[quotePost id=118808]I'd like to build a Performance with several Parts to be played on one MIDI channel from my Cubase DAW and my Clavinova piano. On my MX synth, that is a matter of ensuring all Parts have the same MIDI channel. The MODX doesn't permit this, so how might I achieve this apparently simple result?[/quotePost]Press [UTILITY] > touch “Settings” > “Advanced”

Set the “MIDI I/O Mode” = Single
Set the “MIDI I/O Ch.” = the Channel on which you want to play the MODX

The KBD CTRL Parts will all be able to Receive on the selected channel.

Ah. That's a solution of a kind but hardly as flexible as it is on the MX et al. It is effectively putting the MODX in MIDI Mode 3: Omni off, Poly. Is there a way (and I suspect there isn't) of having, say, two or three Parts responding on one MIDI channel, whilst the rest respond on their default channels?

Also, I find that when the MODX is in 'MIDI Rec on DAW' mode, I have to turn off each Part's Kbd Ctrl to stop an unpleasant feedback effect on the sound which makes it mushy.

This can be achieved by "mirroring" or rerouting of MIDI in most DAWs, but not in Cubase, it seems.

In most other DAWs, a track can be sent to other tracks which transmit to other MIDI Channels, and some DAWs make it even easier, such that a single track can send to multiple MIDI Channels at once.

In both of these ways, your Clavinova (or MIDI track) can be sent to as many other specific tracks as you like, each of which is assigned to send to another unique channel, that the MODX is set to receive and the DAW set to send, such that you can play as many Parts of a Performance as you desire, this way.

I don't understand why Cubase seemingly can't do this, and why Bad Mister can't straight up tell you that this is an odd limitation of Cubase.

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That mushiness is the keyboard playing the sound locally, and then MIDI going from your keyboard to the DAW, and back to the keyboard, and playing the sound via MIDI as well. There's a lag/delay in the MIDI routing that causes the muddiness and a general increase in loudness of that muddiness, too.

You can either turn off Local Control so that you don't hear that, and instead only hear the routed MIDI return being sounded, or turn off the DAW's sending of the routing back, such that you only hear the local playing of the sounds.

I've used Cubase to reroute MIDI channels in a fairly flexible way. Back when I was using plugins but the same could have been done natively.

I also have the iOS version of Camelot Pro that can do this too. There's a demo of using it for this purpose where Blake uses an MX as a MIDI controller and Montage (or MODX?) in Multi-Channel mode handing off the channelization to Camelot.

MIDI Solutions has an Event Processor (might as well get the plus) that can be programmed to do this. Bome tools can do this too. Basically, if you stick something with intelligence in the middle -- there's a solution. The effort required to configure varies.

Using Hybrid is good use especially if the shared MIDI channel is to be only externally controlled. Even echoing back MODX's keyboard keys to these channels (Parts 9-16, for example) is possible with extra configuration on the intelligence side (DAW, etc).

I'd love to have arbitrary Part-to-Part MIDI receive channel programmability. The state of affairs for likely the lifetime of Montage/MODX requires finding alternatives to this wish.

[quotePost id=118845]Ah. That's a solution of a kind but hardly as flexible as it is on the MX et al. It is effectively putting the MODX in MIDI Mode 3: Omni off, Poly. Is there a way (and I suspect there isn't) of having, say, two or three Parts responding on one MIDI channel, whilst the rest respond on their default channels?

Also, I find that when the MODX is in 'MIDI Rec on DAW' mode, I have to turn off each Part's Kbd Ctrl to stop an unpleasant feedback effect on the sound which makes it mushy.[/quotePost] Press [UTILITY] > touch “Settings” > “Advanced”

Set the “MIDI I/O Mode” = Hybrid
Set the “MIDI I/O Ch.” = the Channel on which you want to play the two or three MODX Parts on one MIDI Channel

The KBD CTRL Parts will all be able to Receive on the selected channel.
Each of the non-KBD CTRL Parts will respond on their default channels.

When working with a DAW you must determine whether you are recording multiple MIDI Channels simultaneously. If yes, then you must prepare your DAW for this type of multi channel record (mileage can differ depending on which DAW and which version).

Usually, (on this planet) you’ve always been used to recording using just one keyboard, transmitting on just one channel… as you have noticed this synth is a bit more advanced.

If you are going to break this one keybed/one channel-workflow by attempting to record multiple MODX/MODX+/MONTAGE Parts, and you don’t want what you describe as “unpleasant feedback effect”, you need to make sure your DAW is set to receive what you are sending.

The unpleasant sound is likely multiple channels of data being unceremoniously squeezed (merged) together by mistake (user error).

If recording multiple MIDI Tracks to your DAW, simultaneously, is a challenge… (and it ranks as a 9.75 on the MIDI difficulty scale)… I highly recommend you record your multiple Part MODX/MODX+/MONTAGE Performances to the instrument’s on board Performance Recorder… the built-in recorder is designed to record multiple MODX Parts simultaneously… easy as pie.

…then simply drag and drop it into your DAW as a .mid file via your USB connection using the MODX CONNECT utility.

Recording multiple Parts together not only jump starts your session, but can provide a more inspirational environment to be creative. The old one-by-one method is, well, what it is. (You can still work that way… IF YOU…
Start with the MULTI/GM Performance template and work with the KBD CTRL LOCK = ON

[quotePost id=118850]I don't understand why Cubase seemingly can't do this, and why Bad Mister can't straight up tell you that this is an odd limitation of Cubase.[/quotePost]

Perhaps because Yamaha owns Steinberg and so describing a limitation of its software is not encouraged here.

[quotePost id=118850]

You can either turn off Local Control so that you don't hear that, and instead only hear the routed MIDI return being sounded, or turn off the DAW's sending of the routing back, such that you only hear the local playing of the sounds.[/quotePost]

Setting the MODX to 'MIDI Rec on DAW' mode turns Local Control off, so that mushy feedback effect should not appear. It doesn't sound that way when being played remotely in any mode.

[quotePost id=118941][quotePost id=118850]I don't understand why Cubase seemingly can't do this, and why Bad Mister can't straight up tell you that this is an odd limitation of Cubase.[/quotePost]

Perhaps because Yamaha owns Steinberg and so describing a limitation of its software is not encouraged here.
[/quotePost]

If true, that's the worst possible reason.

[quotePost id=118941][quotePost id=118850]

You can either turn off Local Control so that you don't hear that, and instead only hear the routed MIDI return being sounded, or turn off the DAW's sending of the routing back, such that you only hear the local playing of the sounds.[/quotePost]

Setting the MODX to 'MIDI Rec on DAW' mode turns Local Control off, so that mushy feedback effect should not appear. It doesn't sound that way when being played remotely in any mode.[/quotePost]

Have you followed some of Bad Mister's advice about changing the MIDI mode?

If so, the reason you'll need to turn off KBD CONTROL is probably to stop the return signal from the DAW triggering the arps from the notes resulting from the arps... in other words, you might have arps playing arps.

Which would be muddy.

Can you put up with using Reaper just to record arpeggios, and then push the MIDI from there back to your works in Cubase?

If so, it'll be a lot less painful for both this and anything to do with complex MIDI arrangements, as it's truly, utterly customisable in terms of recording MIDI.

But absolutely horrid for editing MIDI. Easily the worst DAW for MIDI editing, in fact.

[quotePost id=118944]

Have you followed some of Bad Mister's advice about changing the MIDI mode?

If so, the reason you'll need to turn off KBD CONTROL is probably to stop the return signal from the DAW triggering the arps from the notes resulting from the arps... in other words, you might have arps playing arps.

Which would be muddy.

Can you put up with using Reaper just to record arpeggios, and then push the MIDI from there back to your works in Cubase?

If so, it'll be a lot less painful for both this and anything to do with complex MIDI arrangements, as it's truly, utterly customisable in terms of recording MIDI.

But absolutely horrid for editing MIDI. Easily the worst DAW for MIDI editing, in fact.

[/quotePost]Yes, BM's post on this thread and the much older thread are educational. It's strange that the brief description of Hybrid mode on p59 of the Supplementary manual does not mention the use of exclamation marks. I gather that these are to indicate those Parts which are allocated sounds and that are not linked to the I/O channel. Am I correct? If so, it would probably have been more logical to have used the mark for those that are linked, as it is likely they would be fewer.

Thank you. I've read your post #103917 from a thread about this two years ago that gives me a lot of useful information which is not in the Supplementary manual. Really good work. 🙂

—a Cubase MIDI TRACK records all incoming MIDI data.
This is perfect when you are transmitting on one channel… the one Track will record your one channel.

Where folks who get confused, get confused is — they forget that with the MODX/MODX+/MONTAGE you can be transmitting on as many as eight different MIDI Channels simultaneously.

It is still true: a MIDI TRACK records all incoming MIDI data.
And it is still true it takes only one Track to record all that data properly!!!

Each and every channel-oriented MIDI Event always includes the Channel number.
Where folks, like above in this post, get confused, is since they either don’t know or simply have forgotten… you only need one MIDI Track to record all 16 Channels of MIDI data. It is for convenience that you would separate them — nothing more.

The different Channel data does not have to be on a separate Track to keep it separated — that is handled by the MIDI Channel # which is embedded in the event.

Separate MIDI Tracks are not necessary to record separate MIDI Channels.
You only separate the data to separate Tracks for ease in editing and viewing.

You are playing multiple Parts with your MODX… and are simultaneously Transmitting on multiple Channels (something that is definitely different) simply engage one MIDI TRACK with the Out Channel set to “ANY”. This allows each MIDI Channel’s data to arrive in Cubase on its original channel and importantly it echoes it back Out on the Channel it came in on. Perfect.

Easy peasy. If you are playing a 5 Part MODX Performance your workflow is this
Create one MIDI TRACK
Set the MIDI In = MODX-1 (Port1)
Set the MIDI Out = MODX-1 (Port1)
Set the Out Channel = ANY
Place this one track in record — and play.
Stop when complete.
Playback

If you wish to see your data on separate Tracks.
Highlight the recorded data in Cubase
Go to MIDI > DISSOLVE PARTS > select “by Channel”
Cubase will divide (put) each MIDI Channel on its own Track… if you require editing or you selectively punch in, add new data to one part, etc.

Extra Credit:
If you have Cubase Pro (top-of-the-line version) Yamaha has created a easy to use Record Template:
Simply start a New Project
Open the MODX MULTI CHANNEL RECORDING template… this sets up each Track to Receive and Echo back only one Channel per Track… using the Input Transformer.
Say you are playing a 5-Part Performance… you can activate a Track #’d 1-5, one for each Part and record the SuperKnob and Common Assign Knob movement to its own dedicated Sysex Track. This functions like a mute-able automation Track.
No DISSOLVE PART function necessary.

Attend “Club Cubase” — free, they meet twice a week on YouTube!
Recommended: Learn your software, it makes life easier!!!
Highly recommended: Cubase Pro

If recording multiple Tracks is too difficult, I can highly recommend the on board Performance Recorder — it is designed to record multiple Parts each to its own dedicated Track. You can literally drag and drop the .mid data from your MODX Data Utility > Song or Pattern Folder into Cubase via USB cable!

BTW — An exclamation point always indicates an ERROR (there’s a conflict). In this case it is informing you you have selected a Channel already in use… please choose another!
This is described elsewhere in the documentation.

Learning other DAWs seems like a complete drain of time. But I've found it the best way to learn more about the audio world, and what is good at what.

Each DAW I've somewhat learnt to tangle with has made each other DAW more understandable and tolerable, too.

The first next one is the hardest to learn. Ableton/Bitwig probably being the most difficult as they significantly embrace new ways (outside the traditional timeline) in ways that aren't the same as Fruity Loops (FL Studio). Fruity Loops is the fruitiest and especially good at MIDI editing/composing. Cubase, Logic, Protools, Cakewalk, Reaper and a few others are pretty conventional, not much changed from the days of the Atari ST's approaches to track based timelines.

Reaper is (far and away) the most customisable and the second worst initial experience. Cubase, for me, is far and away the worst initial experience. It's superficially familiar and comforting, but nothing works as you might expect and finding how to do things is a constant source of research work. It's not discoverable. Reaper is like this, too, but at least doesn't hide that it's a high maintenance environment and wonky/clunky.

Cubase's subsequent licensing issues that (for me) plague updates of various things, and the company's attitudes towards their own licensing systems made me try to learn enough about Reaper to use it for MIDI... recording. At this, it is exceptional. Reaper is also the absolute best option for complex audio recording because it likes (needs) to be customised. So it's made to be customised, and this means there's few barriers to doing just about anything with it in terms of recording audio and MIDI.

You can make Reaper WORK TO/WITH your hardware and not have to worry about figuring out what needs to be changed on the hardware to record versus play versus transport and setup for live, etc. Just keep modding Reaper until it works the way you want, because it can be done.

Eg... there's no need to mess with the MODX/Montage MIDI modes of Multi-Hybrid-Single. Just leave it in Multi mode and configure the tracks to do as you please in Reaper. And you can make macro shortcuts and assign them to any key combinations to make new tracks and configure them how you want, and save templates specific to Performances etc.

Rendering down to Audio is good in Reaper, too.

Editing Audio in Reaper is also a dream, in terms of slicing and dicing. The effects system isn't so much fun and the way it treats plugins is a bit clunky. So I don't do anything other than slicing and dicing and a bit of mixing and timing in it. And it's insanely light and fast, which is not something I can say about any other DAW. For me, this is probably the single best feature of Reaper for quick editing of audio and messing with MIDI configs for recording.

NEVER attempt to edit MIDI in Reaper. It will drive you mad.

This is where FruitLoops used to be what I'd use for MIDI editing. But lately I've found that Ableton Live's MIDI editing and racks and clips approach is superior, in a LOT of ways, despite having a slightly lesser Piano Roll to the brilliance of the one in FL Studio.

And I find Ableton discoverable. If I think about how I'd like it to do something, it's often how it does it. Or a few experiments and I've found how it does it.

Bitwig was my gateway drug to the Ableton way.