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Loading Libraries and overwriting previous settings

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Topic starter
 

Ok, I'm sure this is a "duh" question...but here goes.

I've figured out that if I have two bands with two different sets of sounds/performances, then they need their own "libraries" and I have up to 8 slots for libraries that I can put in the MODX. So OK, now I have two libraries.

When I load the libraries, are they just adding to the previous set up? Band A is already in the Live Sets and has its specific Performances yada yada. Now I want to load Band B's. It appears no matter what I do, I'm still seeing Band A's performance and Set List. Is that just what it does? Or am I missing something? Does that mean if I, for instance, add three more libraries for 3 more bands, they'll just keep stacking up?

Ultimately, I want the specific library that I'm loading to overwrite any previous performances and live sets.

 
Posted : 06/02/2020 3:36 am
Jason
Posts: 8221
Illustrious Member
 

Adding Libraries doesn't overwrite anything.

Libraries can have their own Live Set pages - just like the user area has its own Live Set pages.

So while performing with Band A - you would want to recall the Live Set associated with the Library slot you loaded Band A's Performances into.
And while performing with Band B - you would want to recall the Live Set associated with the Library slot you loaded Band B's Performances into.

This does require properly handling the Live Sets before creating your Library. When creating your Library, you would start with all of the Performances for a given band in the user area. And you should also customize the Live Set for that same band to point to Performances in the user area. Then when you save a Library file - the user Live Set should "convert" to a Library Live set. Once a Library Live set is "baked" into a Library - you cannot make changes to the Library Live Set.

https://yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/montage-live-sets

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 06/02/2020 7:56 am
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Forgive my ignorance here but I'm still confused.

Am I understanding that Band A's info will always be there (performances, live sets) even after I load Band B's info? And Band C, and Band D etc...?

For example,

I have Band A and I have a Performance for "Sweet Dreams". Now, I've loaded Band B and I have a Performance for "Interstate Love Song". It appears that Sweet Dreams AND Interstate Love Song are now "loaded"....along with Band A's set list. Although I haven't created a Live Set for Band B yet, I expect both will show up. Is this what I should expect?

You may have answered this, but I'm dense. πŸ™

 
Posted : 06/02/2020 10:33 pm
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Although I haven't created a Live Set for Band B yet, I expect both will show up.

If you haven’t created a LIVE SET for Band B, then it will NOT show up. If YOU haven’t created it how could it possibly show up?

Hard to see what you are not understanding.
When you go about creating data for Band B, create the LIVE SET for Band B before creating the Library file.

Each installed Library will have its own Performances, its own Live Sets, its own User Arps, its own Motion Sequences, etc., etc., etc.

 
Posted : 06/02/2020 11:11 pm
Jason
Posts: 8221
Illustrious Member
 

I don't know what you're most familiar with in the MODX system. I'm going to assume, however, you're mostly familiar with the user area. As this is the only area you can edit parameters and make changes. It's the only area you can setup the Live Set.

The user area is an area where you can change/edit/modify/create/delete the following:

User Performances
User Arpeggios
User Motion Sequence
User Curves
User Micro Tuning
User Live Set
User Waveforms

Then, you turn your user area into a library file. When you do this, it "copies" your user area into a library.

Library Performances
Library Arpeggios
Library Motion Sequence
Library Curves
Library Micro Tuning
Library Live Set
Library Waveforms

So think of a library FILE as a snapshot of your user area ready to install in one of 8 Library slots.

Since you cannot edit the Library area after you install it - you HAVE to make sure that your user area is complete before creating the library area. This means having a Live Set that is meaningful if you want the library to have the "right" Live Set.

Also, when you install a library file - it doesn't touch any other area. It doesn't touch the user area (Performances, Arpeggios, Motion Sequence, Curves, Micro Tuning, Live Set, Waveforms) nor does it touch any of the other Libraries. You can have 8 installed and installing a Library places the Library FILE in one of 8 Library slots (the first open slot - until all 8 are filled).

... so if you're setting up for Band A - first you make sure the USER area has all the right Performances in the user area. The Live Set should be correct in the User area pointing to each Performance in the user area for Band A. Same goes for motion sequence, curves, waveforms, etc. The User area should be "self contained" with all data in the user area appropriate for Band A. When you create a Library file - "Band A.X8L" - this Library FILE will have everything Band A needs - Live Set - everything.

... next, you can totally clear out the User area since you've already saved the file which represents everything that was in the user area (as a Library file).

... and for Band B - you need to setup all Performances for Band B in the USER area. Redo the Live Set for Band B to point to all these new Performances. Setup everything else in the user area for Band B. The User area should look like exactly what you want for Band B. You're going to want to create a second Library File - "Band B.X8L". This Library FILE will have everything Band B needs - Live Set - everything.

You can again clear out the user area since the Library File has everything you need. You don't need Band B both in the Library and User area.

Last, you can INSTALL (better known as "load" in the interface) both Library files. When you load "Band A.X8L" - it won't overwrite anything. When you load "Band B.X8L" it won't overwrite anything. You'll have Band A's Performances and Live Set in a Library slot named "Band A" (because Library slots are named the same as the filename) and you'll have Band B's Performances and Live Set in a Library slot named "Band B".

This is the system.

The summary is that Libraries are carbon copies of your user area (Performances, Live Set, Waveforms, curves, micro tuning, motion sequence, arpeggios) created at the time you Save a Library File.

Libraries are transplanted user areas. So you have to make sure before you transplant that the user area is setup correctly - by you - with all information you'll need. Because you can't muck around with the settings after transplant. Once you create a library - the only option you have to change that Library slot is to erase the Library Slot. You can't edit anything in the Library area.

If you want to be able to change BOTH Band A and Band B's performances - then you'll have to come up with a system that works within the limitation of Libraries (they cannot be changed). It's possible - but you have to do lots of "shuffling".

If this was my situation - I'd probably just keep everything in the user area and use a different range of Live Set pages for Band A vs. Band B. And maybe use Live Set colors so Band A are all in one color and band B in another color - to help keep things straight. Because the system is NOT a collection of folders that allow for organizing data AND freely edit the data. Therefore - it's inefficient if you need to edit both band A and band B frequently.

Even adding Performances is inefficient if you're dealing with Libraries. Because you can't do anything with a Library except for erase it. If you want to add Performances - you have to clear your user area and IMPORT all Performances from the Library area you're wanting to add to. This IMPORT will transplant the reverse way - FROM Library TO User. The other option you have is to always create a USER file (X8U) at the same time you make a Library File. This is what I would do. Then you don't have to do an import. You could also just load the X8U user file which will also place all the Library Performances back into the user area. At any rate - once your Band A (or Band B) Performances are all in the user area (by IMPORT or by loading the User File) - you can add new Performances to the user area. And change anything you want - add a Live Set entry for the new Performance(s). Edit existing Performances. Delete some. Anything. Then save a new X8L (Library file) for the new snapshot of the user area with new content. Erase the original Library slot for the band you're updating (A or B) then load the new Library file with added/modified content. That's one form of "shuffle".

Just think of Library files as user area snapshots. So make sure you have the right "stuff" in the user area when you make a snapshot. You can't go back in time and repose for a picture.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 10/02/2020 2:48 am
Bad Mister
Posts: 12303
 

Your Performance Banks can be thought of as ROM or RAM.
ROM is Read only Memory β€” includes the factory Performances and installed Libraries
RAM is Random Access Memory β€” is the User Bank, work area.

The User Bank is the equivalent of a manuscript you are working on.
The Library File (.X8L) is like the manuscript in its completed form.
Once you load the Library File (install it to one of eight locations in the instrument), your book has been published and placed in the Reference section of the building (instrument)... where you can β€˜refer’ to it. You cannot make a permanent change to your published book in the Library! That’s called creating a β€˜second edition’, which is basically a reprinting of it, you are creating a new version... this means using the β€œLibrary Import” function β€” which places it back in Random Access Memory where you begin to rewrite the data ... and create a new manuscript for publishing.

You publish it by saving the User Bank as a new Library File (.X8L) and then installing it... which will replace the first edition. You must manually DELETE, that first edition, and then load your newly created second edition.

Hope the reason for calling it a Library helps.
User = your draft
Library = finished edition.

 
Posted : 10/02/2020 12:23 pm
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Thanks guys.

That all seems quite confusing, but I'm going re-read everything and try to dissect it.

 
Posted : 11/02/2020 8:23 pm
Jason
Posts: 8221
Illustrious Member
 

It takes a short story rather than a sentence to explain how the system works in order to convey the background necessary to effectively use the system.

Once you internalize this information - it's fairly simple to understand and retain.

Still - it's a bit clumsy in terms of being intuitive and also in terms of how much time and how many steps the user has to expend doing many "basic" operations.

Hang in there.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 13/02/2020 8:07 am
Posts: 0
Eminent Member
Topic starter
 

Nope, I really really REALLY don't like this filing system. AT ALL. I'm about ready to ask for my money back.

NOW, I have sometimes four instances of the same performance. NOW, i can't make any edits to my LIVE SET.

This is just ridiculous.

 
Posted : 19/03/2020 12:01 am
 Paul
Posts: 0
Active Member
 

If all else fails for what you want. Just make backups and title them with the band's name.
Now you'll completely replace the previous setup and everything else. A little drastic, but effective.

 
Posted : 19/03/2020 1:30 pm
Jason
Posts: 8221
Illustrious Member
 

I've voiced my differences with the file system - so I think there is room for improvement here.

I do think there are some pitfalls and the GUI doesn't hold hands sufficiently to avoid these.

The only way to "deal" is to educate on what the filesystem does and how. This way you won't be painted in the corner not being able to modify a Library that you would want to.

You can modify Live Sets all you want in the User area. But you cannot modify anything in the Library area. So make sure before "freezing" your data into the Library area - that it's really polished. That you're not going to need to change it. If you're going to be changing things - leave this in the user area.

This is why I've always left everything in the user area. I have history of not using the Library area - and some pushback for electing to do this. But I really don't want to play games with memory in order to make edits. I'm always tweaking.

The only things I have in Libraries are "finished" sound libraries like the Chick Corea set.

I'm not sure I'd throw out the baby with the bathwater - but do learn how to most effectively use the system after learning how it works.

Current Yamaha Synthesizers: Montage Classic 7, Motif XF6, S90XS, MO6, EX5R

 
Posted : 21/03/2020 3:10 am
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