If comparing non-modeled instruments, I believe the Montage features are fairly close to other keyboards. There is both sample release capability as well as samples that only trigger when the key is released (such as key return noises). I'm not sure, from a "nuts and bolts" perspective - there is anything more needed to replicate how the Nord has done its sampled pianos. There can be a difference in how the samples were assembled or technical choices made between the two.

I do not have access to a Nord and did a quick search on Nord staccato notes without finding much. I did find gory details on a few different flavors of Korgs. Here, there are some differences in both how/where effects can be applied as well as differences in articulations (XA control-like). So beyond sample playback and "key-off" noises, there may be other differences in terms of possibilities of different articulations or effects. Certainly, sympathetic string resonance - something that requires more of a modeled approach than currently offered - needs to be ignored because this is certainly a difference and not something I can see being added.

I’m planning to clone the piano samples of Nord when the samplerobot for montage released. I think the difference is due to modeling of piano. The sample size is not an issue for quality I think

I had a Nord Piano 2 for a long time and always liked the Nord Piano sounds better than the Montage sounds. Funny enough, for practical reasons I started using the Montage exclusively a couple of months ago. When I then revisited the Nord I found out that I now like the Montage Piano better. I sold the Nord at some point. For me it seems this is a bit of getting used to the sound. Also it changes sometimes on a day to day basis which sound I prefer. So maybe give the Montage a chance and see...

Note also that you can switch off the sympathetic resonance in the Nord. You could do that for a comparison to see if that’s making the difference for you. And also it may make sense to do that when you sample it.

although nord piano sounds are very nice, you're right. in most instances montage is more capable, for example it has a buiit in audio interface (32 channel mono out) nord is a stage device and it makes feel his limitations on studio work. However adding organ and piano engine to this massive synth must not be so hard with software update...

Piano sample differences are subjective. However, sample playback capabilities are not. If one keyboard has different features in the engine which translate to a difference in capabilities - then it's possible that one instrument will not be able to accomplish what another does no matter what you're able to sample/craft on the content side.

I've downloaded the Nord sample editor to try to see if there are any "tricks" I do not see in what I can glean from what Montage has.

Nord has cross-fade at the sample level. I'm not sure this is a parameter with access to modify on-the-fly or not. Montage has crossfade at a different level - so you can do crossfade with PAN automation (Motion Sequence). However, it's a slight difference in the lower-level functions. Since I believe each sample gets its own cross-fade setting - I believe there is slightly more control in Nord than Montage of this feature. PAN on Montage cannot PAN at the sample level - but can at the element level (which, on Montage, may be multiple samples).

Nord has something called "loop length variation" - which isn't well documented exactly what this does. I haven't been able to find suitable documentation. Montage doesn't have something similar. Loop lengths are fixed to the values assigned. Motion control doesn't touch loop points.

Nord has the ability to phase adjust. Phase is something that the Nord engine spends a lot of "resources" trying to deal with. Montage doesn't have similar knobs to turn at the Waveform level. Phase would be something you have to deal with prior to sample playback and adjust phase of the recorded sample itself. Real-time control of phase (if available on Nord - not sure) might be interesting to exploit. I doubt it is something you can change over time. Given what you can do at the sample level before playback - I'm not sure there is a benefit to this feature in Nord.

I haven't dug into Nord's "sample gain" - but I imagine it is the same as level in Montage. There's a global and individual sample gain in Nord. I believe this is parity with Montage. At the sample level, Nord allows for "keyboard gain" which are 8 inflection points where one can assign positive or negative dB vs. nominal gain. The resulting gain curve is not smoothed - the gain ramps are linear resulting in triangular or ramped gain regions. What this ends up doing is giving ranges of the keyboard (piano keys) that can either be trimmed or boosted with gradual trim/boost differences from key to key. There's not exactly a parallel level of control in Montage except to use envelope follower (Motion Control) which comes at the cost of polyphony and PARTs in Montage. Some of this is available in Montage - just not the same amount of control on a key-to-key basis.

Nord marketing touts something called "long release" for piano samples. I didn't see anything in the sample engine (looking at the editor) that would tell me there's any real magic here. Any content past the loop point is part of the release and I believe both instruments are capable of setting a loop point before the very tail of a sample and are able to have what one would regard as a "long release".

In conclusion, although I see some differences - I do not see any show-stopping differences that would disable Montage from having a piano of nearly identical features as Nord. This is ignoring sympathetic string resonance.

Jason, please note that the Nord Pianos have two different parts: the sample engine and the piano engine. While the piano engine is obviously also based at least to some extent on samples, you as a user cannot create pianos. So I think they have something more than just what the waveform editor provides. Like sympathetic resonance and the long release. I believe they some level of modelling as well. Not sure, but why would they keep the two separate and not allow users to generate pianos...

I saw the "models" language for pianos - but it wasn't clear if that meant modeled or just models such as piano types/manufacturers. There was some verbiage about all pianos able to be replaced - so I thought one could overwrite the pianos with something else (even if they all have to come from Nord). I guess the extent of what you can replace in the piano section are the different sizes of samples and features (S, M, L, XL).

String resonance is sampled - so all of what I see would leverage the sample engine. Looking at the sample editor is the best I have to glean capabilities.

The organ engine uses modeling on the 5D - I do not see anything to suggest the pianos use anything other than samples (ROMpler).

The sampler files and piano files are in a different format - so there may be other "special sauce" for the piano. Certainly - how/when the sympathetic string resonance samples are played are part of this. There are probably extra fields for that and the mechanical noise rules. So I would agree the sample editor is a blunt tool to make inferences about the piano engine.

It's merely speculation that whatever properties the OP likes about the Nord piano sample can likely be duplicated if a sample house was so inclined to mimic the release and staccato response.

There have been no sound clips provided/pointed to - so most of this is a shot in the dark. For all I know, tweaks of the AEG and FEG can be made to duplicate what the OP is after. There's no real basis for determination.

Dear Mr. Jason . I think, we can't create piano programs using piano engine on nord. Nord sample part is different from piano engine. for example on nord electro (sample part is 256 MB, piano part 1 gig ) It is so basic and its capabilities are lower than montage. I have watched many videos about Nord and Korg kronos videos for this staccato realism which is not found on montage. it si the ''note release'' function. Iwill give the video link : https://youtu.be/cuAxMHxUVTM. on this video ( time 8:42) note release gain gives the same quality as NORD engine. I have tried this by manipulating Amp Envelope generator by the key attack strength. Do you have any idea. this function can be done by software update. thanks. I haver circled this function on attached Jpeg file. My another theory is that this note release function may be an additional layer of sound (short string resonance noise as l the piano hiitng sound by holding the strings with your hand) coming shortly after the staccato sample.

Korg is possibly different. With Korg - there's slightly more information here. Perhaps the large sample sizes in Nord are to implement pianos similar to Korg which uses no loops for its piano. Korg has continuous samples.

The circled parameter is a volume offset. AEG may be able to take care of this or there's also a way to offset release using motion control. If using motion control - this would take more resources than something that is at the per-sample level.

If the realism boils down the the sympathetic string resonance - then this would be a "cannot pass go", "game over" difference.

Hello - pianos are my primary love as a sound producer. Montage is intended as a synthesiser, and I think that Yamaha have left all its sounds not-quite-finished for us customers to play with. Compared to a Tyros, where the sounds are finished, rounded out, ready for use, because the Tyros is a music machine and not a synthesiser. The 'release' phase on Montage is particularly odd (in many cases) where it starts to die away reasonably, then suddenly drops off to nothing. It is up to the customer to customise the sound to suit his/her own preference.

The most incredible piano sounds are mathematically modelled - not a sample in sight - by a company named 'Pianoteq' whose engine can emulate just about anything and then some - how about a 30' Grand? But the Montage is more interesting ...