent likelihood of being wrong. I'd say, if I want to hear something in Part 5, let me select it! Which there are already multiple ways to do, i.e. via on-screen taps, or scenes... I'll be curious to see what others say, and whether maybe there is something else going on that is causing this behavior.

When I press the "slider bank" button, activating the bank "5-8", Part 5 gets automatically selected

That appears to be the case for any performance - even a 1 part performance will have the '5' slot selected even though there is no part in slot 5.

Using preset #1 with only part #1 having keyboard control changing the bank selects, but doesn't play, part #5.

So there may be something else going on with that particular performance.

I suggest you use the 'Contact Us' link at the bottom right of this page and report this as a bug.

Hi everyone.

On my MODX7, I have a multi-part performance, with 8 parts.
Here's the scenario: I have ALL parts un-muted, but only Part 1 has the Keyboard Control.
I have the slider bank set to 1-4, and the cursor is on the performance name (home).
When I press the "slider bank" button, activating the bank "5-8", Part 5 gets automatically selected, so that if I play the keyboard, that part will be played out (despite only Part 1 has "keyboard control").
What I would want is just being able to change bank and - for example - adjust Part 7 volume while keep playing Part 1.

You can continue to play your KBD CTRL Part (Part 1) and adjust the Volume on any Part, 5-16. Your error is thinking you need to switch “Banks” to 5-8 to address the Volume of Part 7. While true, the system offers a very cool method to accomplish this very thing… without changing the KBD CTRL Part (Part 1) you want to play.

Hopefully, the answer below will show you one of the reasons the Common Assign Knobs and Super Knob are so powerful. There are 8 Common Assign Knobs per Performance.
A Common Assign Knob can address any and even all 16 Parts. They are like mini-super knobs.
They can be linked or unlinked from the Super Knob as you may require. They allow you to have control over Parts you do not *select* directly - select a Part directly means you are playing that Part. If you are KBD CTRL with a Part and the other Parts are backing… you can use a single Common Assign Knob to adjust volumes of all of your backing Parts

If all you need to adjust is Part 7 — we’ll cover that below — but trust me you can address any or all other Parts using the method shown. The method you speak about is normal behavior — selecting 5-8 puts you directly in touch with that group.

Instead of addressing Part 7’s Part Volume using the Slider (which as you’ve noticed, would require you *select* the bank 5-8), you can assign a Part Assign Knob to do the task… and then by linking that Part Assign Knob to the upper level Common Assign Knob… you will be able to address Part 7’s Volume while on the HOME screen playing your KBD CTRL’d Part 1.

The reason you would want to do this is because the Common Assign Knobs are available to you while you are on the HOME screen…

Make sure the [ASSIGN] button is lit

Select Part 7
Drop into [EDIT]
Touch “Part Setting” > “General” > move the cursor highlight to “Volume”
Press the [CONTROL ASSIGN] button
You will be asked to move the Controller you wish to Assign.
Turn one of the Part Assign Knobs.

You will be taken to Part 7’s Control Assign screen.
The screen will show all items assigned to this particular Knob. Ideally, you want just your Part “Volume” assigned. If other parameter Destinations appear… change the “Source” box to an Assign Knob that has no other parameter Destinations.

Set the “Curve Type” = Standard
Set the “Polarity” = Bi (Bi will allow you turn up and/or down from Part 7’s stored Volume)
Set the “Ratio” initially to +63
And Param1 = 5

Now turning this Part Assign Knob will allow you to control the Volume of Part 7
But you still have the issue that you must *select* this Part to access the Part Assign Knob.
We will solve this by linking this Part Volume knob with an upper level Common Assign Knob.

Find and touch the shortcut box “Edit Common Control Settings”… this takes you to the upper Common/Audio level of the architecture.

Here you can review the Common Knob assignments.
Turn the Assign Knobs to recall their assignment, in turn

From this screen you can follow how each Knob is directed toward the Part parameters. Knobs can control multiple Destinations (a maximum of 16) — I suggest when first learning keep it simple - assign your Volume to its own separate Knob. You want a knob with no other Destinations..

Find a blank “Destination” — a blank Destination will have a “+” symbol.
Tap the “+” to add a Control Assignment Destination

A default setting will appear, tap it to open the potential destinations…
You will want to set this to “Part” > “Part 7 Assign X” where X is the Part Assign that is set to control “Volume”

Take the time to change the Name of this assignment so that indicates what the knob is doing… for example “P7 Vol” for Part 7 Volume.

Now when you return to the HOME screen.
The Common Assign Knob you programmed will be available and labeled appropriately.

[STORE] and Name your Performance.

Extra Credit
By default, the Common Assign Knobs are linked to the Super Knob.
Since you just want to control Part 7’s Volume, no need to continue to link it to the Super Knob (you maybe using it for other duties).
You can unlink your “P7 Vol” Common Assign Knob from the Super Knob
From the Home Screen, touch “Motion Control” > “Super Knob” > here you can Unlink any of the eight Common Assign Knobs from the Super Knob.

Hope that helps… if you get stuck post back…

You can continue to play your KBD CTRL Part (Part 1) and adjust the Volume on any Part, 5-16.

I guess I saw OP being more concerned with this issue:

When I press the "slider bank" button, activating the bank "5-8", Part 5 gets automatically selected

Although your reply is helpful if OP was having the issue with adjusting the volume of part 7 I don't see how it relates to the issue of the automatic selection of the parta 5 slot when you change the bank selector.

Would you mind commenting on that issue as well?

I did already.

I did already.

Sorry - but I still don't see any mention by you as to why part 5 would get selected just by switching banks.

Please copy/paste the part of your earlier reply that addresses sthat.

I'm afraid I had the same reaction as Andrew. Yes, it is great that you showed the OP how to change the volume of a Part without running into the problem he's run into (and your ever-present knowledge of how to do these things is mind blowing!), but that still doesn't answer the question of why he is running into that problem in the first place.

Certainly, for what the OP wants to do, hitting a single button (the 5-8 button) and adjusting the fader for the desired part would be much simpler and faster than setting up what you described. It's something that could be done in about a second at any time, universally with all relevant performances (anything with more than 4 parts), even mid gig, with no advance configuration required. It's obvious, intuitive, and efficient. So that leaves us with the question of what purpose is served by having it work some other way.

You provided a useful workaround for the fact that what he was trying to do wasn't working, but as far as I could see, no rationale for why such a workaround should be needed, i.e. why switching your sliders to 5-8 should change which part is selected to be played. It doesn't seem very logical nor very beneficial that it should work that way. Are we missing something? Because if you did address that, like Andrew, I'm missing it as well.

Montage has a similar problem when switching the sliders from 1-8 to 9-16. I remember venting about this sometime ago but couldn't dig this up.

There's a lot of reasons why one would like activate a different bank than the default (1-8, 9-16 for Montage ; 1-4, 5-8, 9-12, 13-16 for MODX) without also selecting a Part. Unfortunately, there's automatic "stuff" that happens which does have consequences leading to having to employ workarounds.

I had also thought I authored an ideascale about this but scanned through all of mine and didn't find anything. Maybe there's already an ideascale that covers this. Or .. maybe neither and there seems to be a relatively good idea to author.

Goal: adjust Part 7 volume while keep playing Part 1.

In order to play your KBD CTRL designated Parts you need to be:
1) in what is called “HOME” position (the Performance Name is highlighted) or
2) If a Part is linked via the KBD CTRL icon into a Multi Part group, you are still able to play all linked Parts when you select any one of the group (all KBD CTRL Parts behave as one group)… if you select one of many KBD CTRL they all are capable of sounding.

__ If, however, you select, by touching any non-KBD CTRL Part slot, you are now playing that selected Part. You are no longer communicating with KBD CTRL group. As I state, that is true. And explains the behavior the original poster is experiencing.

If you think you can touch any non-KBD CTRL Part slot without selecting it, I can refer you to the basics of navigation (which is a fundamental worth going over again if this is not clear to you).

In order to have a system where you have the ability to control a Part you have not directly selected, or that is not part of your KBD CTRL linked group, it is the rather unique Control Assign matrix that is at the heart of this system.

If you think you can *select* Parts 5-8 which are, as I understood the post, not KBD CTRL’d Parts, without *selecting* them, I’m saying : that’s not how it works!

__ In order to select the view that shows 5-8, you are no longer “HOME”, you no longer are highlighting the Performance Name, nor are you still in communication with a KBD CTRL linked Part. None of the criteria is being met… (you have changed transmit channels)

That’s not how it works! I provided a way in which you can communicate with a Part to control its Volume without *selecting* it. (You don’t have to like it but this is how you can accomplish the goal). If it doesn’t work, let me know.

MIDI 101:
Another way to understand what is going on is:
The Sliders are represented by a MIDI Channel message CC7… (Channel Volume)
When you touch/select a Part you are, in fact, changing the Transmit Channel. Connect a MIDI Monitor if you don’t want to trust me.

When multiple Parts are linked by the KBD CTRL you are transmitting on each of the correspondingly numbered MIDI Channel; when you select any non-KBD CTRL Part slot, you can do so by either grabbing its Slider or by touching/highlighting the Part slot using the screen, you are now transmitting on that channel.

The reason what I described works is because assigning Part Assign Knob (which is still bound to a MIDI Channel) > and then linking the Channel-bound Knob to the “Common Assign Knob” is the Common Knobs use Sysex… so you do not have to be on the MIDI Channel to address the Volume of that Part. Sysex address any Part, any Channel, as the messages can be very precise.

Sorry, if this is deep… but that’s why I provided the details. This is the way!
Place you ideas in the appropriate place… but meanwhile, if you want to move on and get it working… all I can do for you is provide the proper way.

It is what separates linking/layering 8 Parts where they all are on the same channel (simple dumb layer) and what you have here. You can play one set of sounds (linked) and use your Common Assign Knobs and Super Knob to address any and/or all of the Parts 1-16.

I've definitely vented about this before.

It is beyond annoying. It's well into the infuriating zone. Especially because when you go back the other way, selecting the 1 to 4 Parts, Part 1 is not selected - the Performance is!!!

I don't see good reasons for this automatic selection of Parts 5, 9 and 13, especially since there isn't a shortcut to jump from these to the next part.

WORKAROUND that doesn't work!!!:

When you cycle to Parts 5 through 8, press the Up arrow key button to the right of the screen twice, this will take you up to the Performance Selection as focus. Be careful not to touch the jog dial or the Category button, as both of these are now live, ready to cause chaos.

But at least you'll now have Keyboard Control as you expect it to be, AND the volume sliders working for Parts 5 through 8.

NO

Slider control has reverted to the first four parts.

Why?

Because Yamaha?

[quotePost id=120719]In order to play your KBD CTRL designated Parts you need to be:
1) in what is called “HOME” position (the Performance Name is highlighted) or

[/quotePost]

What any normal person's going to want is that the Performance Name ("HOME") position be retained whilst cycling through Slider Control settings of the subsections of Parts.

You get that's what most people will want, right?

If you think you can *select* Parts 5-8 which are, as I understood the post, not KBD CTRL’d Parts, without *selecting* them, I’m saying : that’s not how it works!

With all due respect OP is reporting, and my tests confirm, that IS how it works.

1. Init Multi/GM
2. There are 16 parts
3. Only Part 1 has keyboard control
4. No parts are selected - you are at performance home
5. Front Panel Element/Operator switch displays 1-4
6. Press the Element/Operator button
7. Front Panel Element/Operator switch displays 5-8
8. Notice that Part 5 is now SELECTED

That is what OP is reporting. Why is the Modx selecting Part 5 just because the element/operator button was pushed?

IMO that is a bug.

Repeat steps 1-3 after selecting another performance to clear things out.

4. Select part 1
5. Press the Element/Operator button
6. Front Panel Element/Operator switch displays 5-8
7. Notic that Part 5 is again SELECTED
8. Press the Element/Operator button
9. Front Panel Element/Operator switch displays 1-4
10. Notice that Part 1 is NOT selected although at step 4 it WAS selected. Part 5 is also
no longer selected.

Toggling the Element/Operator button selects/deselects part 5 whether there are 16 parts or 1 part and without regard to whether any parts have keyboard control.

The empty part 5 slot is selected if there are less than 5 parts.

IMO that is a bug. I can't envision a valid 'that is how it was designed to work' scenario.

Unless I have misseds something the above is what OP is reporting. The volume issue was simply how OP discovered the problem existed.

... pressing [PERFORMANCE] (HOME) is my normal workflow for deselecting all Parts (which would have all of the keyboard control = ON Parts respond to piano key presses together).

To me, this isn't the problem (getting back to this state) since there's a one-button gesture that always works. It's more the other side of this where you want to view one bank of Performances and NOT select any Performance in that bank (keep the current selection - including any one Part selected or no Part selected).

[quotePost id=120726]... pressing [PERFORMANCE] (HOME) is my normal workflow for deselecting all Parts (which would have all of the keyboard control = ON Parts respond to piano key presses together).

To me, this isn't the problem (getting back to this state) since there's a one-button gesture that always works. It's more the other side of this where you want to view one bank of Performances and NOT select any Performance in that bank (keep the current selection - including any one Part selected or no Part selected).
[/quotePost]

You've completely missed the point of the "workaround that doesn't work".

One might forgive a Home button that reverts bank selection AND sets to Performance Selection.

Merely stepping up, out of the Part Selection to Performance Selection via the ArrowUp Key/Button (twice) should NOT change the Part Bank Selection.