One shot samples will translate nicely into drum keys. You can have an ARP play the samples. The fadeout can be handled by motion sequence if the number of bars is short enough that the longest sequence (w/o loop) is the right length to cover the span.

Or you could, instead of motion sequence, use a MIDI file to play the samples. Samples would use the same drum part as above - but just triggered using a MIDI file instead of an ARP and the MIDI file is set as a user audition for your Performance. Then press the audition button to start.

Or you could use a MIDI file and use Perf+Song. Live Set can assist here too. Recall the Perf and press the "Play" button to begin playing the song ("MIDI" ) file to trigger the samples.

Either audition or song methods would have the fade recorded in the MIDI file - so there would be a set number of bars then fade.

You could probably even setup a looped ARP to play the sample(s) and have the band plugged into the A/D input and use envelope follower to create a sort of feedback loop that ends up closing off the level of your sample Part. The ARP would play forever - but once A/D input rises above a threshold level - the looped ARP would diminish down. I believe it could be done - but not as easy to setup as any of the above.

Hi J,

thanks for your input.

Apologies for the wierd question, I realise this is not the intended use of the MODX.

Reading your advic,e I think the minimum will be 2 interactions, whichever method you suggested. "Fire and forget" does not seem possible.

I thought this would be the case.

I have a FC7A, so we will use that for the fade... as in keep the sample looping, just fade out the volume.

I will take a look at the Song/MIDI method also... this could solve a few other issues.

All of the suggestions are "fire and forget" in this sense: you press a single button then walk away and the rest is automated.

Some suggestions the "button" to press is a piano key - the ARP (and, depending on the solution, possibly also motion sequence) trigger.

There's a suggestion that the "button" is the play button in the transport section (play/stop/rewind/etc).

There's a suggestion that the "button" is the [AUDITION] button.

What are the two actions needed? Yes, you'll need to recall the Performance. You can't get around that. Unless your keyboard turns on and the desired Performance is the default.

You don't have to use the FC7 if you automate the volume decrease as suggested. But if you don't want/need that automation - and would rather use manual control - then this is simplified. Just loop the playback through an ARP, MIDI file (Audition or Song file) and do the foot-control thing for fade.

... and the MODX is intended to be used in any manner that helps you make music. All of this is perfectly well supported. That you have multiple choices to do essentially the same thing means it was certainly built to support this demand.

If you choose the transport "play" button option (Perf+Song) then you can assign the footswitch (such as an FC5) to "Play/Stop" and not hit any keys or buttons at all. Just press the foot pedal to start and let it go. This is a global setting - so the footswitch would be tied to Play/Stop which may be fine if you do not already use the pedal for something else.

Starting with the first option, doing this via Arp

@Jason this is NOT an easy thing to do. The manner in which someone might create an Arp on the Montage/MODX is so contrived and discombobulating that it will take someone new to this days of pain to get the muscle memory to do this right for a simple operation like this, and they still won't understand why all the steps need to be taken the way they are. Creating Arps for the MODX/Montage is one of those things you either fully understand, or not at all.

Could you break it down? Including the fade out?

All of the suggestions are "fire and forget" in this sense: you press a single button then walk away and the rest is automated.

Hi Jason,

I am failing to understand the "automatically fade" mechanics in your suggestions.

I can see how they can all be used to Play, then Stop.

The fade, or gradual decrease in volume to zero, is the bit I am missing.

In any of the scenarios I described the samples may be several seconds long, and would likely need to loop 7 or 8 times before fading out.

I think this makes Motion Sequencer not possible.

Assuming I could find an ARP that fits the scenario, I still can't see how it will fade.

Recording 8 bars looped and faded in a DAW and then importing that to MODX would work, but this puts increased pressure on the User memory. Avoiding doing this is why I asked in the first place.

Its no big deal. We'll just use the Vol/Exp with single sample looping.

I'm also looking at my Boss RC300 as I write this... I forgot I had this (quietly sitting in its box unused) This might be the best option.

Hello Anthony

I think this approach may work for you on Money.

First make a one bar loop of the 7/4 in whichever sample editor you may have
Load that looped waveform into an element of an AWM2 part
Set the AEG with all levels at 127, and release at around 107 plus.
The loop can now be triggered at full volume by holding the key down and then it will fade out slowly when released when the band comes in.
If the second guitarist cannot keep the key down because of other commitments then a sustain pedal would allow that to be done hands free

To generate a song file that has the fade inside I would:

1) Use the MIDI Performance recorder to record myself playing the drum part that triggers the sample. Say middle C is the cash register sound. I would tend to bring the tempo down when recording things like this in order to help precision - make sure the Part level slider is at the correct "max level" position.
1a) Press the "Record" button - select "Play/Rec" -> "MIDI" menu
1b) Change time signature to 7/4, you can change the quantize to quarter notes since you're holding for 7 beats on the downbeat of each measure -- or however you end up scoring this.
2) Press the play button to start the recording process. On my keyboard, there's a 2 bar count-in. This is configurable. Watch the count-in and then start playing. For me I just played on the downbeat of every measure and held for 7 counts and played this over and over for about 11 measures. Play as long as you like
3) Press the Stop button once you've recorded enough.
4) At this point, I rename the song to "Money" so it's easier to identify later
5) Although you could have done the "ride the slider" thing at the same time - I didn't. I elected to take a second pass.
5a) Be sure not to exit after the 1st recording. If you do, you'll just need to load up the "Money" song you saved/renamed in step 4. No need here if you didn't exit.
5b) I pressed the [PART CONTROL] button so that the sliders were adjusting Part levels (and not element levels) Make sure the slider is all the way up to start with.
5c) Also, I changed the measure to measure 8 - the start of where I'm going to record the fade
5d) Just press record. There's an option to Replace or Overdub. Choose overdub
5e) Press play - again you'll see the measure count-in you have configured. When the count-in is done, I took slider 1 and started slowly decreasing. from measure 8 through measure 11. I didn't press any notes. There's no need. I'm just overdubbing the controls here.
6) Press stop for this pass once done

Now you've got a song inside your keyboard that automatically fades and plays the sound effects with the fade you want as long as you load the song on top of the Performance that has the money sound effect as Part 1 (or, at least, that's how I did it - this is up to you). The way to couple songs (MIDI) with Performances is Song+Perf. Live Set can help here.

If you want motion sequence to change the volume, then I go into the Part's motion sequence and edit it. There are lots of options here how to get this done. Quick and dirty I can make the fade timing relative to tempo and change the unit multiplier to 2400% - this will start fading after about eight 7/4 measures. Each step (except the last) I use hold as the pulse type. Using the sliders, I push all of the 1st holds up to maximum 127. I set Cycle=16. Starting with the second half of the pulses, I start to set each down off of 127 a bit so you see the hold bars gradually decreasing. #16 I choose a standard pulse and set it reverse so it ramps down and match up the level so the top of the ramp starts at #15's level. Turn loop off for this sequence.

That's MS Lane 1.

Then under the "Part's Mod/Control"->"Control Assign" set MS Lane 1 as the source controller and Part Volume as the destination.

That's how the volume is automated using motion control. Using this, you would have also setup a looping/HOLD ARP or similar to keep playing the money effect sound over and over.

I didn't say anything was "easy" - but I gave a very high-level overview of (some of) the options at first. A synthesizer requires programming - so it's important to get comfortable with the fact that setting things up (one time - then save) is part of the process. The first time you set something up you haven't tried before may seem like it takes a while and is difficult. Gradually it becomes more intuitive and the process is much faster and you're able to do a lot more with the equipment overall.

Hey all,

thanks for your responses.

I think the bottom line here is the MODX was designed to be played and not shoehorned into fitting some alternative purpose. This is no fault of Yamaha's. I actually found on YouTube Synth Tips how an automated fade can be triggered to occur while the keyboardist carries on playing normally (Motion Sequence and MS Trigger button). This covers 100% of all reasonable expectations and situations. There are no hard feelings from me.

The good news is (as far as our 2nd guitarist is concerned) my Boss RC-300 Loop Station is designed to do exactly what I ask. I had forgotten this function existed because I only ever used the Live Looping functions. A quick re-read of the user manual confirmed this. It will play a preloaded sample, loop it for a set number of bars, then fade it out (you can even set the fade ramp/curve). This is the "fire and forget" aspect I needed. Plus it is all pedal-board controlled so you don't even need to take your hands off the guitar.

Thanks.

It's no shoehorn to use features to your advantage. If it's outside of your comfort zone - there is shared responsibility here. Maybe the interface isn't as accessible as it could be. However, it's much improved vs. previous generations in terms of ease of use. The other part of the shared responsibility is your own commitment to learn the system.

This is not a slam - and if you're preferring to play the presets and skim the surface of programming (so called "snorkeler" vs. deep diver) then this is supported too. There are a variety of presets (Performances, ARPs, etc). There's no need to program the synth if you don't want to. This does limit somewhat what you can get out if it.

I wouldn't say the device wasn't built to do (6 ways from Sunday) exactly what you've asked for.

Hi J,

Deep Dive is where I want to be, just not had the time thus far to get there.

I'll keep all suggestions on file, I am sure they will come in handy for some other application.

Incidentally, reading everything above helped me "discover" all the Sequencer stuff that's been hiding in the Supplementary Manual.... which I've only just got round to reading. I don't know how I managed to miss this... I had an A4 sheet printed out which had the OS upgrade instructions and patch release notes. I presumed this was the Supplementary Manual... obviously it isn't.

Cheers,

T

That's another one of those "once you know" items. Each supplementary manual ("sm" - previously called new features "nf" ) serves as an appendix to mostly the reference manual. Each firmware release contains the supplementary manual inside - and also the MODX download page has the supplementary manual for direct download. I know you're now hip to this - but just lay it out for the benefit of others.

It's easy to forget to skim through the SM. I sort of wish the original documents would be updated - but I also understand how it's easier for Yamaha to manage overall without editing the master documents. There's certainly lots to explore.