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Crackle out of MODX usual?

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Hi all,
I am a bit confused about whether I need a DI box for my MODX et al. I got the advice to get some TS cables for my MODX outs when I complained about sound quality using TRS cables. So I got some GLS Audio TS cables going from MODX into my Presonus Firestudio interface. The main volume on the MODX is @ 50% and it tracks pretty softly (I get little ants on the track) to where I definitely need to increase either volume on MODX or input on the DAW by some 10db. And yet, at this anemic volume, when playing more vigorous chords, I get a crackle. I got 4 cables so I switched them around and now my other keys, P125, has caught the bug, and MODX still doing it.
Could it be that I need a DI box? The cables are only 10Ft short, brand new.
Are most people using DI boxes? Why are my keyboards crackling at whisper-level volume:( ?

Since I never used a DI box before I don't know if it is a highly recommended thing to have along with the MODX. Is MODX considered a hot instrument to warrant the automatic use of a DI box even though I don't use 30Ft long cables?

Now my interface has only two Mic inputs, so it'd be fine for using one (stereo) keyboard, but I need to use two keyboards most of the time. What would be the best option for me?, (and I don't have the budget for a $500 keyboard mixer).
Radial ProD2 is one candidate for one stereo keyboard or two mono keyboards. My FireStudio interface has 2 Mic inputs and 6 line inputs.

I'm thinking I need to get two ProD2s and use one for the MODX stereo (with XLR to XLR from DI to interface), and the other DI for my other keyboard with XLR to TRS cables going from DI box to the line inputs of the interface. Of course, that is getting pretty close now to the expense of a keyboard mixer. For an extra $100 I could get a Key Largo instead of two ProD2s.

Or I could get four Behringer ULTRA-DI DI400P for about $130 total, but I don't know how good they are for synthesizers.

I don't understand the logic behind going stereo out from the keyboard and then mono from the DI (see the attached diagram).
I'd get all these DI boxes, new cables, etc to improve my sound and I don't necessarily think that after all this going mono is the best compromise.

What would you do? Any thoughts are much appreciated.

Attached files

 
Posted : 03/09/2022 11:37 pm
Antony
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I don't know if I can provide an answer to your query, but will set out a stall with some insight that may help.

TRS (balanced) vs TS (Unbalanced)
---------------------------------------------------------
In theory, a TRS (Tip, Ring, Sleeve) cable should work in a TS jack socket (Tip and Sleeve only). Problems generally arise when the contacts inside the TS socket, don't align with the TRS plug. Short story, if it is a TS Socket (as per MODX), best use TS cables. So far so good.

TRS has the advantage of reducing noise. If noise (e.g. AC Hum) is not an issue to begin with, then TS cables (Standard Instrument Cables) should offer just as good quality... over shorter lengths.

So MODX -> TS Cables -> ????

????: This could be a pair of studio monitor speakers... which typically have TRS sockets, and/or combined TRS/XLR sockets. Back to the first issue... the socket contacts not lining up with the TS cable plug.

This is not an uncommon problem.

I first learned of this reading the User Manual of my Focusrite Scarlett 6i6.

I bought the 6i6 as a guitarist, before I had even considered buying a Synth, and was advised to do so because of their "universal" input Jacks. However they do it, you can plug whichever TS, TRS and XLR into the same socket, and the 6i6 figures it out (recognises the plug) and works.

Since buying a Synth, the 6i6 has remained useful. When I eventually got round to buying a pair of Presonus Studio Monitors, I was relieved to discover the 1/4" jack input was also equipped with TRS/TS recognition (the XLR is a separate input).

My MODX is TS, my Hydrasynth is TRS. All my effects are TS.

For simplicity, now, I only use TS... with no issues... be it MODX, Hydrasynth or Stereo Guitar Effects.

Short story.... MODX --> TS cables should work, but is dependent on what you are plugging it into.

What you are plugging into (DI, Mixer, Audio Interface, Amp, PA etc) should be dictated only by your needs, not by its Input Jack ability. Whatever it is you need, you just need to make sure it will "accept" TS cables.

One last point... MODX Master Volume is not absolute. There are many internal levelling locations inside the MODX (Google Gain Staging) which can/will affect the overall output volume, without even touching the Master Volume. Even with a "Quiet" Master Volume setting, clipping can still occur inside the MODX if your Gain Staging is too high.

Similarly, if your Gain Levels are too high in say a DI box, or a DAW Input, you can also cause clipping, even without high volume. This is a complex subject, and I recommend you read up on it.

 
Posted : 04/09/2022 8:18 am
Dragos
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Sure KeyLargo is a very nice, high end solution for a keyboard mixer.
But for your purpose you can just use a small mixer like a Yamaha MG06.
You can mix 2 or 3 stereo signals with it and get out a balanced stereo, and it costs less than 130EUR.

 
Posted : 04/09/2022 1:23 pm
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[quotePost id=118244]Sure KeyLargo is a very nice, high end solution for a keyboard mixer.
But for your purpose you can just use a small mixer like a Yamaha MG06.
You can mix 2 or 3 stereo signals with it and get out a balanced stereo, and it costs less than 130EUR.[/quotePost]

This would be great for me if it'd be able to output to two stereo channels. Obviously, I do not want to mix my two keyboards onto one track as they have vastly different needs. How would one be applying the same EQ, same effects, editing, etc., for two very different sounds, (which is what would have to happen if both are recorded on a single track)? I may have spoken too soon about the Key Largo since presumably it also has only one output of the general mix.

Some dealers list the MG06 with "2 x XLR, 2 x TRS Outputs -Main" (sweetwater), others say "1 Stereo Bus". Not sure if they contradict or agree. Meaning, that it could be either:
1. both the XLR and the TRS stereo outputs can only send a mix of all the input channels to one stereo track on a DAW, (in which case the existence of the TRS outs is only for monitoring), or
2. that you could choose stereo input 1&2 to output to the XLR Stereo Output, and the 3&4 (or 5&6) input(s) to output to the TRS Stereo output. So be able to output to 2 stereo tracks.

Is it 1 or 2?

Going a little further, I might even consider an MG10 for recording multiple instruments. But then I become puzzled: How/Why would anyone record a band (10 inputs with vastly different EQ/effect needs) on a single stereo track? That's certainly not my application. I need to have each instrument on a separate track.

Thanks.

 
Posted : 05/09/2022 6:33 pm
Dragos
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Eminent Member
 

It's 1.
It's a mixer and it outputs a stereo mix signal.
The 2 outputs are for the same signal, one is for monitoring other for feeding the signal in the PA mixer for live situations.

Yeah, your mention of the KeyLargo made me think you only want a mixer.

So, your best bet is to get 2 stereo DIs and feed their output in your existing audio interface.

 
Posted : 05/09/2022 6:57 pm
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I would suggest before you drop money on DI boxes or a mixer that you try to find the source of the crackles. You mentioned that you switched cables around and that both the MODX and your other keyboard were now crackling. If both boards are crackling the problem may be downstream of the new cables (TS). If headphones plugged into the MODX have crackles the problem is internal, if not it may be someplace downstream. Remove all the cables and try them one at a time between your keyboard(s) and your interface (left, right, both and on both keyboards) and see where the problem starts. And with a DI box, depending on the type-active or passive, your levels out of the box may be too low or too high and you'll need to adjust. Bad Mister wrote an article on "gain staging" on the "Learn" section of this site and you might want to check it out. Lots of variables involved to try to isolate the problem before spending your money. You may have done all of this already and if so sorry to repeat it all. Good luck with it!

 
Posted : 05/09/2022 10:52 pm
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Yes, just looked. The one by Howard Massey is gain staging. Perhaps the one by Bad Mister (Phil Clendenin, recently retired Yamaha synth tech specialist) was a reply to someone's question here-Phil did write one on levels in USB audio from keyboards but that wouldn't apply in this case. Crackles could also be power supply noise, either from the power input or running the audio cables too close to a noisy AC line. hope it can be straightened out.

 
Posted : 06/09/2022 1:54 am
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